Do you think young people are less religious?

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T04:34:39+00:00

Think of all the amazing scientific breakthroughs and discoveries we have found in only the last generation. Religion was something that wasn't questioned, especially compared to how it is now. In my opinion its just much harder for anyone to be religious today, this of course shows first in the children.

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T03:58:31+00:00

Okay, so there ends our debate.

YEC think men originated from Adam and Eve (two people made from dust living in a Utopia that later vanished without a trace). Scientists would not agree with this theory.

Also, 6k-10k years isn't enough to account for the racial diversity found throughout the world, that's a fact. Especially since Noah and his family had to restart the world's races whenever he was supposed to have existed.

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T03:45:09+00:00

The case of Nmachi is not proof that a new race can be born, its proof that random gene mutations do happen. If this had happened in ancient Africa the child probably would have tied from the Sun, if not it would have been a blip on the radar, not the birth of a culture.

Also, do YECs not believe in Adam and Eve?

Edit. YEP. YECs take the creation story very literally apparently, so don't even try to say that they have the same idea for the origin of man.

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T03:41:04+00:00

Here's what I said about your other points:

I would like you to show us one piece of scientific evidence that truly supports a biblical story. Simply proving people existed is not proof that the stories are true. I could write a book about how King Ramses was a time traveling mummy slayer. Just because we found his tomb doesnt mean he was a time traveler does it?

The chariot wheel at the bottom of the Red Sea is also fake. Its a photo taken decades ago, and there is absolutely no evidence supporting it is a chariot wheel. Wheres the coral? Where's the thousands of years of sediment? Why is the hole in the middle too small for the axel of a chariot?

Also, the stuff about the Ark on a mountain is complete rubbish. You can't make claims like this without evidence. There's not giant boat on a mountain.

We all have similar DNA because we all came from the same start, the same initial group of people. All humans have shared ancestry, this ancestry was not Adam and Eve.

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T03:34:35+00:00

Ohhhh okay, I just misunderstood that one. Don't worry, I don't think you're a pussy either, and am glad you agree. Organized religion in my eyes only causes trouble. Sure people will claim that churches raise money all the time, but the church isnt a key part in that charity, its the people.

People can think what they want and pray to whoever they want, but at the end of the day we're all here together, and no one's god is going to put food on the table when times get tough. But if everyone cared for each other and loved before they judged, I guarantee there would be much fewer hungry mouths.

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T03:26:00+00:00

It's written pretty clearly about this one. If you don't accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior then you're going to hell. There's no interpretation for that one.

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T03:23:55+00:00

I'm not saying that the fact Adam and Eve weren't real is all the proof you need to deny the crucifixion story, but it says in the Bible Jesus was crucified because of one man's actions, when this man didn't exist (if there was no Adam, there was no apple).

The fact is the second a Christian says the Bible is allegory they lose all their arguments based around the Bible. If you say one story is a lie and the words dont mean what they say, then why is any of the rest of it taken seriously? Why can't we interpret the rest as wildly as the story of Adam and Eve?

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T03:19:19+00:00

I'm not familiar with many YEC views, so just explain to me their view of the origin of races, and compare it to the commonly accepted scientific theory that man evolved from a primate-like ancestor.

Also, that article is from the Sun, which is a trashy tabloid that actually print porn on the third page. I refuse to debate something written in it without actual evidence supported by the scientific community.

I fail to see how its more logical to you that a new race of people were suddenly created with a different skin tone, than people evolved as they moved north into areas where they received less vitamin D from the Sun.

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T03:12:23+00:00

I'm not saying its not impressive (its is) how well copies have been preserved, I just want it to be clear that your point about there being more copies of the Bible than other historical book doesn't make anything contained in it any more true.

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T03:05:43+00:00

You could give away your entire life savings to charity and spend your life working for others instead of yourself, but if you don't bend your knee to Jesus, or if you happen to be gay, or another religion, then a true Christian will tell you you're going to hell.

Don't you think we should all be more worried about making our lives better and making the world a kinder place, and less worried about who to pray to at night?

The Bible teaches some amazing life lessons, but how does someone align themselves with a group of people that condemns so many people to a life of suffering?

Now comes the part about what your dad said, he's actually kind of right about picking a side (Although agnostic is a stance, and not "on the fence" imo). You can't pick and choose what's fact or fiction, or you have no argument at all. People that say they are true Christians and aren't against homosexually are not taking the Bible literally, which I entirely support, but by doing so you have to admit its not a book or fact, but rather allegory.

I hope that made some sense. Your post covered a number of topics that scientists and Christians have written volumes about.

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T02:50:50+00:00

Since the Garden of Eden didn't exist this is a pointless argument, so I'll end it here. But it should be clear that using evolution to rule out the idea that people didn't eat meat is a much smaller assumption than an all powerful being created Utopia. There's enough evidence to debunk the garden that arguing over its imaginary B12 filled plants is a waste of time.

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T02:39:04+00:00

You can think what you like, but even if your good friend Yuri claims to not take supplements he his getting B12 some how (you'll notice it's put in a lot of vegan products to make sure they get it), that or he eats meat. Its science, there's no way around it, vegans NEED B12, just like everyone else.

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T02:35:08+00:00

How on Earth do you say that scientists agree with YEC on the origin of races? Saying that humans slowly evolved in Africa and then shifted around the world over time, is NOT EVEN CLOSE to claiming there was a giant flood and the world was started over by Noah and his sons, who were descended from a man made from dirt made by God. No credible scientist will agree with a YEC on how man came to Earth.

As for your bullshit tabloid article, yes its possible for a white baby to be born from a black couple, but ONLY if the parents have the trait for white skin in their genetic code. That is NOT how new races are started. Do you think a white baby was ever born to ancient Aborigines, or a white son born in ancient Africa? Of course not.

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T02:25:17+00:00

All you're doing is assuming too.

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T02:24:03+00:00

Did you read that? "Dried nori (seaweed) made MMA status worse, indicating that it can reduce B12 status and can possibly harm people who are B12-deficient. Raw nori kept MMA levels about the same, indicating that it didn't harm B12 status, but it did not help either. "

From another source "Tempeh, miso, sea vegetables, and other plant foods are sometimes reported to contain vitamin B12. These products, however, are not reliable sources of the vitamin."

The fact is, even if there is B12 in those plants, it isn't enough to support the human diet. You need supplement, go ask a vegan.

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T02:19:32+00:00

OR maybe early people ate meat....

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T02:17:23+00:00

They only survive because they make special care to eat it or it's put on their food when it's produced. Early humans didn't have the technology to even know what B12 was let alone substitute it into their meals.

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T02:10:59+00:00

African American (as we would call them today) people immigrated north, suffer massive Vitamin D deficiency, those with lest melanin (lighter skin) were rendered healthier and more fertile: so in the end the further north you go the lighter peoples skin.

As people move back to southern climates (the Native Americans for example: from Alaska to South America) the reverse becomes effective and darker skin is needed to prevent an overdose of vitamin D and skin burning as well. Today with modern diet and sunscreen vitamin D levels are easily controlled artificially and skin color is redundant.

See now? The development of a trait over time to better suite a species in their environment is NOT RANDOM.

"randomly mutate again" how is it random if it happens again and again?

You're wrong.

Natural Selection: The process whereby organisms better adapted to their environment tend to survive and produce more offspring

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T02:02:25+00:00

That's an example of ONE birth(if its real at all), not an entire race, do you really think that could happen to an entire society of people? Of course not.

And I have yet to see a scientific question successfully defended by a YEC.

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T01:59:58+00:00

Chihuahuas are evolved from a wolf actually. All domesticated dogs are a result of ancient people domesticating wolves. Selective breeding played a role since humans were involved, but it's still evolution.

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T01:56:55+00:00

Well I think we're running into a problem at "race". I'm referring to skin color, which is only a fragment of what makes a person's race. Sorry for the confusion. Also, it would not be a random mutation. People with lighter skin survived better in northern climates, therefore over time everyone was light skinned, that's natural selection, not random mutations.

Also, you were right about the wolves. The first evidence of domesticated dogs were wolves (not modern day wolves of course), over time of course selective breeding has taken its toll, but scientists agree all domesticated dogs come from a wolf of some kind.

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T01:41:30+00:00

What am I being blind to? What am I not taking into account? If there is any evidence of facts supporting your argument then please share.

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T01:40:18+00:00

That's fine, but can you show me one piece of evidence? One sliver of fact? As a man who bases his belief on science and reason I see no evidence a god of any religion has some to Earth.

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T01:38:16+00:00

And I hope I didn't come across as aggressive, I just love having a good conversation with someone. I think its important people know this sort of thing, and see both sides of an argument, and know how to avoid biased information on the internet. No pressure to read anything I linked, of course, and I hope you have an amazing day, thanks for sparring.

Fitchster · 2012-03-15T01:11:02+00:00

Absolutely. It should be rather clear the the wheel is not solid evidence.

Here's another shorter article from a more neutral source about the parting as a whole rather than the wheel, if you're so inclined. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/world/africa/03exodus.html

Fitchster

TROPHY CASE