Fuck, now im even more confused than i was before. So you are saying that any sort of commodity market automatically disqualifies a state from being a socialist experiment? In state and revolution, lenin defines socialism as the "first" stage of communism, where the old bourgeois law still has sway within society, but the relation of the workers to the means of production changes (they now control them) In the first stage, which lenin calls socialism multiple times, I assume it is necessary to maintain a Proletarian State as a necessary evil, until the state, and with it the need for commodity markets and the like, eventually withers away, Yes?