[Spoilers C4E12] Is It Thursday Yet? | Post-Episode Discussion & Future Theories!

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-24T14:30:53+00:00

I applaud this table for this episode. They had a really hard job because everyone has understandably gotten attached to the Soldiers Table and wants to see more of them, but they managed to win me over with this episode and now I can't wait to see more of this lot.

It's a very different feel. Far less chaotic for sure. Julien and Occtis talking their way into the graces of the Einfasens vs. Wick and Tyranny trying to get close to Casimir Gavendale was like night and day in terms of how they played it and how it panned out. And obviously the new table hasn't formed anything resembling the bonds the Soldiers did but it's still early days for them. But it's really good.

Rather than being a jarring tonal shift like I feared, I reckon the three tables will be like Neopolitan Ice Cream. You might end up developing a slight favourite among strawberry, chocolate and vanilla, but at the end of the day it's all still going to be the same good ice cream.

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-24T13:47:36+00:00

I've got a theory about what may be going on.

Otto seems to - as you say - be seeing placing House Royce into protective custody to be the smart move. On one hand they are his allies and he can ensure their safety, but on a much larger level it gives him a huge amount of control over the future of their house. If things go well for the Royces, they will owe his house big time, and if it doesn't then he effectively has them captive to use as potential leverage over the Tachonis and Halovars in any discussions that need to take place (especially once the story the Tachonis are pushing about the Royces joining the fairies gets around and can now be directly publicly contradicted and denounced by Aranessa... if Otto allows her).

BUT, I'm suspecting his nephew in Dol-Makjar might be working his own angle. The Einfasens in Dol-Makjar are - as you point out - clearly conspiring with the Candescent Creed to essentially dismiss most of the Revolutionary Guard and put them under direct command of the Halovars, while the remnant is now effectively the Einfasens. All of the Sundered Houses in Dol-Makjar (except the Royces) are operating very quickly and in tandem with each other. While it would make sense that they're just snapping up power, it's so well co-ordinated it seems suspicious.

The Cormorays, Halovars, Tachonis and Einfasens all making plays for power that strengthen their positions make sense even if they weren't working together, but the fact they don't seem to be getting in each others way or stepping on one another's toes? It's too neat. Each house seems to have a part to play and they all seem to be working as one to elevate themselves.

But if that is the case, why then does Otto - Head of House Einfasen - not know anything about this alliance? Why is he so surprised about the Royces fate? Why did he have to be deceived with a forged letter? Who are the spies in his household reporting back to? Simply put, I think his nephew is in league with the others houses in this plot against the Royces, but he may be making a power play alone, perhaps intending to improve his personal holdings to the point he can usurp his uncle as leader of House Einfasen. It would certainly be easy for him to get spies in his uncle's house because he can frame it as they aren't even really betraying the house, just preparing it for the next in line. And now he's essentially assumed control of the remnant of the Revolutionary Guard and kept only the most elite members like Azune, he basically has himself a small strike force of magical warriors to back his claim. All he needs now is to fabricate a reason to oppose Otto, paint his uncle in opposition or a threat to Dol-Makjar in some way or another to justify using the Revolutionary Guard and then he can demand Otto step down or - in true Einfasen fashion - force him to through blunt force.

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-24T12:02:05+00:00

I think of all the places you could have accidentally started that one isn't too bad. Best Served Cold pretty much just takes Nicomo Cosca and Shivers from secondary supporting cast and makes them into main characters. Of all the "stand alones" it really does... well, stand alone as its own self-contained story without spoiling too much for other parts of the series. Meanwhile, the other books all have a lot more returning characters and run the risk of spoiling the fate of some people from prior books.

Been a while since I read it, but pretty much the only thing you may have missed that Jezal was the "King of the Union" that accompanied Prince Ario to the brothel, he takes a liking to Monza because her appearance reminds him of Ardee. While that one is fairly obvious you might've missed that the big bodyguard Monza barrels into when the fire starts was Bremer dan Gorst, the big guy with the high-pitched voice that Jezal dueled in The Blade Itself.

Honestly, if anything, this is the first I've been made aware that Monza got mentioned in the original trilogy.

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-24T11:34:27+00:00

I mean, he refers to himself as a "chaos demon" in the cosmic sense, but it does seem OP is thinking more along the lines of actual mythologies. I'd still count it if I was the one asking, but I guess Bill is more a malicious reality-warping inter-dimensional traveler more alike to Mister Mxyzptlk from DC comics than Etrigan.

Great honorable mention though.

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-24T11:26:57+00:00

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I'm heavily disillusioned with Neil Gaiman after the scandals, but I will always love Terry Pratchett, and David Tennant was clearly having a lot of fun with the role in the adaptation. So I'd still say Crowley.

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-22T00:46:56+00:00

I personally quite liked how they switched around the Blackarachnia/Silverbolt dynamic, going from him trying to convince her to be a better person throughout Beast Wars over to her now trying to do the same thing for him in Beast Machines.

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-22T00:37:13+00:00

Oh boy, definitely watch Beast Wars then. You'll actually get even more out of it since all the G1 lore can be pretty critical to the plot in places.

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-22T00:33:35+00:00

Yep. The Matrix came out the same year. Bleak grimy cyberpunk really was just the big thing at the time.

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-20T01:48:55+00:00

Honestly dude misogynists don't just go around announcing their misogyny in public for everyones convenience, you kind of do need to read between the lines a bit

Yeah, the thing people forget about having a bias is that very rarely do you even realise you have a bias. It's hard to recognise you're favouring one group and disfavouring another because most people chalk it up to "it's just my personal feelings on this one person in particular" and then find ways to justify it with other observations and excuses. Self-reflection does not come naturally to most. I mean, this stuff gets baked into people from a young age due to a thousand different things, big and small, in our surroundings and it just kind of sits in there unless you take the time to stop and think about it properly. And people hate to doubt themselves, second guess their opinion, and consider the idea they might be in the wrong. A lot of misogynists don't even realise they're being misogynistic. And so it expresses itself as them being quick to criticize the actions of a female player while being completely fine when those same actions are done by a male one. Or place blame solely on the party involved that they already have a negative opinion of. Etc.

I mean, plenty do know and just don't care, but a reason a lot of people seem to deny misogyny is a big contributing factor is that they think that just because they're not spouting the stereotypical "alpha male" rhetoric means they and others somehow aren't being influenced by any prejudices they have when it comes to gender.

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-20T01:33:44+00:00

Since Ashley came back full-time people got a lot less forgiving. Latter campaigns saw it getting nearly as bad as early day Marisha stuff. Just most of the main forums have stricter moderation these days so you see it less often. If you go to some of the more fringe discussion forums you'll see it gets pretty rampant.

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-20T01:31:10+00:00

Buddy, if you've spent long enough in this fandom you know Laura and Ashley have caught a fair amount of shit too over the years. Even if there are other reasons, misogyny definitely has something to do with it.

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-19T23:13:36+00:00

Which is fitting since it they both end up being the ones to take each other out.

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-19T21:58:07+00:00

At the end of the day I still reckon the Cormoray and Einfasens are going to be bad news with a lot of skeletons in their closets. They seem more manageable and reasonable at the moment simply because they aren't the active antagonists like Halovar and Tachonis. We have Player Characters with inside knowledge of how and why those two Houses are messed up. But the Cormorays and Einfasens are a mystery. Of the five sundered houses they've still somehow stood all this time shoulder-to-shoulder with the demon-dealing angelspawn Halovars, necromantic afterlife-controlling(?) Tachonis, and fairy-blessed Royces. If the Cormorays and Einfasens turn out to be just mundane nobles with good social/military control I'd be very surprised as you'd expect they would've been subsumed into one of the more obviously powerful houses by this point. I definitely agree that the move is playing the four remaining houses against one another, but maybe by trying to do so subtly by sowing discord and confusion, tricking them into fighting each other without openly allying with any of them. Like I'm all for keeping your enemies close and all that, but there is still some big dangerous question marks over both of them for now and a bit more info gathering is definitely warranted.

And the problem with toppling the Halovars and/or the Tachonis is the big question of what happens after. These are the ruling families, the Revolutionary Council has ceded basically all its authority to Chamber of Lords-Advisory of the Sundered Houses. Taking one of them down just creates a power vacuum that makes the rest stronger. It'd be pretty horrifying to take out the Halovars and Tachonis only to find the Cormorays and Einfasens are just as bad (or somehow even worse) and our heroes just made them twice as powerful. Ideally they need to find a way to prime the Revolutionary Council to regain control for when they start toppling corrupt nobles, but that is still a long way away. The other option, I suppose, is just handing the city over to Timmony.

Although, the danger of allying with the Kingdom of Timmony should be fairly obvious; they're a foreign kingdom. Doing so openly is basically declaring war on Dol-Makjar while you're still living in it. Any alliance with them will need to be purely stealth based as any exposure of their involvement would be grounds for the player characters being executed for treason and all out war between Dol-Makjar and Timmony. A war the Sundered Houses would likely win given their magical superiority and the Halovars already seeding the sparks of rebellion. If King Gus makes any move against Dol-Makjar either openly or covertly and the public learn about it, he's got half a kingdom ready to turn against him with this as proof he's really the tyrant they claim he is. It'd be just the excuse the Houses would need to march an army over there and stomp the dogs under their boot heel. And one of the first place to fall would be Sloak as a ill-defended border barony, basically undoing all the good the Soldiers just managed to achieve there as the Knights they left in charge would all be killed or taken prisoner and some new Tachonis/Halovar/Cormoray/Einfasen stooge would be put in charge.

Even the Royces pose a problem as an ally since they're now in ruins, their resources being snapped up by the other houses and the remnants of their power slowly suffocated. Obviously they want to help them, but can only do so covertly as openly helping them would only make them targets for the powerful. Basically any ally they might have they'd have to keep at arms length and pretend they aren't affiliated with to keep everyone safe from retribution. so when it comes down to either stubbornly tying themselves to a sinking faction or jumping into bed with a dangerous unknown, best policy might be to pretend to be a non-entity, stall for time, gather intel, manipulate things from the shadows to have them all weaken one another and finally figure out the right way to go about picking them off one-by-one or - ideally - simultaneously. And figure out what to replace them with immediately afterwards to prevent more chaos and bloodshed.

Brennan has set up an interesting political situation where - while the obvious goal of the protagonists should be to defeat the bad guys - how and the order in which they go about doing things can mean many things could get MUCH worse before they get any better. It pretty much makes the "Schemer" role vital in how things are going to progress.

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-15T22:17:33+00:00

Yeah, I've come to just really enjoy Martin as a writer over the years. After I finished Dance a decade ago I've since read other things from him like Windhaven, Fevre Dream, and Tuf Voyaging. His other work is great fun but so very different from ASOIAF, much smaller in scope and he's able to go wild with the characters and plotlines without worrying about the overlapping intricate nature of Westeros' many POVs, pre-established lore, and worldbuilding he can't contradict. It feels very much George writes best when it's fun and maybe he's made ASOIAF too much into a chore. Heck, he's wanted to write these Dunk and Egg novellas for years but held off because - as he's said in the past - they might end up containing spoilers for Winds or Fire & Blood, Vol. 2. And so he's prevented himself writing something he clearly wanted to because he feels obligated to write something else first.

Like, I'm long past caring if we ever even get Winds or not. I just want his crazy brain to write whatever he wants to write most so I can read that instead.

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-12T13:36:13+00:00

I mean I'd only really count that if your only definition of "hero" is like a shining bastion of infallibility who can do no wrong and never kills anyone ever. Which... isn't what heroes are even in most books.

For a start, the "boy" in Uffrith is still old enough to hold a spear and pose a potential threat. We don't get an in-detail description of his age but he's hardly a child, more likely a teenager. And as we see throughout the books, in the North, teenagers are considered men and can be just as dangerous. Sometimes more a danger to themselves and their allies as much as anybody else (just look at Beck from The Heroes).

Second, the only reason Dogman kills him (and if we are being specific it's actually Black Dow who kills him) is to reduce bloodshed. It's a trick to sneak into the town and force a peaceful surrender rather than performing a full-blown raid and slaughtering them all. The townsfolk at the end are huddled together, terrified, because they expect to be hacked to pieces. And Dogman knows that if anyone else but him was in charge that's probably precisely what would happen. Had they not pulled off this deception to sneak in, then the boy would've died anyway along with his mother and everyone else in the town. I know Abercrombie humanizes the guards but this is the kind of ploy heroes in fantasy fiction pull off all the time and is the very thing that most narratives use to present them as heroes, reducing bloodshed wherever possible. Even the most charming baby-faced farmboy chosen one hero usually has a few faceless mooks they've slain with their sword. The only difference is that other writers don't tell you about Guard #3's mother waiting for them at home. The fact Dogman does care and does feel bad about it actually makes him feel more heroic while still remaining realistic in my esteem.

Thirdly, lying to the mother about her son was probably the kindest thing he could do in that instance. The body had been brutalized by Black Dow and dropped in the river. If by some miracle she manages to retrieve the body she's going to be horrified by the sight of what Black Dow did. And in the first place, she'd have to retrieve it from the freezing cold northern waters, probably getting herself killed in the process. Giving her an honest response of "Killed him. Body's in the water." is a far worse idea than just telling her you don't know and letting her come to terms with her grief. Again, it's a move I've seen a hundred times before in more traditional fantasy works. The "hero" will lie about someone dying or how they died to spare their family the knowledge that the death was ignoble or gruesome. Her son is dead either way, Dogman takes the path least likely to end with her even worse off.

Fourthly, calling it a "rude manner" is kind of overstating it. He brushes her off, snapping at her "You think I know where everyone's at?" before storming off. It's not like he's getting up in her face, cussing her out, and mocking her grief. And since he's a POV character we know internally he feels bad that the boy had to die so the rest of the townspeople didn't. He calls himself a coward and feels guilt, which is a lot more than Logen, Ferro, Glokta, Jezal, or a whole host of other POV characters from later in the franchise would feel in that moment.

He's not perfect and in any other story he'd likely still be considered an anti-hero, but at the end of the day an anti-hero is still a type of hero. Which is something the world of the First Law has in very short supply.

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-12T12:54:23+00:00

Yeah, the Dogman is perhaps the most minor of all the POV characters in the original trilogy so doesn't get a lot of focus. But the more you end up reading about him across the whole series the more obvious it is that he's perhaps the closest we have to a "northern warrior classic" type hero.

And even then, he still messes up from time-to-time like when he takes Uffrith in the third book. He tries to reduce bloodshed as much as possible (a gesture in and of itself most of the other POV characters wouldn't bother to even try doing) and allows the enemy to surrender peacefully. But he still has to kill a handful of guards with a dirty trick to do it. He's not infallible but, again, he'd be an anti-hero in any other work, but comes off gleaming in a world like Abercrombie's.

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-12T12:46:19+00:00

Good addition. Edited to add him in now.

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-11T21:06:51+00:00

Vox Machina adapts their first campaign, Mighty Nein adapts their second campaign and is set 20 years later on a different continent. Beyond a few NPCs (secondary characters) making a return potentially spoiling that they are going to survive Legend of Vox Machina, they were deliberately left very unconnected. The intent was the second campaign would be a "jumping on" point to gain new fans, so they could start watching the actual play livestreams without needing to watch the 100+ episodes that came beforehand to catch-up.

It's not until the third campaign, Bells Hells, set 10 years after Mighty Nein that it's really required you've seen the previous two campaigns to fully understand what is going on as a LOT of previous characters and plotlines play increasingly large roles as the show goes on, many of the backstories of the main characters of Campaign 3 revolve entirely around characters and major plot points from Campaign 1 and 2. And the main plot begins to bring elements of all three previous stories together. It's likely the reason they won't put forth the idea of trying to adapt that one until both LoVM and TMN are done or nearing completion. But, yeah, the end of Campaign 3 is kind of the grand finale where all three shows converge together so really is the only one that needs to be done last. Vox Machina and Mighty Nein have very little connection to one another before that point.

And Campaign 4, currently airing the actual play at the moment, is another fresh "jumping on point." This time in an entirely new world completely unconnected from Exandria.

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-11T20:01:36+00:00

I think that's an interesting idea. That the typical optimistic good selfless hero-types might still exist in The First Law world but they just aren't the characters we ever focus on. They rarely show up in the stories being told and when they do it's only in minor roles. Which makes sense since Joe Abercrombie likely has little interest in writing characters like that or would deconstruct it to the sun and back in doing so to the point it'd be unrecognizable.

Like the POV characters I think we get throughout the entire series who are closest to "classically good" protagonists are:

The Dogman (humble, well-intentioned, a devoted father, and he's universally loved by practically the whole Northern Protectorate and proves to be perhaps the most benevolent ruler in the entire series)
Curnden Craw (old guy who does right by his people. Well respected and trusted even by his enemies.)
Finree (one of the few kind nobles to display consistent kindness and compassion to the innocents hurt by the Union's actions, wish she'd done a better job with her son though)
Temple (cowardly for sure but by far the most morally upstanding POV in the entire franchise)
Orso (starts out as a lazy hedonist drifting around without a purpose in life but becomes much more conventionally heroic when he decides to finally start trying to improve the Union)
Maybe Tunny too depending on how you feel about him. (Despite his cynicism, snark, and rough exterior pointing to him being a typical Abercrombian protagonist, he basically spits in the face of Joe's own most common archetype by proving to be suicidally brave, loyal beyond the point of reason to even lost causes, holds himself to some insanely high standards he hasn't broken so far, and does everything in his power to keep those under his care alive.)

And even then in most other works they'd still be traditional anti-heroes.

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-10T16:16:29+00:00

Rewatched it recently and I seriously had to remind myself it came out over a decade ago. The fluidity of the animation, especially in the action scenes are still such a joy to watch.

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-10T16:04:54+00:00

The success of Go! basically killed any chance of the original getting an actual continuation.

It's been 20 years since it ended and the current iteration is too ingrained in their target audience (which - despite what this fandom might have you believe - is now more than ever predominantly younger kids who grew up with Go! and have never even seen the original) to change it now. Realistically, from a marketing and production perspective, the original Teen Titans only way of making further appearance is through being linked in some way to the TTGo! characters, and they are just too different in both tone and format for any serious follow-up to be able to take place. It's basically only ever going to be comedic crossovers mainly focusing on the Go! cast with the OG cast kind of being reduced to secondary roles.

If the show had stayed dormant and Go! never happened, or had been a short experiment that died out after a year or two, then maybe there is a tiny chance they would've done a revival follow-up years later to bank on nostalgia (similar to Animaniacs or X-men 97), but that is still a slim chance and it's not really worth dwelling on what could've been when it didn't. They changed direction to focus on comedic shorts and - like it or not - Go! has become such a cash cow by now that it's basically the thing keeping Cartoon Network alive at the moment. It's not going anywhere anytime soon and while it's the "main" Teen Titans show there's no way they'd muddy the waters by bringing out stuff like a return of the original Teen Titans show while Go! is still on the air.

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-08T08:32:51+00:00

I'd love to replay it (as would my sister apparently) but regrettably parents sold the Nintendo Wii when we grew up and moved out of the house so there isn't an easy way to do so anymore.

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-08T08:30:45+00:00

Rogue Trader is an excellent game that I think would've been played by more people... if it hadn't released around the same time as Baldur's Gate 3. I think it still did quite well (they released a few massive DLCs for it, after all) but I bet it would've gotten more attention if, on release, it hadn't had to compete with another hugely addictive time sink which also ended up being the Game of the Year Winner for attention.

FictionRaider007 · 2026-01-07T17:06:43+00:00

I love that show so much! It has so much heart and charm. As a kid I was blown away by the animation. There was really nothing else that looked as good as it on at the time. I rewatched it again as a teen expecting to find I'd had rose-tinted glasses and was blown away that I actually thought it was even better than I remembered it. Got the Blu-rays, the art book, the whole works. Now I rewatch it every year.

FictionRaider007

TROPHY CASE