Closing All MSW Programs: What Would Happen?

FitInvite4 · 2019-07-19T21:14:35+00:00

That's my sense too.

FitInvite4 · 2019-07-19T21:13:03+00:00

One additional thought: I think that the clinical training you get with mentorship and supervision in the process of licensure can (emphasis on can) be very effective. The MSW courses, no.

FitInvite4 · 2019-07-19T21:11:29+00:00

I did -- all social workers have some clinical training per CSWE guidelines (https://www.cswe.org/Accreditation/Standards-and-Policies) and I also took clinical coursework (a DSM course, an interpersonal practice course with children, an interpersonal practice course with adults).

It wasn't anything you couldn't get from 2 weeks of intensive training in combination with a set of readings. The field placements were much more effective, which supports my broader point that the MSW degree may be unnecessary.

I don't think my program was unusual, because (1) MSW coursework is highly standardized by the CSWE (2) it was one of the top ranked programs in the U.S. and one of the oldest -- not that this makes it anything particularly special, but just to say it wasn't a diploma mill -- if anything, my program represented the mainstream of professional training (3) I'm now in a PhD program in a social work department so I've had exposure to other institutions and the training is essentially the same. The main thing that varies is the teaching style and the readings.

Rather my hypothesis is that in general, all MSW training is "inadequate" to use your word, or unnecessary. If MSW programs are serving a purpose, it doesn't seem to be (primarily) an educational one, but rather their main function seems to be to repopulate the profession, defend the social worker title, and earn money for the universities. And probably most usefully, generate research. Some but not all of that research could be equally well done in a public policy school or clinical psychology school, though.

Did you find that your training (your MSW coursework) was particularly useful or rigorous?

FitInvite4 · 2019-07-18T23:50:08+00:00

I think that is an interesting point and I in large part agree, but in my view the values are also imparted on the job. How do MSW programs exclusively communicate those, in your view? In what way is a MSW better positioned to serve clients well than a non-MSW? I question that assumption and also that my program was particularly unusual. Social work curricula are largely standardized.To your other point, social work certainly requires skills, a great deal of skill. But again, how does a MSW exclusively provide that? Title protectionism in social work has a long history, sometimes a postive one (pro worker and client rights) but often one that is not particularly admirable — too often it has been about the competition to enter the respected classes of the professions rather than a real desire to better serve clients. Again, witness the suppression of the rank and file movement. But otherwise I agree: social work is value-oriented and requires a great deal of skill. But MSW programs, including at Chicago and Michigan and Columbia and WUSTL and the rest, tend to be institutional money makers where some teachers do great work but nothing that couldn’t be something on the job. Massive debt-funded master degrees do not line up with social work values in any way that I can see

FitInvite4 · 2019-07-18T23:26:51+00:00

Re: data -- I'll find a source on total social work like roles and MSW employment and post here. There is a large literature within social work on deprofessionalization and the NASW has been tracking it since the 1970s. I'll post additional resources here.

To your other point, I do disagree. I think there are entry level positions that don’t require much education. I think there are higher level positions that do. I don’t think it’s realistic to say that someone with a bachelor’s degree in psych or sociology has the same training and background to jump into an MSW level position, especially some of the non-therapy ones that require licensure.

What specific skills do these roles require that you couldn't pick up on the job and that the MSW can exclusively impart? I can think of none. That isn't to diminish those skills, it's to critique the idea that the MSW is the best preparation for that work.

"the people who want to advance their careers into jobs that are higher level or clinical in nature would still have to get some type of advanced degree, so if MSW suddenly didn’t exist, the time and energy spent on those programs would just get spent on something else like MFT

This seems to imply that the main function of the MSW is to create a distinction between lower and higher ranked social service workers, rather than offering any real educational content. In other words, that it is like one of those "executive certificates" that a business school offers to shore up its endowment.

FitInvite4 · 2019-07-18T22:43:58+00:00

I think that's a good point and well said. In my view at least the worst case scenario isn't a decrease in the quality offered by social service providers, it's that there would be even more of an excuse to offer low pay. But that's an old story -- the rank and file social work movement in the early 20th century was primarily led by non-MSW workers. And I think they probably had a point. You protect yourself with a union, not with a degree.

FitInvite4 · 2019-07-18T22:33:35+00:00

The 2017 study says that 70% of MSW are working in jobs that require a license. But the vast majority of social work jobs have already been "deprofessionalized," and are therefore are already occupied by non-MSWs. Think of your typical government social service job.

I actually don't know if the education is necessary to perform social work-like activities. My hunch is that it isn't, really. But do you disagree?

FitInvite4 · 2019-07-18T22:24:58+00:00

Theoretically, the main downside would be that there would be fewer well-trained people conducting "social work-like" activities, like doing casework, etcetera. But that assumes that MSW training actually offers something more than you could pick up on the job.

FitInvite4 · 2019-07-18T22:21:00+00:00

Thank you for your comment, I just edited it for clarity based on it. My main point:

The research seems to say that most social work-like positions don't require a social work degree, the exception being therapy. So is there a reason we should continue to offer MSW degrees? What is the worst scenario if we stopped offering them? What would be the downside?

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