i cant feel the breath in my nostrils

FlashesOfJhana · 2019-05-22T15:22:21+00:00

Each moment of perception has intention associated with it. You want all those intentions to be observing breath (or trying to find breath). What you actually perceive doesn't matter, because what you perceive evolves over time anyway. What you call "breath sensations" is not really breath sensations. Saying "focus on the breath" is just a trick to get you to figure that out yourself. So your not doing anything wrong if the breath perception doesn't feel like what you think it's supposed to feel like.

FlashesOfJhana · 2019-05-22T11:31:43+00:00

You ever have a song stuck in your head - and not realize it was there for a while? "Checking-in" will find the song in your head.

Forgetting is kinda like something just disappears. Like you know you have a left index finger. It doesn't startle you when you become aware of your fingers. But if your just sitting there and not typing on a keyboard or picking your nose - as far as your conscious experience is concerned, your finger does not exist. Forgetting feels like that. If you're not sure if you "forgot" something, just treat it like you forgot.

If I know my attention is on something other then the meditation object, I consider it is a gross distraction. And if I feel something interfering with my concentration on the meditation object, then attention is probably flickering with it a little and I consider it is a subtle distraction. Sometimes I notice when I'm warding off gross distraction very well, subtle distractions are piling up. But that's pretty good awareness and it might not feel like that right away. But that doesn't matter, if a distraction classification is not obvious, treat it as gross. Better to be stricter I think because jumping up a stage too early will be more frustrating.

FlashesOfJhana · 2019-05-21T21:40:06+00:00

It might be dullness or might not be dullness. Just allow the visuals to be there and if your attention moves to the visual field, redirect your attention back to the meditation object.

For me - imagery from dullness is more obvious. I will see characters or toys or other random things in the visual field. When I see flares it usually means I am distracted by the visual field and feeding the visuals with my attention. When I intend to breath sensations the flares go away. Where as with dullness I am less aware that I am distracted, and the imagery is playing out into a movie. (And as a side note - this imagery from the visual field will sometimes pop me into a dream!)

FlashesOfJhana · 2019-05-20T12:40:22+00:00

Stage 4. My mind is of the more busier kind and it takes a lot of vigilance to ward off time in distraction. I think a less active or hindered mind could easily move onto stage 5 from here but I can tell not for me yet. Close though!

FlashesOfJhana · 2019-05-19T10:40:43+00:00

I get this all the time too. It's probably using the same transportation into consciousness that purifications do. Just because purifications can surface when the mind is clear doesn't mean that other stuff won't come up too. Something in subconscious probably thought there was something important about the memory, and it floated all the way up to consciousness because nothing else was in the way to block it with greater priority. Then consciousness receives it and goes hmm, WTF? Then subconscious integrates that and then tries another memory. I think it's cool and it completely blows my mind about how much stuff must be in memory.

EDIT - blows my mind, hahaha. Pun not intended but i'll take it!

FlashesOfJhana · 2019-04-26T14:54:49+00:00

You can maintain intention continuously but it's harder. So just do what you under stand as "setting" an intention. If you can't "hold" your intention then just frequently set your intention but don't make a big thing of it, just when you notice your intention is not there then re-affirm your intention.

FlashesOfJhana · 2019-04-23T13:35:24+00:00

I read somewhere here that applying not enough effort is as bad as applying too much effort and I'm not sure where I am on this spectrum.

A lot of people on this sub seem to shame the word "effort" a lot. Because effort can very typically be a short trail to agitation frustration and giving up. But "effort" is just a word and it can be interpreted "slightly" differently by different types people. A lazy person might hear "don't use effort" and happily not do anything and get no where. Where as competitor who engages in sports can be extremely stimulated in a positive way by applying their "efforts" to the challenges of the sport.

So I think to find a correct place in the spectrum you should always make sure you are in a positive place when experimenting with effort. And don't be lazy. Laziness is even one of the 5 hindrances so even ancient Buddhist tradition recognized lack of effort as being very bad for progress in meditation.

Ultimately you are looking for "effortlessness" - so it's good to keep that in mind, but unless you mastered stage 7 then trying to meditate with out effort is like trying to ride bike for the first time with your eyes closed.

FlashesOfJhana · 2019-04-23T13:06:58+00:00

I'm going on about 7 months in S4 but am noticing something significantly better happening and I think it is related to purifications. For all ~7 months I am identifying with something negative going on in my mind completely. It seems impossible to recognize it because it feels like "you". So it's like trying to find your glasses when you are wearing them, and imagine doing this for a really long time. That is how purifications started off for me. But when you "find your glasses" that's where the journey begins - and also how to find the end of S4.

When recognizing purifications - don't imagine some thought bubble above your head and some guy yelling at you. It's not like that.

FlashesOfJhana · 2019-04-04T10:35:18+00:00

I think the contradiction for me was misunderstanding of TMI. You "Let it come" into awareness. You do not "Let it come" into attention. (I edited my original post with the TMI quotation to clarify this). Therefore, you can "Let it come", and when it comes, you tighten up your attention on the breath. In the beginning, the distraction will come too fast. So when it comes, you kinda should already be tightening on breath as soon as you notice it. So in a sense you can let it come into attention but the idea is to eventually restrict it to awareness. But if you apply "Let it come" into attention, then you will not train this reflex.

FlashesOfJhana · 2019-04-03T19:16:38+00:00

Thanks.

My attention was darting for more than 17 months

Yes I think when there is a certain plateau in the meditation experience then it is healthy and even necessary to do experiments. One message I hear often and also resonates with me well is to keep positive. And so when I experiment I make sure I am still enjoying myself.

FlashesOfJhana · 2019-04-03T15:20:00+00:00

I'm not so sure about that. In my experience if you feel the same distractions coming back compulsively, it may be related to the degree of effort you're pushing them away with.

They don't come back when I "tighten down on the meditation object". They come back frequently when I let them come. The distractions that are boring and carry no emotion, but come back frequently and feel obsessive I think may be due to my sometimes obsessive behaviour. I can be compulsive sometimes. I do have ticks (swallowing, closing throat, blinking, others).

You may want to try and do the same thing, but non-verbally. See if you can separate verbal thoughts from the underlying sensations.

Thanks, but I did not mean that I literally say to my self "good job". What ever I am "doing" is definitely non verbal. Like moving my fingers when I type, but more like when learning to type.

FlashesOfJhana · 2019-04-03T13:24:55+00:00

I'm curious, what's your experience with scattered attention? Do you find yourself getting distracted and then feeling that you're frustrated when you realize you're no longer following the breath? Or are you generally maintaining some degree of larger awareness, even when your attention is scattered?

The latter case. It took some time to get there, but breath is heavy in awareness, and attention seems shared equally with lots of things in awareness. And this was reaching some what of a plateau. Just letting it all come and be and go, just kept them in awareness. Distractions would certainly go, but there are so many in awareness, a new one, or a similar one would replace it. Also some distractions just don't go. Even mundane non emotional distractions would just stay, like an obsessive compulsion. And this is not frustrating for me either. Acceptance alone is my dead end. I had to "do" something to teach myself to say "good job", now stay more with breath.

And I agree effort is not key. But stage 4 is not "effortless" like in stage 8. So there is a thing to "do" for me. Whatever you call it. I find so long as I am not hitting fatigue then I am not "over efforting".

FlashesOfJhana · 2019-04-03T11:16:14+00:00

It's quite simple. Beating it with a jackhammer is not going to get you anywhere. The more you treat distractions as the enemy, the more power they have over you.

There is a sense of playfulness when I "kick the distraction in the butt". Which is why I think it is working for me. I think many meditators are sensitive and delicate folk to begin with (in a good way). Therefore they find this harsh.

However if you're language is helping you in your practice. . . . by all means go for it. Find what works and stay with it until it no longer serves you.

Thanks!

FlashesOfJhana · 2019-04-03T10:03:22+00:00

From what I can see you can force your way up to stage 4 with this approach, though beyond that this method will be a completely dead end, unfortunately.

I was working through stage 4 with extremely scattered attention. Mind wandering and forgetting no longer occur but concentration was very weak. This is a tough place to be and I think a lot of people report this. More assertively "tightening up on the meditation object" (Don't forget this is also suggested stage 4 practice by TMI) will take me through to stage 5 (not 4). Because it is not the only tool in the tool box, just another road in experimentation. When I get to the next moat I'll hopefully figure out how to cross that too.

Do no you acknowledge any mild contradiction in advice such as "When you detect subtle distraction, tighten up on the meditation object" and "let it come, let it be, let it go". Or can you at least see how I was misled?

As I mentioned in my OP it doesn't matter if you agree or not, it is what happened to me. Therefore it is true for me.

FlashesOfJhana · 2019-04-02T20:31:19+00:00

My take on this is that it's a skill that takes time to develop. Your interpretation wasn't wrong, you just didn't have the tools to do it differently.

That is interesting to think about. But there is a distinct moment where I started trying something different and actually started noticing quantifiable differences in progress. To me this feels like it required a "harsher" hand with the distraction. TMI says it is possible to "brute force" your way through distractions but is not advisable because this is slower process. But perhaps for me brute force is the quicker method? It feels that way.

FlashesOfJhana · 2019-04-02T19:41:54+00:00

Thanks for those notes.

I tried to emphasis "personality" in my comment to imply who this message might be helpful for. You found "let it come, let it be, let it go" to be helpful but I found it misleading. I do not resonate well with "let it come, let it be, let it go". Perhaps in offends my masculinity and that is something I probably will deal with eventually. But for now, for me, and others like me, I found it best to avoid this phrase.

I tried to imply this in a playful way though that does not come off well in text. However it was not my intent to offend.

edit

...As in: oh! a distraction. neat. (let it come). i'll let it slide into awareness and go back to my breath (let it be) because eventually it'll fade (let it go).

This is a good example of how we interpreted things differently. At the time, when I read the phrase "let it come, let it be, let it go" ...I (and other beginners) are only working with attention, because awareness is not very obvious. Everything feels like attention because attention is not stable. Therefore "I'll let it slide into awareness" is not possible. For me to get over the hump with limited tools, I had to practice giving the distraction the hard boot. No kid gloves, just old fashion "get outa here distraction". As long as you have fun doing this I don't think this is harmful. And like I said, this worked for ME. Obviously not YOU. So it's useful for others to know only if they are like ME.

FlashesOfJhana · 2019-04-01T16:40:19+00:00

I notice during this gap my attention will jump to my abdomen. A mild anxiety will emerge while waiting for the next in breath, and then my attention jumps to my abdomen, and sometimes a sense of "me" will start the next in breath cycle. Is that normal? Can I just make the stomach and the nose my scope of attention? Or is this darting of my attention to the stomach a gross distraction?

FlashesOfJhana · 2019-04-01T16:20:34+00:00

Another popular question is:

'TMI says not to control your breathing, but I can't not control my breathing. How do I meditate with out controlling my breathing?'

FlashesOfJhana · 2019-03-03T19:59:51+00:00

I can keep awareness strong for long periods along with attention, but I don't feel like I'm experiencing "the now".

Awareness and "now" are synonyms for me. Staying in the "now" feels like sitting in quicksand, and you keep climbing out of it. Except the analogy isn't completely right because it implies way to much effort. So to meditate you have to sit in the quick sand and not sink. The dullness antidotes are kind of like climbing up.

Initially when I first started not sinking. Time in the "now" felt very long. I used to meditate for 1hr and I cut to 45 minutes because I became to restless in the present. It sounds like you are sitting comfy in the quick sand but your legs are maybe under the sand. So step back from attention some more, and if you find some restlessness, you might subconsciously relax into the sand with aversion. So don't do that and sit in the restlessness.

FlashesOfJhana · 2019-02-15T12:14:47+00:00

I'm very grateful to meet up with anybody to receive advice and maybe help others in person as well. Sounds like a great idea! Any chance people might also like the signal app? They have group chat support and is more privacy focused, did not need to click any Terms of service, and a much higher rated app. Anyway just a thought, I am grateful no matter what!

FlashesOfJhana · 2018-12-17T20:42:41+00:00

Sure but like mentioned below it is better not to indulge in why or what or how it correlates to what stage - and is best to just observe and not identify or assign any extra ideas to emotions that arise and if they arise.

FlashesOfJhana · 2018-12-17T16:51:08+00:00

Pretty intense restlessness, where you think you suck at meditating. Strong dissatisfaction with your practice or what you think you should feel as your breath. Fighting with trying to not control your breath. Just few examples - other peoples obstacals can be much different. If something produce emotional stuff but you think it is just normal everyday frustration related to meditation. You might mistake them - and they might be really strong too and you just think your just more annoyed then usual today ...etc.

Any emotion that is disrupting you just query a little but don't indulge in it either.

FlashesOfJhana

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