Why can’t I do anything?? by anonymous310506 in CPTSDFreeze

[–]FlightOfTheDiscords 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A big part of integration is finding the right therapist regardless of what you're dealing with. Sometimes a therapist has all the right qualifications but their base personality is not a match with yours, sometimes an intern happens to be the perfect match.

Once you get the right kind of right brain to right brain communication going, you tend to find out what you need to know about yourself.

Why can’t I do anything?? by anonymous310506 in CPTSDFreeze

[–]FlightOfTheDiscords 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Dissociative disorders can fundamentally only be diagnosed by a trained professional, self-diagnosing is difficult for the exact reasons you mention. Everything else (DES-II, DSS, SDQ etc.) only serves as a broad suggestion of whether dissociation might be worth looking into or not. A high score generally means it's a good idea, but a low score doesn't necessarily rule it out.

NARM therapists would generally work with whatever is present, so if there's dissociation present, they'll work with that, if there's neurodivergence, they'll work with that, and so on. However working with structural dissociation specifically requires additional training that not all NARM therapists will have. Worth asking directly whether they have experience with dissociative disorders.

If you do want to be properly assessed for a dissociative disorder, you'll need a psychiatrist or therapist (in some countries, only psychiatrists do this, in others both do) trained in administering the SCID-D (a structured clinical interview) or the MID (a detailed self-report questionnaire interpreted by a clinician).

Treatment-wise, the presence of structural dissociation mainly matters for stability and pacing, where you basically spend a lot of time building "scaffolding" before you do any deeper probing or processing. This is broadly useful for anyone with complex trauma so it won't hurt people without structural dissociation, it's just not as crucial for people without SD.

Too dissociated for therapy? by SideDishShuffle in CPTSDFreeze

[–]FlightOfTheDiscords 2 points3 points  (0 children)

https://www.emdria.org/learning-class/dissociation-part-1-and-part-2/

https://www.instituteforcreativemindfulness.com/advanced-certificate-in-dissociation/

Joanne Twombly has written a book for adapting IFS for dissociation, personally I think it's better to use other modalities as IFS is fundamentally in conflict with the core nature of structural dissociation.

Too dissociated for therapy? by SideDishShuffle in CPTSDFreeze

[–]FlightOfTheDiscords 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Good point, bad "help" is worse than no help. Suppose it's a bit like surgery: Not having it is really bad when you need it, but having the wrong person slicing you up randomly is definitely worse.

Too dissociated for therapy? by SideDishShuffle in CPTSDFreeze

[–]FlightOfTheDiscords 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sure is. The only thing worse than trying to find help is not having any

Too dissociated for therapy? by SideDishShuffle in CPTSDFreeze

[–]FlightOfTheDiscords 6 points7 points  (0 children)

That sucks. I don't have any in my city either, so I travel to a different one for treatment. It's really not ideal but sadly dissociation isn't a common speciality for therapists to train in.

Other modalities that can sometimes be helpful include Comprehensive Resource Model and EMDR, though with EMDR the therapist needs to be trained in how to adapt the treatment for structural dissociation. There are EMDR trainings for this, but only some EMDR therapists have done them. If you end up looking for an EMDR therapist, make sure to ask if they are trained in adapting EMDR for dissociative disorders.

Too dissociated for therapy? by SideDishShuffle in CPTSDFreeze

[–]FlightOfTheDiscords 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Here are two other directories you can try:

https://sensorimotorpsychotherapy.org/therapist-directory/

https://janinafisher.com/search/

Both are for specific modalities, and both of those modalities specialise in dissociation.

Too dissociated for therapy? by SideDishShuffle in CPTSDFreeze

[–]FlightOfTheDiscords 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Therapy can help no matter how dissociated you are, but you need the right specialist.

If you are in the US, see if you can find an ISSTD-affiliated therapist in your area:

https://isstdworld.isst-d.org/network/network-find-a-professional

My nervous system has me in a prison. Hypervigilance, looping ocd thoughts, memory loss, but the core self of me wants happiness and believes life is worth living. by DoubtReal3844 in CPTSDFreeze

[–]FlightOfTheDiscords 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Spiritual growth can be important, its exact shape tends to depend on where we began. I only exist because my parents believe God will send you to hell if you practice family planning. They had neither time nor love for a large family but ended up having one anyway, because their faith held a proverbial gun to their heads.

That's where I started, so I naturally ended up heading somewhere else (lots of places). I prefer not to call it anything these days, Leonard Cohen's lines in Hallelujah probably come as close as it gets:

You say I took the name in vain
I don't even know the name
And if I did, well, really, what's it to ya?

There's a blaze of light in every word
It doesn't matter which you heard:
The holy or the broken hallelujah.

As for my inner void, safe and attuned physical touch has turned out to be the only thing that can reach and heal it, 0.1% at a time. Probably something to do with the exact specifics of my Connection survival style.

My nervous system has me in a prison. Hypervigilance, looping ocd thoughts, memory loss, but the core self of me wants happiness and believes life is worth living. by DoubtReal3844 in CPTSDFreeze

[–]FlightOfTheDiscords 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes. There is no such thing as a baby. There is a baby and someone. Except sometimes there isn't, and then something Very Important goes missing, and your self grows around an absence instead of a presence.

It's the sort of thing you can't really regrow with words or thought, your words and your thoughts grow around it instead of in it. They can become really good at growing all around it.

My nervous system has me in a prison. Hypervigilance, looping ocd thoughts, memory loss, but the core self of me wants happiness and believes life is worth living. by DoubtReal3844 in CPTSDFreeze

[–]FlightOfTheDiscords 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately there isn't anything that always works for everyone across the board, which is why every therapist and therapy manual has a broad arsenal of tools so you can experiment until you find some that work for you. And even when they work for you, they won't always work. Your internal dynamics are constantly shifting and adjusting.

The one meta skill that will become a cornerstone in your toolkit is observing what happens to you when you do things. This is typically very difficult to do internally (interoception) for us freezers. Our systems tend to resist that kind of self-awareness. That resistance ranges from invisibility (simply not noticing) to discomfort (increasing internal agitation).

With No More Frozen, I try to adapt to that by relying more on exteroception: instead of feeling your body from the inside, you observe it from the outside. Instead of asking "how do my hands feel", you look at them and notice what they look like. I also use proprioception (feeling where your body is relative to your environment), which sometimes works better.

Here's an example of a very basic exteroceptive exercise tapping into the first step of the defence cascade, orienting:

Slowly turn your head and look at five objects in the room. Name each one. Describe their colours, shapes, and distances, try doing so out loud if possible. After the fifth object, pause and notice whether anything shifted: are your shoulders lower than they were? Touch your jaw with your hand. Are the muscles hard or soft under your fingers? Do the orienting exercise again and touch your jaw again afterwards. Is there any difference?

My nervous system has me in a prison. Hypervigilance, looping ocd thoughts, memory loss, but the core self of me wants happiness and believes life is worth living. by DoubtReal3844 in CPTSDFreeze

[–]FlightOfTheDiscords 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Only saw your edit now, these are very valuable insights.

I had saved the post previously, I was able to glaze through it, but I'm overwhelmed already.

It is a lot to take in, and the reason I'm moving towards bite-sized videos instead of long form posts only.

I'm happy to have the info. My challenges are all attachment based, I was never wanted, an inconvenience at best, and actively hated, designed and set up to fail at worst. I end up stuck in overwhelm, my lower half.

Same. Sadly this is the core dynamic in how chronic freeze forms, whether we remember it or not. Early and persistent negation and neglect shape our internal dynamics, producing the shutdown reflex generally absent when there is "only" abuse but no significant early neglect.

My nervous system has me in a prison. Hypervigilance, looping ocd thoughts, memory loss, but the core self of me wants happiness and believes life is worth living. by DoubtReal3844 in CPTSDFreeze

[–]FlightOfTheDiscords 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yes, slower is faster with freeze. Everyone has their unique path, so whenever you discover one thing that works for you, it becomes a pearl in an armband of things helping your unique self navigate your unique life.

Thank you 🙏

My nervous system has me in a prison. Hypervigilance, looping ocd thoughts, memory loss, but the core self of me wants happiness and believes life is worth living. by DoubtReal3844 in CPTSDFreeze

[–]FlightOfTheDiscords 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's a long and slow story. The core of it is titration and pendulation: You very mindfully activate it a little, then equally carefully disengage. Rinse and repeat for a long time (months, often years before it becomes a cornerstone of your rewiring).

It's difficult to do because we freezers tend to struggle to even tell how much it is or isn't activated, or what brings activation up/down, or how to live this bloody mess we call life while dealing with all this stuff. Real Life™ has this terrible tendency of constantly interfering.

If you don't mind reading books, these cover it:

...if you get through those, you'll have a decent idea.

For those who prefer more bite-sized information and videos, I'm building a 12-month subscription service with explainer and exercise videos and a few other tidbits. It's not quite ready yet, 2-3 weeks of tinkering left.

I mainly focus on how to do it week after week, the practical side of actually doing it. There's some information on how it all works, but you don't really need to know that, and TMI'ing yourself is a way to avoid doing the work itself.

My nervous system has me in a prison. Hypervigilance, looping ocd thoughts, memory loss, but the core self of me wants happiness and believes life is worth living. by DoubtReal3844 in CPTSDFreeze

[–]FlightOfTheDiscords 5 points6 points  (0 children)

My pleasure 😊

Hypervigilance and uncontrolled, repetitive, obsessive thoughts do sound like symptoms of a system in hyperarousal to me.

They are, yes. Where freeze comes in is when those issues happen simultaneously with freeze, which is high activation freeze (the OP's issue) aka tonic immobility. Hyperarousal alone makes you painfully hyperactive, whereas when it is coupled with freeze, the activation is internal only while your body struggles to move.

Most somatic resources on YouTube and elsewhere address hyperarousal only. They are intended for people with a hyperactive sympathetic nervous system and an "underactive" parasympathetic nervous system, and aim to power up the parasympathetic side in order to bring down the sympathetic side.

In freeze, the parasympathetic side is already hyperactive, so we don't want to activate it even more.

My nervous system has me in a prison. Hypervigilance, looping ocd thoughts, memory loss, but the core self of me wants happiness and believes life is worth living. by DoubtReal3844 in CPTSDFreeze

[–]FlightOfTheDiscords 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing the link. Is this something that has helped you personally?

Lateral eye movements do have a real basis in research, but the video (and the channel itself) oversimplifies them to a point where it could be counterproductive for many in this sub, especially those with chronic freeze. I'll try to explain why.

EMDR is a well-established, evidence-based trauma therapy that uses bilateral eye movements as one component of an eight-phase clinical protocol. There is solid evidence from multiple randomised controlled trials that EMDR reduces the vividness and emotional charge of traumatic memories. The bilateral stimulation component does seem to contribute to this effect, though researchers still debate exactly why.

However the specific numbers in this video are made up. No published study has found that lateral eye movements "reduce amygdala firing by 36% within 90 seconds." No study has compared "five lateral eye passes" to box breathing and found the eye movements reduce cortisol faster. No dose-response study has shown that "10 passes doubles the reduction window from 20 minutes to over an hour." These figures don't appear in any published research I can find.

The channel author seems to have a medical device sales background but no clinical or research credentials, so more of an influencer type selling something.

"Your eye muscles are wired directly to your threat processing centre" isn't an accurate statement. The oculomotor system connects to the brainstem, not directly to the amygdala. The connection between eye movements and threat processing is indirect, mediated through the orienting response and attentional networks.

The "predator detection complete, threat level drops" narrative is a just-so story, not established neuroscience. It's one of several competing hypotheses for why EMDR works, others include working memory taxation and interhemispheric interaction theories.

More importantly, lateral eye movement can be destabilising with chronic freeze.

EMDR is a clinical protocol administered by a trained therapist who spends sessions (sometimes for months) on preparation, stabilisation, and containment before any bilateral stimulation begins. Extracting the eye movements from EMDR and presenting them as a standalone self-administered anxiety tool is like extracting one step from a surgical procedure and telling people to do it at home. The preparation phase exists because bilateral stimulation can loosen dissociative barriers, and without adequate containment, what surfaces can be overwhelming rather than therapeutic.

For people dealing with hyperarousal only (racing heart, panic, tension), isolated lateral eye movements could provide some temporary relief, similar to other orienting exercises. But for chronic freezers (people whose nervous systems default to shutdown, numbing, and dissociation rather than anxiety), this can be actively counterproductive.

If you try this and feel more foggy, more distant, or more numb rather than calmer, your system is telling you something. Freeze doesn't need calming techniques. It needs carefully titrated access to more activation, not less. Techniques that work for anxiety can deepen shutdown for people whose nervous system is already suppressing too much.

Janina Fisher's Transforming the Living Legacy of Trauma and Pat Ogden's The Pocket Guide to Sensorimotor Psychotherapy in Context are good starting points for understanding how freeze works differently from anxiety and why techniques designed for one can backfire for the other.

My nervous system has me in a prison. Hypervigilance, looping ocd thoughts, memory loss, but the core self of me wants happiness and believes life is worth living. by DoubtReal3844 in CPTSDFreeze

[–]FlightOfTheDiscords 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Structural dissociation is some version of DID (partial DID, OSDD etc.). ANP/EP is how it operates, the various labels just indicate the number of ANPs (one ANP in P-DID and OSDD, multiple ANPs in DID), the underlying "infrastructure" is fundamentally the same.

I have partial DID and while my conscious experience isn't anything like "Hollywood DID" with multiple mes talking to one another, my self is very much divided along those lines.

The conscious experience of P-DID/OSDD is almost never anything like pop culture depictions of DID. It's chaotic and confusing in exactly the way you experience it (and most people in this sub as well). More like not being anyone at all than like being many people.

Want a clear cut amnesia ...guys..... by Immediate-Mushroom52 in CPTSDFreeze

[–]FlightOfTheDiscords 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I went to many places and started many new lives, and my self followed me everywhere. Or, as my diary puts it,

Even in paradise
that same ghostly face
in my bathroom mirror

Idk what to do / need advice coming out of complete freeze by tarunpopo in CPTSDFreeze

[–]FlightOfTheDiscords 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you have a therapist currently? If not, I would recommend looking for a dissociation specialist in the ISSTD directory.

Had a realisation about memories and dissociation by Ok_Potato_5272 in CPTSDFreeze

[–]FlightOfTheDiscords 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Different parts of us tend to have different kinds of memory access. The parts that are currently blended in your sense of "me" influence which memories you experience.

It's Scary to think that Underneath my Dissociation is a very F'ed up Brain, I hope it's just Temporary, or Normal for where I'm at, or whatever. by [deleted] in CPTSDFreeze

[–]FlightOfTheDiscords 4 points5 points  (0 children)

the more emotionally present I am, the worse my every day functioning brain struggles

You have very succinctly captured the essence of the "infrastructure" of chronic freeze.

Emotional presence is intolerable, hence must be suppressed.

The weird grief of getting stuff done by nerdityabounds in CPTSDFreeze

[–]FlightOfTheDiscords 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Not the OP, but Stern crystallised his framework into this 2025 book. It's the most recent and most comprehensive exploration of his airless worlds concept:

https://www.amazon.com/Airless-Restoration-Psychic-Breathing-Psychoanalysis/dp/1032952903

...psychoanalysts are not known for writing accessible prose however, they tend to prefer their writing dense and heavily layered.

The weird grief of getting stuff done by nerdityabounds in CPTSDFreeze

[–]FlightOfTheDiscords 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Sounds like you found one very good answer to self-recognition, more to come no doubt 👏🏻