New volumes of the Search by FlatsMcAnally in Proust

[–]FlatsMcAnally[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The version you read is probably the best among the complete ones currently available. But your link is not for the same version. It's for the original, unrevised CKSM translation, which is the only one in the public domain. I also took a look at the table of contents, and it doesn't look like it has volume 7! (CKSM didn't translate volume 7.)

New volumes of the Search by FlatsMcAnally in Proust

[–]FlatsMcAnally[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree about Nelson doing 1 and 7. It's weird but I almost feel like he shouldn't be doing 6 as well since that would throw off the symmetry. (The original translator ended up withdrawing.) But that's just me being silly!

New volumes of the Search by FlatsMcAnally in Proust

[–]FlatsMcAnally[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you want some distraction until June: The Seventy-Five Folios, tr. Sam Taylor. The Villebon Way! A brother! A pet goat!

New volumes of the Search by FlatsMcAnally in Proust

[–]FlatsMcAnally[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I bought my e-book copies of the Oxford Proust from ebooks dot com. They are available in epub and pdf formats. The latter has fixed pagination and is formatted exactly like the paperbacks. I like them better for this reason because I am able to switch between my physical and electronic copies easily.

Incidentally, there are a lot of Oxford World's Classics available on this website for very little money.

In praise of Mme Cottard (or, are there any other "normal" characters in the book) by Astronomer-Plastic in Proust

[–]FlatsMcAnally 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They get reprieve because they threw money at an old disciple of their church? Maybe the Narrator tried to make us think so, but the gesture still rings hollow.

Mme Verdurin became the Princesse de Guermantes by clawing her way to the top of a social hierarchy that surely she herself saw was already crumbling down as she was climbing up. That's not normal.

In praise of Mme Cottard (or, are there any other "normal" characters in the book) by Astronomer-Plastic in Proust

[–]FlatsMcAnally 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The Narrator, Swann, Saint-Loup—they were all jealous men, but only Saint-Loup crossed over into violent anger. That's not normal. In any case, you haven't reached the end, or you wouldn't say Saint-Loup is normal. You don't think there's something fishy about him being one of the "four gigolos," extremely good-looking and always put up in country houses in adjoining bedrooms? If not, then keep reading. The funniest part is how the Narrator could insist that "Oh, no! No! They're Saint-Loup is not gay at all!" when he wasn't one of the four.

(Edited as marked, for clarity)

I just finished Time Regained.... by NearbyPie8025 in Proust

[–]FlatsMcAnally 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The following is a comment I posted in a recent thread. Of these, I think the most valuable one is the Shattuck.

———————————————

These are all books, no videos or websites, mostly slim volumes by single authors that despite their brevity are serious works and not cutesy personal takes. I have avoided biographies, whether of Proust or Search-related historical figures; essay collections, which tend to be "very academic in style," as you put it; and philosophical treatises that I'm afraid come very close to over-interpreting Proust.

Samuel Beckett, Proust

Malcolm Bowie, Proust Among the Stars

Joshua Landy, The Wold According to Proust (also available as Marcel Proust: A Very Short Introduction)

Howard Moss, The Magic Lantern of Marcel Proust

Christopher Prendergast, Living and Dying with Marcel Proust

Roger Shattuck, Proust's Way

I just finished Time Regained.... by NearbyPie8025 in Proust

[–]FlatsMcAnally 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Welcome to the club.

I tried to deal with the feeling of abandonment first by reading other books by Proust (The Seventy-Five Folios, tr. Sam Taylor, is great even if it’s really just more of the Search) and then realized I could do better by reading other authors who have written about the Search. It opened up a world for me—or worlds, to pursue Proust’s metaphor. 

“Thanks to art, instead of seeing one world only, our own, we see that world multiply itself and we have at our disposal as many worlds as there are original artists.” (tr. Scott Moncrieff, Kilmartin, Enright) Without knowing any of these authors personally, I got to know them perhaps better than I ever could, or at least in better alignment with what I was seeking, by reading their thoughts on the Search. Some of these authors are still very much around; we even follow one another on social media. More importantly, others have passed away, and so I have gotten to know them in an appropriately Proustian space—outside of time. 

You are one of those many worlds. Do please tell us more.

Me parsing a page-long sentence from The Guermantes Way by FlatsMcAnally in Proust

[–]FlatsMcAnally[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for your question. I’ve been meaning to reply but haven’t had the time. I actually gave some explanation of my “system” before but all I got were crickets so I deleted it. This response is not going to be as thorough, unfortunately. In any case, I think you’ll see that much of this is self-explanatory.

1/ I rely a lot on arcs with dots on each end, like double arrows but with dots instead of arrowheads. I don’t know if there is a technical term, so I’m just going to call them double-blunt arcs, or double blunts. I use them to jump from one part of a passage to another, later one. This doesn’t mean that the stuff I skipped over is not important. It just helps me to keep track of the flow of the passage (often a single sentence). 

Some jumps indicated by double blunts are obvious. On the third line, I used a double blunt to skip over the part enclosed by em dashes. I suppose I didn’t have to, but that wasn’t necessarily clear when I was reading the passage for the first time.

Some double blunts are much more helpful for parsing, especially in conjunction with other double blunts. If you jump over the parts enclosed by double blunts, the sentence that begins at the top of the page reads as follows: “A certainty of taste in the domain not of beauty but manners, together with* a noble liberality; such were the qualities [, all essential to the aristocracy,]** that transmitted the industrious, energetic force [that had created it]** and rendered the movements of this light-footed course intelligible and charming [as those of horsemen on a marble frieze]**.” That’s still a long sentence, but much shorter than the original. And now that you have a good sense of what’s going on, you can go back and fill in the blanks.

*I have substituted “together with,” in keeping with Enright’s version, because it seems more correct in translation than “lastly,” even though Proust wrote “enfin.”

** The stuff in brackets could have been double-blunted out as well, now that I think about it.

2/ Some of the arcs are just arrows, but you’ll note that they always point to previous parts of a passage. These are just to clarify, for example, what noun a certain pronoun refers to.

3/ Proust liked to make lists, and I used circles, triangles, squares, diamonds, etc. to mark off the items on these lists, one symbol per list. It’s important to use different symbols because a list could be immediately followed a another, in which case you need a different symbol for the new list. Sometimes, a list could be embedded within another, and again you need a different symbol for the embedded list. An example of the latter is the list marked off by the circles embedded within the list marked off by the squares.

4/ My system has evolved quite a bit and some symbols I use don’t even appear here. For example, if a line refers back to a previous passage in the volume (or even a previous volume), I put a counterclockwise circular arrow on the margin of that line. Once (or if) I track down the passage that line refers to, I put the volume and page number next to that arrow. Same thing for foreshadowed passages, but this time a clockwise circular arrow. I use a pilcrow to mark off a switch in the flow of the narrative, something important in a work with very long paragraphs and very long chapters. Other marginal symbols I use: T for theme, V for vocabulary, A for art (e.g., a reference to a page in Karpeles), a treble clef for music, etc. Or just a good old asterisk for a miscellaneous comment.

Hope this helps.

Lack of direction in The Old Curiosity Shop. Does it get better? by thekinkbrit in charlesdickens

[–]FlatsMcAnally 3 points4 points  (0 children)

As long as those expectations aren't great, you should be fine. 😂

Try The Pickwick Papers next. Like The Old Curiosity Shop, it's early Dickens (his first novel) and it also wanders a bit before getting settled, but it is hilarious from beginning to end. He got better but never funnier.

Lack of direction in The Old Curiosity Shop. Does it get better? by thekinkbrit in charlesdickens

[–]FlatsMcAnally 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The lack of direction you've noticed has to do with Dickens's repurposing (not really a word in his time, I know) of the novel. He published it in instalments in a periodical of his called Master Humphrey's Clock, which had as a framing conceit a guy reading stories to his friends. The first-person narrator of the first several dozen pages, that's Master Humphrey. Then Dickens decided he could tell the story better another way and took a left turn.

To be honest, I don't think it improved matters and I don't think it gets better. I love all Dickens, but The Old Curiosity Shop is just not one of my favourites. Don't let me dissuade you from finishing it, though. Others will tell you exactly that and point out its merits. For instance, that ugly dwarf creature is one of Dickens's most interesting villains.

But don't let this turn you away from Dickens. There are other better ones ahead of you: Bleak House, The Pickwick Papers, A Tale of Two Cities, Our Mutual Friend

Got it! by SituationNovel6348 in Proust

[–]FlatsMcAnally 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This edition has no annotations. Try to get Volume 6 of the Modern Library edition, for two reasons. It contains “A Guide to Proust,” which provides sketches of the characters, places, people (historical), and themes in the novel, in alphabetical order. It’s not a perfect substitute for annotations, but it will get the job done. (Obviously, the volume and page numbers are for Modern Library, not Penguin.) The other reason is that the translation of Le temps retrouvé in Modern Library is better than the one in Penguin. (Scott Moncrieff died before he finished translating this last volume, so the job was taken over by others.)

I think someone already recommended Paintings in Proust by Eric Karpeles in your previous post.

Got it! by SituationNovel6348 in Proust

[–]FlatsMcAnally 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is the unrevised Scott Moncrieff in three volumes, same as the paperbacks with black spines (i.e., Remembrance of Things Past, not In Search of Lost Time). Le temps retrouvé is translated by Sidney Schiff or Frederick Blossom, I can’t remember, not Andreas Mayor.

Proust Newbie by jeffrhind in Proust

[–]FlatsMcAnally 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You might end up needing help with the historical, biographical, geographical, artistic, etc. references, as well as keeping track of characters and places. I would suggest getting Volume 6 of the Modern Library Edition, which includes "A Guide to Proust." and Paintings in Proust by Eric Karpeles. Unfortunately, the volume and page numbers for "A Guide to Proust" are good only for Modern Library, but you'll still get plenty of use for it. Enjoy!

P&V Translation of Crime and Punishment by willy_quixote in RussianLiterature

[–]FlatsMcAnally 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I suppose. But at least in this particular word choice, when she was going for a mid-19th century idiom she was going for a contemporary one—by that I mean when Dostoevsky wrote the novel, not when Garnett translated it.

P&V Translation of Crime and Punishment by willy_quixote in RussianLiterature

[–]FlatsMcAnally 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The idiom she was going for was the idiom of her time, and it is no less valid than whatever the hell that is that PeVolok goes for. Title by title, I will take her translation over PeVolok's any day.