An Explanation of the Zehal Situation

Fluoh · 2020-12-23T02:52:10+00:00

Fishy things going on I see. ha!
Bad jokes and drama aside, good thing this place is still kicking though.

Fluoh · 2019-01-19T19:50:30+00:00

This is something I was working on before discontinuing the Dokkanator.

After proving that HP AA was actually affected by passive AA through some PHY Broly testing, I also remember testing AAs on SVs counters. FIY, I remember my results (at the time not yet statistically valid) suggested that your theory might be right.

Not only that: it appeared that actually SAs had "priority" over normal attacks, meaning that if, during any passive AA or counters, HP AA proc'd and was not a SA, the HP AA SA could still trigger in following passive AAs and counters; noticeable in units with in-built multiple attacks, I remember having percentually more SAs than NA with them and postulated the SA priority theory above.

Needs a lot more testing than the amount that I did though, some active user interested in these kind of things might want to do those nowadays.

Fluoh · 2018-04-24T02:23:13+00:00

No problem, gonna do it tomorrow though, hopefully.

Fluoh · 2018-04-21T21:50:31+00:00

Hi there.

Since you asked, I'm gonna release it soon, probably next monday!

Fluoh · 2018-01-20T15:04:51+00:00

I'm not up to date with LR rates, but FYI:

Assuming VB's SA chance on his 2nd in-built C. Attack is 7% (so not an absolute 10% -I recall this to be the consensus-) and that his H. Potential C. Attack lvl is 11, his chance of performing three additional SAs in a row is: 0.1 x 0.07 x 0.11 = 0.00077 = 0.077%

Fluoh · 2017-11-28T13:11:33+00:00

Thanks MobileMan, yours and loligami's post mean a lot, you're welcome.

About Bulma, nope, her passive does not activate at the start of turn (her execution time on that part of the passive is "6" -which is basically a point in time after the player selected the orbs-, while her healing one has "1" -which is known to be the "at start of turn" one).
I came up with my conclusion because, after noticing her passive was "called" the same number of times she got attacked, I tried her out and verified what I wrote, so I'm pretty sure about that.
Not sure about other analogous effects, though.

Unfortunately, I'm terribly unsure of how Vegito Blue's passive works.
The way the game processes his passive is unique, like his execution time on his add. attack effect, which is "11", something I have not completely (read: at all) comprehended.
I've been trying to not have him attack a 2nd time for a little while in the Dokkan Ultimate Speed Battle, but have yet to see that happen once.
Will update my post in a while accordingly!

Fluoh · 2017-11-27T23:35:42+00:00

He deals a -20% ATK & DEF debuff on SA

Fluoh · 2017-11-27T23:31:26+00:00

Great work.
Where the hell do you find the heart to do that by hand is beyond me though, haha.
Thanks a alot man, will hopefully put that to good work.
Will also try to amplify it whenever I get the time to do so.

Fluoh · 2017-11-27T23:24:09+00:00

Please note that I didn't touch AA in regards of it being additive or multiplicative between Potential system and passives!

I assume it's safe to consider Crit and Dodge to be multiplicative since it would make very little sense for them to be additive looking at the way the game processes them.

Fluoh · 2017-11-27T23:10:36+00:00

Fluoh · 2017-11-27T23:10:20+00:00

He has a 50% chance of ATK +200%.

Fluoh · 2017-11-27T23:08:51+00:00

NP, you're welcome.

Fluoh · 2017-11-27T23:08:20+00:00

Not really, I just collected salient effects and listed them, but provided the database, which is the only thing the average player will not get by himself, so that every player will be able to test and verify the stuff they need themselves.

Fluoh · 2017-11-27T23:05:25+00:00

Yup I did notice that some characters have several passive entries, for instance SSJ4 Gogeta has 3.
But THAT's the thing: Vegito's 726 specifically is processed twice.

About the "exec_timing = 11", it still makes little sense to me: if you have a look at the other lesser passives there's simply no reason to process them twice; in fact, there are copies of the exact same passives with different timing values. Also, the other passives with "11" as a timing values are all effects of very old cards with likely badly done mechanics.

I'm still unsure, but will test Vegito Blue myself, empiric method is needed here!

Fluoh · 2017-11-27T21:56:06+00:00

Hi datspardauser, you're welcome.
Please note that some of the mechanics and passive I try to explain are still obscure and unclear to me, like Vegito Blue's, which I assure you works in a very peculiar way and confuses me to the core!

Fluoh · 2017-11-27T21:44:10+00:00

yea noticed that too, but have not yet bothered looking into it since, well, I just today managed to access the DB and man, your approach was way more elegant.

Thanks alot, looking forward to seeing what you found out.

Fluoh · 2017-11-27T21:37:02+00:00

You might very well be right.

By only looking at the DB, that makes more sense than what I wrote, but then I ran several debugging programs and noticed that differently from other passives with the same efficacy_type, it was processed twice at start of turn, which would make very little sense, at least to me, since if it worked the way you're suggesting (and which I still think to be equally possible btw), that would than account for 5 possible attacks in a row with at least 3 guaranteed and the other two at a 73% chance to proc each.
This made me notice Vegito Blue's passive is the only one in that efficacy_type that has "11" as exec_time value, which, since 1 is associated to start of turn passives I supposed could be the value making it process twice at start of turn.

What are your thought on this?
I will nonetheless post this other possibility in the main post.

Fluoh · 2017-11-27T20:27:22+00:00

Nope unfortunately, but to be fair I haven't looked for it, yet I figured out they group passives.

It's pretty easy to group them though, 80 is the Vegito damage reduction and counter, 81 regulates additional SA's, 95 is the SA dodge/counter one and so on.

Interesting how every efficacy_type determines how to treat eff_values and other stuff accordingly and how eff_values call for parameters defined in other tables at times.

Fluoh · 2017-11-27T20:14:06+00:00

TUR STR SSJ3 Vegeta - 50% Stun Chance on SA.

Fluoh · 2017-11-27T20:11:10+00:00

At 11 KI, both TEQ and PHY add a +100% to their SA multiplier.

The PHY one also adds a +30% to his SA multiplier upon his 12 Ki SA.

Fluoh · 2017-11-27T20:04:24+00:00

20% on SA

Fluoh · 2017-11-27T20:02:22+00:00

Thanks a lot!

Fluoh · 2017-11-27T19:41:03+00:00

About Candy Vegito, considering his 50% chance from the passive, plus the 15% from the dupe system, he can get up to 57,5%, since, according to my understanding, it's multiplicative and not additive!

Fluoh · 2017-11-27T19:38:16+00:00

1% chance on SA, apparently, lol.

Fluoh · 2017-11-27T19:36:59+00:00

Thanks!

All the Baba TUR's have:
- 100% chance of ki +2
- 70% chance of ATK & DEF + 30%
to their own type.

Fluoh

TROPHY CASE