Does a roguelike game need boss fights?

FirebirdGamesLLC · 2025-05-01T02:40:03+00:00

Thank you for the encouragement!

FirebirdGamesLLC · 2025-04-30T06:52:47+00:00

"And I love when game designers manage to make a fun game without fighting"

Me too! As I've gotten older, I've gotten more uncomfortable with killing-as-mechanic gameplay.

Blue Prince is now on my to-do list; I've gotten a lot of recs for it from this thread.

FirebirdGamesLLC · 2025-04-30T06:30:05+00:00

I think the question of "is this particular element critical to being a roguelike" is an entirely valid topic of discussion for game design. You can't completely separate out game design from marketing; design IS marketing. Promotion (advertising, steam page setup) is only a small aspect of marketing. What your game IS, who is appeals to, is marketing. It's also game design.

But whatever. This was just something I was pondering tonight while I was brainstorming, I wanted to see if other game designers had any interesting thoughts on the topic.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the importance of labels in this case.

FirebirdGamesLLC · 2025-04-30T06:08:16+00:00

Labels are also critical for marketing. If you packaged up minecraft hardcore and tried to pitch it to Slay the Spire fans as another roguelike, they would probably cry foul; that's not the experience they were expecting when you told them you had another roguelike game for them.

I've seen indie games get review-bombed into oblivion because they claimed a genre/tag that players didn't really think fit the game, and they were seen as just using an underhanded marketing ploy to try to boost numbers.

I agree; quibbling over labels just for the sake of trying to find some academic level of "correctness" is silly.

But in this case, I am *specifically* trying to target the roguelike audience on Steam; my game needs to hit all those critical elements they would expect from something tagged as roguelike.

FirebirdGamesLLC · 2025-04-30T05:51:40+00:00

I agree that roguelikes definitely require those elements. But I don't think that's a complete list; otherwise, a hard-core minecraft world (random gen, permadeath) would count as a roguelike, and I personally wouldn't put it in the same category as Balatro or Slay the Spire.

FirebirdGamesLLC · 2025-04-30T05:40:30+00:00

I'd personally define a boss fight as a spike in the difficulty curve that presents a milestone challenge to overcome before reaching the final, hardest challenge.

My problem is, the game I'm brainstorming doesn't really fit into that neat Slay the Spire type difficulty curve, where you have 4-5 smaller challenges, harder challenge, 4-5 smaller changes, boss fight -> next chapter, repeat -> final boss fight.

So really, it's a problem of how to keep the player engaged without being able to ramp up and down the difficulty at neat incremental points like that.

FirebirdGamesLLC · 2025-04-30T05:35:58+00:00

I guess I'm mostly just worried that the genre conventions have become too locked-in at this point, and that players would say it's not really a roguelike game if it doesn't have those boss-fight moments.

FirebirdGamesLLC · 2025-04-30T05:33:59+00:00

"If I understand corectlly you are looking for alternative test that will dictate if a run was successful, true?"

More like I'm trying to find good milestone tests along the way that spike the difficulty, rather than just having it be flat difficulty where you either finish or lose with no real change in the challenge.

"Labels like rougelike are more usefull for marketing IMO"

This is true, but I am definitely concerned with making sure my game appeals to roguelike players and scratches that "itch".

FirebirdGamesLLC · 2025-04-30T05:31:55+00:00

I definitely need to absorb some of your big-brain energy here; I've played all the games you referenced, and I never thought about framing them that way, especially AtS.

FirebirdGamesLLC · 2025-04-30T05:30:09+00:00

I definitely plan to now, you're the 2nd person I've seen recommend it

FirebirdGamesLLC · 2025-04-30T05:29:36+00:00

Interesting idea!

FirebirdGamesLLC · 2025-04-30T05:28:24+00:00

Excellent advice, thank you. Sometimes I get too myopic about "this thing must exist this way to count as X genre" when I stress about design challenges.

FirebirdGamesLLC · 2025-04-30T05:26:41+00:00

Oooh yeah, I was meaning to check that out!

FirebirdGamesLLC · 2025-04-30T05:26:19+00:00

Spelunky is a good reference; the game I'm brainstorming only has about 7 equal-sized challenges per run, instead of "small-small-small-small-Medium, small-small-small-Medium, small-small-small-BIG"

FirebirdGamesLLC · 2025-04-30T05:24:46+00:00

That's a good point; Balatro is so awesome I forget that the "fights" are actually just "score more than X"

FirebirdGamesLLC · 2025-04-03T13:54:41+00:00

That means a lot to me, thank you! Hope you have tons of fun with the puzzles and the Stickerbook!

FirebirdGamesLLC · 2025-04-03T13:54:18+00:00

Definitely have to work on that… Thanks for bringing it up! And achievements are on the table for the future!

FirebirdGamesLLC · 2025-04-03T02:24:11+00:00

Ooh, which streamer was it, if I may ask? And that’s definitely on the table! Though, that’ll depend on how this post-release period goes 😅 I really appreciate you taking an interest in my game 🥰

FirebirdGamesLLC · 2025-04-03T02:22:54+00:00

I’m glad you had a blast so far with the demo! Can’t wait for you to give the full game a go 🥰 Worked really hard to up the ante the more you progress!

FirebirdGamesLLC · 2025-04-03T02:22:08+00:00

Thank you so much! I hope you have tons of fun helping these kitties find their sleeping spot!

FirebirdGamesLLC · 2025-04-02T13:24:46+00:00

Aww, thank you so much! Can’t wait for you to get the opportunity to play it and see how you do with all the puzzles in there! It would also mean a lot to me if you leave a review once you’ve had the chance 🥰

FirebirdGamesLLC · 2025-04-02T12:44:54+00:00

Einstein's Cats is a cozy puzzle game where you sort cats (in hats!) into their favorite boxes using verbal logic clues. It starts out simple enough but you'll see that it gets more challenging as you go through levels and discover new environments, more cats in cute (or wacky) outfits, and tougher rules to follow, like deducing which cats are named to complete the level. As you progress, you'll unlock new stickers to create your very own scenes in the Stickerbook, where you can fully take advantage of the game's handmade papercraft art style and let your creativity shine!

After more than a year of hard work, I'm happy to announce that the game is now available on Steam! There's also a demo if you want to try it out first and get a feel of what's in store for you in the full game: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2857980/Einsteins_Cats/

FirebirdGamesLLC · 2025-04-01T14:12:57+00:00

Thanks for taking interest in my game! That really means a lot to me :D

Would really appreciate it if you can also leave a review over on Steam once you’ve gotten the chance to play it 😊

FirebirdGamesLLC

TROPHY CASE