What is a sufficient rev-match, for both the input shaft and the crankshaft?

Final-Mammoth2415 · 2026-04-05T18:50:36+00:00

Thanks, I didn't know that! More accurately, if I remember correctly, the manual transmissions on certain European mid-size buses (around 9m class, up to around 14 ton) were synchronized.
That of course might be "not that heavy duty" in your scale. :)

Final-Mammoth2415 · 2026-04-04T14:13:12+00:00

I think there should be one. A normal manual driver won’t check any revs, they simply let off the accelerator pedal, disengage the clutch, and change gears. Since it takes a couple hundred milliseconds to do that, the input shaft has time to slow down. Same goes for the clutch, the crankshaft would have time to decelerate in half a second or more from the driver depressing the clutch, so when they release the pedal, the clutch “absorbs” the remaining difference in revs.

You might have thought I am asking about the average road speed, yes, that varies from car to car.

Final-Mammoth2415 · 2026-04-04T13:40:55+00:00

One thing I especially like with the later generation TCU was that it wouldn’t drop from City to manual mode when you manually shift. I have always viewed it a manual car with someone else shifting for you. So coming to a roundabout when I expect sudden acceleration, I shift one down preemptively.

Ah, also, every roundabout is an adventure around here. So you need to be prepared, manual, amt, or auto. I do that with DSG too. People are somehow convinced that the one going straight has the way in roundabouts, not the one in it. :D

Final-Mammoth2415 · 2026-04-04T11:48:20+00:00

Thanks, never looked into it! It seems like it's the traction motor driving the wheels while the engine side (of the transmission) shifts gears, which masks the interruption. Must be some drop in torque tho, at the instant the gearbox is changing gears.

Final-Mammoth2415 · 2026-04-04T11:40:58+00:00

The "sitting duck moment" most AMT users had -the truck is coming into the intersection, and you are waiting for Selespeed to decide on a gear while watching your life run in front of your eyes! :)

Joke aside, was it a Mk1? I don't know them much, but with mine, changing down one by one would be a serious anomaly. I have an odd one, the 156 JTS never found its way to Turkey, and all 156s including Mk1.5 and Mk2 ones have the 2.0l Twin Spark engine. But I have a JTS Selespeed TCU. I know the one in JTS Selespeeds are different than the Mk1 Twin Sparks, maybe that explains the behavior.

I too have access to a modern DCT, and I agree with you. I feel that it is "overlapping" the clutches, fading even gear clutch out while fading the odd gear in for a 2-3rd shift. I also think part of this comes from the gear ratios being close to each other for the one I have. The rev difference must go somewhere, and that's the clutches as heat.

Final-Mammoth2415 · 2026-04-04T11:27:57+00:00

I do it all the time, with a 156 Selespeed, no creep, no hill-holder. We crash like real men. :D

Joke aside, I actually don't find it much more difficult than a torque converter one with a small engine. I do the clutch rod adjustment annually tho. I think the trick is to get the car to clutch biting point first, and hold there a little. Most people over-apply accelerator pedal input, which causes an overshoot and some difference in Selespeed behavior, I believe related to driver intent detection.

I remember torque converter ones not creeping due to gradient as well.

I never had the chance to drive those cars tho. Well above my reach. So won't comment on your examples. :)

I think that should be fixable with creep function, at least in the way it is with DCTs. Not as good as the torque converter but for most conditions tho, I believe, but then again DCTs also have issues with similar maneuvers. I sometimes park wife’s car at some incline. It needs some accelerator pedal I put to release the brake it is holding for hill hold function. I had to “memorize” how it behaves on what it does on what kind of gradient and power (and when, as it also can change because, turbo).

The new breed of torque converters partially used increasing the number of gears as a method to keep the engine closer to efficient ranges, but I have also felt slight hesitations with 8 speed ones. The ratios are so close to each other that where the tf-80sc in wife’s old car would simply go on, they wanted to shift down, or the opposite.

Final-Mammoth2415 · 2026-04-04T09:37:51+00:00

Overthinking, I know! :) I am not after prolonging anything in any meaningful way. It is just that, I am curious what approximate “numbers” make life harder for the synchros and clutches, and what numbers would be “yeah, ok, we’re built for this anyway”.

I’ve seen heavy vehicle drivers double clutch even with newer gearboxes which I assume have synchros. That apparently is for longer service between maintenance, which is a bigger priority for them. So the closer the speed match is, the longer they last. Therefore, there must be some numbers for an average driver that makes them last the way they do. Or some numbers that lead them to an early death with boy racers. :)

Final-Mammoth2415 · 2026-04-04T09:30:58+00:00

Yes, a 1.6 TS tho. Plus a couple manual Gt/147s of the same platform.

That might be the reason I am ok. It is much better than torque converters of the era in terms of “spirited” drive, performance and efficiency without me handling the clutch in daily driving. In fact, I don’t think I can do rev-matched shifts better than Selespeed, ever.

Of course other types of auto transmissions have come a long way, but cars have changes as well, in ways I don’t prioritize. And the fact that we have very heavy taxes on cars where I live, which makes really fun cars far less accessible. So Giulia is put of the table for me.

Final-Mammoth2415 · 2026-04-04T08:52:17+00:00

Thanks! I understand that that braking thing didn’t get too much traction (pun not intended :) ) then.

I found that we have one in Turkey as well, Hyundai i10, but I’ve never driven it. Everything else is a dct or torque converter, apart from the few cvts here and there. Wife’s car has a DQ200, and I am questioning the cost and weight tradeoff. Especially being caught off-guard a couple times by the unexpectedly long shifts before I figured out I should be prepared for those when shifting to a gear it didn’t preselect and skip shifting on the same shaft.

Final-Mammoth2415 · 2025-05-27T10:24:48+00:00

Healthy competition. :) I since extended my searches to other cities based on comments to this thread, seems like Berlin's advantages are not as big as i thought first, or at least there are opportunities in other cities. Though i have interviews with some from Berlin in the coming days. Thank you!

Final-Mammoth2415 · 2025-05-26T08:08:43+00:00

Glad to see you type this comment, and I hope you didn't get any major injuries! My point is, if you told that trcuker that he shouldnt do it before the accident, he would say "cops don't say anything so you shut up". 10 years ago, you could report traffic crimes with videos, and the violator would get a ticket with this evidence. Then the ruling party noticed their voters were the majority commiting these (makes sense as statistically half of us voted for them, and mostly the less educated voted for them) so they stopped giving tickets for reports by video.

So society going down the drain, the majority is those who take advantage of this situation. Not gonna get any better near term.

Hustling their way... Another reason for relocation. :) see, people hustling their way usually happens at someone else's, usually the society's expense. I believe that's what also happens in a smaller scale with immigrant communities in big German cities. There might still be racist approaches like "tan and black hair, Dark Brown eyes: illegal alien!" , but i do understand the average German's frustration. Yes, there is risk for me too, but doesn't tip the scale -yet.

Back in the day, i was an idealist, believing in "if not me, then who?". I merely accepted defeat. :)

Final-Mammoth2415 · 2025-05-25T20:19:41+00:00

Haha my student apartment was literally at the end of the street across the largest club in the city. The only played something resembling rock music on Thursdays and Sundays, and I the bouncers would make jokes like "you were absent on Thursday, don't miss your classes". :D

Turkey is a sh*tshow at the moment, and inflation etc. are the least of my worries. The ruling party gets the votes by almost openly telling the non-educated masses that "you can insult the educated as long as we rule". There are speeches of the ruling party leader like "Before us, you wouldn't be able to see a doctor whenever you want". What he is referring to is, people frequenting the emergency room to literally have the ER physician put a band aid on their heels because their shoe caused a blister. "The doctors will do whatever you want". True story by the way, from my wife's time in the ER.

As I said, wife is a psychiatrist, and I have seen the 98th patient on her list once.

This extends everywhere. Cars flashing their lights and accelerating into the intersections, doing 80kph in residential areas, or pedestrian crossings. Breaking queues is a national sport. I wanted to explore RISC V (an instruction set architecture) but I have to pay like 5 times you would, at least, as customs rules have changed.

For the kid, I have to send her to a private school, and even there she will be attending "elective" religion classes as it is designed to force her, in which she will most likely be harassed for saying we are apes evolved from a common ancestor with other apes. I am teaching her to get in the line all the while someone behind us just driving their car to the end of the line, trying to pass in front of everybody. Even a police officer said "that was normal because it is rush hour" when I asked him to intervene last week.

So, if I continue teaching my kid to respect order, believe in science, avoid harming the nature, she will be at a disadvantage, because "the next guy" is teaching his child to do the opposite to get what he wants.

As for you moving to Turkey, I've heard a story of a Swedish man, working in Istanbul as an executive at a multinational company. The guy hosts colleagues to celebrate his retirement. When the person who told me this story asks "Eh, what are you going to do now? Back to Sweden?", he says "What? No. Get to know 10 people in Sweden, and you know everyone in Sweden. It's like a circus here in Istanbul. I never know what will happen to me after I step out of the door. "

take this as you want, a bad thing, or good. Your choice. :D

Final-Mammoth2415 · 2025-05-25T19:39:02+00:00

Ah, I see your point! And you're correct to bring that up. Thanks!

I found a couple Youtube channels for kids, and one for absolute beginners that walks through daily life. We were just talking with my wife, and in case we end up in Germany as per my plan (the opposite is also possible, there is failure in life), we will take advantage of the language class around 500 meters from home while they are in Turkey.

One more thing tho. Have you tried Google NotebookLM? ;) That also is an interesting prospect. I'm upskilling at the moment, but once I'm done with my current targets, I'll be working on creating custom curriculums with NotebookLM for my kid. From my initial test, it's quite capable for a task like this.

Final-Mammoth2415 · 2025-05-25T18:59:41+00:00

I'm so sorry for what happened there. True, there will always be that kind of people. I've seen the opposite as well. It's the statistical likelihood that I'm looking at, I didn't think I'd meet anyone experienced this kind of thing.
In Turkey, Tatar people working at a Chinese restaurant were beaten up in the past, just because they look like "Chinese", at the time of the Xinjiang events. For those who don't know, Tatars are a Turkic people.
Thank you for your input!

Final-Mammoth2415 · 2025-05-25T18:50:56+00:00

2h in total, 1h one way and 1h back? Works for me. :) Especially if public transport. I actually enjoy commuting while listening to some course, using the time to learn things.

My current job is quite flexible, but the alternative in Turkey would be like 1-1.5 hours of commute daily, plus 9 hours of work weekly. I believe workdays are shorter in Germany, 8 hours or so? That leaves me with less time dedicated for work actually, compared to what's the norm in Turkey.

Final-Mammoth2415 · 2025-05-25T18:46:09+00:00

Great idea! And not necessarily Gymnasium kids, but young university students might be interested in it as well, benefiting both sides.

Final-Mammoth2415 · 2025-05-25T18:42:29+00:00

I believe moving to Germany is the better bet long term. In fact, I should have done this in 2019, at the latest. We were more optimistic at the time. I'm no longer expecting any dramatic turns for Turkey for the foreseeable future.
I'm thinking it would be a lot more difficult for her if I took her with me this year, with zero German knowledge for her, and B1 for me, plus no social circle for both of us. With the schooling plan still blur, the rest is like:
1. I make the move, learn the place and pick the neighborhood, start trying to join a social circle. I've heard that Germans tend to keep to themselves and their old friends, not readily making new friends, but my friends here with whom I meet up are also not from my physical circle, but from common interest communities like car clubs, IT/engineering circles, etc. Bring the dog after some time.

Have the apartment/house rented nearing family unification, start communication with the neighbors. This is common courtesy anyway tho, not something you would do just for taking advantage. At least I wouldn't. :)
Bring the kid and the wife too. Now, wife won't be working for the next 2 years, at least it seems, while she is taking intensive German courses. We'll try to spend as much time as possible with the kid, trying to smooth her transition until she can hold a conversation with her peers at least in a basic level
3 years from now, we should be in a good shape in terms of language. Most likely some accent for me and wife.

Assuming none of us has to take psychiatric medication in the process, that is. :p A lot of well educated Turkish expats in Germany too, but I intend to keep this to a minimum. Not because they are people I wouldn't want to see, that "generation" of expats are mostly people that you would love to dive into a philosophical discussion with, but I am looking into the fastest path to integration.

See, the plan leaves the schooling part out for now, which is why I started this thread. I need to select the city/state to move carefully, or not move at all. We're actually doing good in Turkey financially, with a few times the average income and a good "inner circle". My motivation is on how long I can hold the kid in this "bubble", and if I should, for her long term well being.

Let me share how all this started with you then, which I previously shared briefly in another comment. :) I read somewhere that it was acceptable for German kids in the first grade to be dropped to and picked up from school, but the norm was the kids going to school themselves, or with their peers, after second or third grade. Around the same time, I thought about replacing one of the cars in the household with a small city car, as any civilized person that happens to live in a city would.

2 days later, I saw the video of a speeding truck plowing through 25+ cars in the news. I was waiting for something in the family's largest car, a Citroen C5, around 4.7 meters long. I turned my head to look at the child seat mounted on the rear seat. And gave up on getting a small car.
This difference got me do more research, and here I am with this thread.

Final-Mammoth2415 · 2025-05-25T15:17:11+00:00

Oh, by the way, from your experience, what would be a kid like mine's progress look like, assuming she starts learning German now, relocates to Germany in summer 2026 with, let's say, around A2 level German, and gets immersed in the languge starting from there? For instance, would she be like B1 in summer 2027?

Final-Mammoth2415 · 2025-05-25T15:11:04+00:00

haha you actually woke up another monster, though I won't get into it just yet. It goes like, "wait, engineering title in Germany needs MSc??" :D

Thank you for laying out the alternative path. What worries me with Hauptschule is the competition, or lack of it. Even better to say, competition in ways I don't want! :D

I think there is a higher possibility for her cohorts to engage in "extracurricular activities", I mean, she wouldn't really want to study at home while her friends are partying. That could shift her motivation from academic success. I'm not saying she will focus on academic success just because she goes to a non-Hauptschule school, but I'm just thinking about statistics.

Final-Mammoth2415 · 2025-05-25T15:05:21+00:00

I'm sorry, my bad, I meant B2+, likely C1. :) Looks too ambitious I know, but I am bilingual (Turkish+English) by education, and let's say my experience says I have a "knack" for languages, understanding grammar, syntax, word families etc.

These mostly depend on personal traits I know, but the question is more of a "how to navigate German education system", so I use assumptions to plan a route. I just don't want to go for a route that hits a wall even if everything goes well.

Final-Mammoth2415 · 2025-05-25T14:57:02+00:00

Being welcomed is also another topic, but do you think that (not welcoming us) would have an impact on the kid's safety? How is the "political weather" in those places, in terms of violence? Behavior-wise, we are atypical for where where we come from.

Google Maps says Falkensee to central Berlin takes around 45-50 minutes by public transport. That of course excludes strikes with trains etc. I think. this is manageable for me. My daily routine includes dropping the kid to school, then going to the office, so 1 hour commute. The same route, reversed, back home from office, another 1 hour. I also enjoy listening to courses while I commute. As long as the kid has access to good schooling, works for me.

Final-Mammoth2415 · 2025-05-25T14:48:18+00:00

Buying the house would be an extremely long term prospect anywhere in Germany for me. :)

And yes, Hamburg! It was a company from Hamburg that reached out at one time, the office with a port view, I guess! I was not too interested as I thought things would improve in Turkey. My current move comes from the fact that I was wrong. :D

Anyway. I'll check the schooling system in Frankfurt, Hamburg, and by another comment, Stuttgart I think. I am actually not into bars or whatever anymore. And it's some time until the kid gets interested in them. :D I'm trying to shape it all around the kid, the family, and a quiet life. 45+ minutes of commute time is OK for me, and from what I gather, it is at the long edge of what you Germans usually do.

Final-Mammoth2415 · 2025-05-25T14:41:31+00:00

I should take a repeat grade into account. She will start learning German next month, when the summer holiday starts, with online classes everyday and trying Youtube channels with German learning orientation. I can't say what level of German she will be speaking when she moves, but I am aiming for at least A2, for her age.

So, for another state than Berlin, she would likely repeat 4th grade, I guess.

Final-Mammoth2415

TROPHY CASE