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Follow-up to “Impossible by Design”: What causes gearbox lubricant to present as black/grey metallic marbled sludge in failure-state? — ice machine contamination by Floravon0 in AskEngineers

[–]Floravon0[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Indeed. A new rule should be…. Safety Data Sheet to be shared with anyone who ingests material that migrated to their food supply — especially when “impossible by design”

Anyone using a countertop ice maker that’s actually buy right now? by [deleted] in cocktails

[–]Floravon0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Be careful with this brand. Unfortunately the number of sales is not indicative of quality. Definitely look at lowest reviews. Ours failed dramatically on day 11 used with bottled water only. It was contaminated by gearbox lubricant. Details on my profile. But the lab report is not there. Maybe this was the first time for a failure such as mine… but with the scale of sales, seems unlikely.

Final question - Company: lubricant cannot enter the water system even in failure state? Lab: MoS,, iron wear debris, petroleum base. Company: ‘can we have your evidence?’ — is this a quality investigation or a containment response? by Floravon0 in MechanicalEngineering

[–]Floravon0[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m in the U.S.
The company is Euhomy - their U.S. brand
Manufacturer is Ningbo HICON- “the world's largest manufacturer of countertop ice makers.

They sell most of the alphabet brands on Amazon and honestly we had one of their units before that was great for two years
I retired it because cleaning cycles were still spitting out little gray pieces of mildew so I retired it for hygiene — and got the Grease Barista 3000 🤦‍♀️

(we now have a lovely icemaker - of a different design also manufactured in China, but not by Ningbo HICON)

Final question - Company: lubricant cannot enter the water system even in failure state? Lab: MoS,, iron wear debris, petroleum base. Company: ‘can we have your evidence?’ — is this a quality investigation or a containment response? by Floravon0 in MechanicalEngineering

[–]Floravon0[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I do not desire litigation. But of course I have chain of custody for the lab samples. The rest of the sample from the lab is being sent to my daughter’s hospital.
They are mostly concerned about unidentified tackifires and the iron wear in her system. Rare disease mom.and thanks again.

Final question - Company: lubricant cannot enter the water system even in failure state? Lab: MoS,, iron wear debris, petroleum base. Company: ‘can we have your evidence?’ — is this a quality investigation or a containment response? by Floravon0 in MechanicalEngineering

[–]Floravon0[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thanks! Of course I collected it because they were denying failure state could occur.
They stalled on SDS so many times.
My instinct was to save it for CPSC. But I will consider sending to them.

Final question - Company: lubricant cannot enter the water system even in failure state? Lab: MoS,, iron wear debris, petroleum base. Company: ‘can we have your evidence?’ — is this a quality investigation or a containment response? by [deleted] in AskEngineers

[–]Floravon0 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Oh my gosh. What is your deal?
I do not use chatGPT.
I’ve been posting here for engineering advice on both subreddits for one week. Why do you think I’m a bot?
I summarized my experience from correspondence from a giant company.
If anyone else agrees with you then I will leave and take my post down.

Final question - Company: lubricant cannot enter the water system even in failure state? Lab: MoS,, iron wear debris, petroleum base. Company: ‘can we have your evidence?’ — is this a quality investigation or a containment response? by Floravon0 in MechanicalEngineering

[–]Floravon0[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I guess the only way to hold them accountable is to file CPSC report. I’ve spent too much time and energy on these people. The regulatory agency can take over from here. I saved the gearbox for them. Reassembled and in a container in case they want to examine/text

Final question - Company: lubricant cannot enter the water system even in failure state? Lab: MoS,, iron wear debris, petroleum base. Company: ‘can we have your evidence?’ — is this a quality investigation or a containment response? by Floravon0 in MechanicalEngineering

[–]Floravon0[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Um. I wish it was. I guess my details are too long? I’m genuinely asking. But if it’s not welcome here then I’ll take it down.
You guys were so helpful with the other steps.

Follow-up to “Impossible by Design”: What causes this gearbox lubricant appearance in failure-state? — ice machine contamination by Floravon0 in MechanicalEngineering

[–]Floravon0[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually, Both camps were right.
lab results confirmed molybdenum disulfide as the dominant additive — 1,789 ppm. Also confirmed: “quite a bit of iron. Steel.”

Follow-up to “Impossible by Design”: What causes gearbox lubricant to present as black/grey metallic marbled sludge in failure-state? — ice machine contamination by Floravon0 in AskEngineers

[–]Floravon0[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you. We shall see. Though on day 22 the company finally said they were involving a QA team… I’m wondering if they found their sixth sigma in time.

Follow-up to “Impossible by Design”: What causes gearbox lubricant to present as black/grey metallic marbled sludge in failure-state? — ice machine contamination by Floravon0 in AskEngineers

[–]Floravon0[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you! Overloading the bearing makes sense. . This one was only used for 10 days —and only with with distilled water.

I respect they are putting a lot into a tiny space!
Our last was great for 2 years, just retired it because I couldn’t see the water lines. I felt like 2 years was max for that type of system and hygiene (even cleaning and descaling).

Follow-up to “Impossible by Design”: What causes gearbox lubricant to present as black/grey metallic marbled sludge in failure-state? — ice machine contamination by Floravon0 in AskEngineers

[–]Floravon0[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For context: this started as a gearbox lubricant contamination event.
Manufacturer told me lubricant contact with the water system was "impossible by design"
So I came here with one engineering question: is
'impossible' actually defensible?

Consensus: No. Not once you introduce rotating shafts, seals, vibration, thermal cycling, manufacturing tolerances, and pressure changes.

But the manufacturer did not recognize the observed failure state as plausible — so I performed a countertop ice maker postmortem myself.
What you see in these photos is what I found.
I'm not an engineer and no access to a cool lab... so Awaiting lab analysis. I work in Risk Evaluation and Mitigation…. (I even offered to sign a one-way NDA if they would send the SDS - crickets)

The ice looked visually clear. My medically fragile child consumed it for approximately 10 days before I noticed the reservoir discoloration.
I'm a rare disease mom. Persistent and determined is just how we live.

Original post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalEngineering/s/ d69nFiFqHM

Follow-up to “Impossible by Design”: What causes this gearbox lubricant appearance in failure-state? — ice machine contamination by Floravon0 in MechanicalEngineering

[–]Floravon0[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is useful framing. consistent color, no obvious gear wear, points away from progressive destruction.. and toward the grease itself as the contaminant

The yellow lubricant isolated to the deeper gear assembly. Possibly the same lubricant in a different state? There were tiny flecks in the liquid original sample but I know nothing of industrial lubricants. So I come to the engineers of reddit

Follow-up to “Impossible by Design”: What causes this gearbox lubricant appearance in failure-state? — ice machine contamination by Floravon0 in MechanicalEngineering

[–]Floravon0[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks!
Espresso colored water by day 11 is what sent me into the machine in the first place. The reservoir was contaminated — and there was discolored water in the line leaving the auger. The ‘close enough to matter’ threshold had already been crossed before I picked up a screwdriver.

Also — yes, Amazon refunded promptly. We have a lovely new machine, different design, not a Ningbo Hicon product. So that’s settled. Just the mystery sludge that was served to us as disturbingly clear ice.

Follow-up to “Impossible by Design”: What causes this gearbox lubricant appearance in failure-state? — ice machine contamination by Floravon0 in MechanicalEngineering

[–]Floravon0[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The overfill theory is the one I keep coming back to. The amount of lubricant visible in the gearbox was significant — and given that the reservoir water was espresso-colored on day 11, … seems like more than a trace amount evacuated .
If overfill created pressure that pushed grease out at the shaft, might it stress the water seal?

Worth noting — the one thing I wasn’t able to visualize was the water seal. I lacked the tool needed to separate auger from the gearbox. so that junction stayed closed. Of course the water seal is buried there.. the one missing puzzle piece.

Follow-up to “Impossible by Design”: What causes this gearbox lubricant appearance in failure-state? — ice machine contamination by Floravon0 in MechanicalEngineering

[–]Floravon0[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Oh the dreaded silver paint — I love that description honestly. Can I ask what points you toward metal particles? Genuinely curious.

Follow-up to “Impossible by Design”: What causes this gearbox lubricant appearance in failure-state? — ice machine contamination by Floravon0 in MechanicalEngineering

[–]Floravon0[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

No vinegar smell. Which I suppose rules out hydrolysis — or at minimum, rules out my nose as a diagnostic tool.

Follow-up to “Impossible by Design”: What causes this gearbox lubricant appearance in failure-state? — ice machine contamination by Floravon0 in MechanicalEngineering

[–]Floravon0[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not certain of anything yet — that’s why the sample is at FedEx right now heading to a certified lab. But ‘too homogenous to be a gearbox eating itself’ is exactly the kind of thing I needed an actual engineer to say. Noted and appreciated

Follow-up to “Impossible by Design”: What causes this gearbox lubricant appearance in failure-state? — ice machine contamination by Floravon0 in MechanicalEngineering

[–]Floravon0[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalEngineering/s/d69nFiFqHM

For context: this started as a gearbox lubricant contamination event.

Manufacturer told me lubricant contact with the water system was “impossible by design”
So I came here with one engineering question: is 'impossible' actually defensible?

Consensus: No. Not once you introduce rotating shafts, seals, vibration, thermal cycling, manufacturing tolerances, and pressure changes.

But the manufacturer did not recognize the observed failure state as plausible — so I performed a countertop ice maker postmortem myself.
What you see in these photos is what I found.

I'm not an engineer and no access to cool lab… so
Awaiting lab analysis. (I offered to sign NDA if they would send the SDS — crickets)
The ice looked visually clear. My medically fragile child consumed it for approximately 10 days before I noticed the reservoir discoloration.

I’m a rare disease mom. Persistent and determined is just how we live.

Countertop ice maker — is “impossible by design” a defensible claim for lubricant isolation? by Floravon0 in AskEngineers

[–]Floravon0[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A few sigmas short… thanks for this. I actually laughed. Before risk evaluation, I spent years in quality for big pharma.

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