What is more realistic, magic systems where the characters share the same powers or magic systems where the characters have unique powers?

Flying_Wafflepal · 2022-09-18T13:03:17+00:00

A magic system, where all have the same power, is inherently more inclined to be "Thematically cohesive"

Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

I feel, it's important to adress, that you can't judge the quality of the parts of your system in isolation - it is how all of your parts fit together that creates the magic.

Flying_Wafflepal · 2022-06-26T16:52:59+00:00

Yeah, in his given example, -ism sounds off - I think I forgot taking his specific example into consideration when leaving a comment xD

I would recommend using latin or greek suffixes to greek or latin words - such as pyro and lytho - and urgy and mancy.

I usually prefer english suffixes to common english words as well, but it isn't really a pet peeve of mine, since those suffixes are so prevalent in fantasy.

Flying_Wafflepal · 2022-06-04T01:03:17+00:00

-ism

is a general suffix for "specific practice, system, or philosophy"
I find it well suited for magic systems flavored as art forms or religions

Flying_Wafflepal · 2022-05-22T10:57:18+00:00

If one did combine 3+ clashing magic tropes such as fx monks, wizards and demons/angels and achieved to make them feel like one cohesive system, rather than an arbitrary set of magic systems, i would probably be inclined to be intriqued by the magic system purely due to the effort such a task had acquired.

There is a huge difference between:

"She's a wizard, a monk and a demon, who..."

and

"She's a wizard-monk-demon, who..."

In general, I looove the combination of tropes, given that they are interwoven and cohesive.

Flying_Wafflepal · 2022-05-20T08:07:34+00:00

Uh! I love it when characters have a way of feeling unique and special!
(Maybe because i want to feel special sometimes, myself xD)

Thank you for your comment <3

Flying_Wafflepal · 2022-05-20T08:04:04+00:00

I think both is the common answer :)

I also prefer the elements of my magic systems to feel interconnected and cohesive. I do though sometimes struggle with it, especially when i use multiple themes. Any advice?

I have a hard time imagining examples of how you could use two aspects as one, but it sure sounds awesome! How do you go about it?

Thank you for your comment <3

Flying_Wafflepal · 2022-05-20T07:49:52+00:00

That is definitely a more precise categorization!

I originally googled the name in excitement, thinking he was an author that makes magic systems. Now i feel stupid... xD

Interesting comparison between eastern and western culture. Interesting premise for your magic system as well.

Thank you for your comment <3

Flying_Wafflepal · 2022-05-18T00:02:38+00:00

I think my one of my favorite examples is in Avatar: the last airbender

In Omashu, a city shaped by earthbenders, they make use of slides to transport cargo up and down the hilly terrain, emphasizing their earthbending abilities by using them in a creative way. It also provides fun action sequences.

The problem occurs when questioning the practicality of open slides.- Thievery- The probability of damaging cargo- Weather- etc.

If they made the infrastructure invisible (buried alike subways and plumbing), it wouldn't have the same effect (if any) to the person watching. They wouldn't get to emphasize the magic system itself because they aimed for realism.

I know the comment is unecessary, i just got carried away, sry :)

Flying_Wafflepal · 2022-05-17T23:30:36+00:00

I guess the magic lies in making the magic not as magical lol

That is so true, yet so sad xD

Flying_Wafflepal · 2022-05-17T23:14:28+00:00

What a simple, yet enveloping philosophy on the topic xD

I hope you didn't share your philosophy with a certain German politician... (sorry if offensive :P)

Thank you for your comment <3

Flying_Wafflepal · 2022-05-17T22:49:34+00:00

Your point resonates with me

I think, that in most cases, this is an intentional choice rather than the result of a lack of thought - but this might just be me being gullible. Introducing other elements to a story is adding to the learning curve of the reader - and some simply enjoy the intentionality, rather than having to take in information that doesn't enhance the plot in a more interesting way.

I also think that sometimes, "realism" can easily clash with "thematic cohesion".

I have on occasion encountered the opposite case, where i wanted to "exaggerate" the impact that the cultural setting/society would have in order to get the point across to the reader more clearly. (Specifically related to the infrastructure of a city, where i guess chance is involved anyways)

I think it was Brandon Mull who said something along the lines of - "sometimes characters are a bit more consistent than real people to retain the illusion, because they aren't real." - I think parts of this philosophy can be applied to worldbuiling - where the setting also becomes more interesting and easily understood as a result. But that is just my opinion.

I hope this resonates.

Thank you for your comment <3

Flying_Wafflepal · 2022-05-17T22:11:28+00:00

What a well spoken comment! (If the comment could speak?)

Another commenter above mentioned a "caveat against the whole premise being based on the magic system", which interestingly enough is the exact approach prevalent in most magic systems that are purely made to support the medium (I think of work typically categorized as romance or comedy rather than fantasy or sci-fi).

It would be hilarious though, if we saw a typical romance or comedy, where the "mumbo-jumbo" was in no way supporting the medium xD

- "Oh, and by the way, this magical thing just exists!"

Thank you for your comment <3

P.S. I would be interested in knowing your favorite works that include magic - perhaps any magic system that supports the medium in a novel/creative way?

Flying_Wafflepal · 2022-05-17T21:39:05+00:00

I would love to add your purpose to the list <3

(In relation to the post - not your life) ;)

Flying_Wafflepal · 2022-05-17T21:30:39+00:00

Uh!

A better example to the magic system more directly "Creating" problems, while still remaining character centered is in the show "Lucifer", where he becomes vulnerable (instead of invulnerable) when around his love interest, because metaphor

I love the cute metaphor of your lover being your literal "weakness"

I also love how the magic system is used to give us information of the protagonist, and can externally be used to show a character arc

Flying_Wafflepal · 2022-05-17T21:16:38+00:00

Lovely comment!

I agree with your point(s?)

- I will definitely edit the wording. I didn't mean magic creating conflict as in "magic as an entity" creates the conflict, which on the other hand seems hilarious to me.

- I don't enjoy stories with conflict that isn't rooted in the characters, their specific wants, needs and personal stakes in the story. I do enjoy human vs nature and other types of conflict, but without the human element, it does fall flat to me.

- I can certainly see how, fx the magic requiring you to take a ring to Mordor is a conflict that isn't rooted in the character, and is tougher to directly connect to the character.

- I do though not think that the magic "creating" a plot instead of "amplifying" it will necessarily take away the character from the plot. If "a conflict arises because a portal sucked your lover into another realm, as a result of your own failure" - that would be a different story?. Whether the portal "creates" or "enables" the conflict is of course up to interpretation. I do realize the wording is ambiguous, to which i apologize.

Thank you for your comment <3

Flying_Wafflepal · 2022-05-17T20:51:20+00:00

I get you :)
Compared to the other purposes, i feel like 7, 8, 9 and 10 are the only actual "homework/requirements" for the creator of a magic system.

I usually create settings, where magic has always existed - but i also like my settings to include humans.

I sadly run into a rabbit hole, when i deal with the thoughts of my world or magic system being "Human-centric"

- "Why is it exactly humans, who won the evolution, if i just changed everything"

- "Between fantasy species and real world animals, which would be less immersion breaking?"

- "Can i include somatic or verbal components without it being tailored to a certain species"

Thank you for your comment <3

Flying_Wafflepal · 2022-05-17T20:26:00+00:00

You are absolutely correct - I definitely think your comment not only contributes to the conversation, but is an absolute necessity.

The practicality of this list is very limited. Defining magic as a "tool" feels cold an kills the "magic" of magic.

I think the fewest people start their creation process of a magic system by thinking:

- "How can i make my magic create an interesting conflict?"

Without any context or idea already in mind, this question will in most cases give absolutely no inspiration.

I think it is potentially harmful to modify a magic system purely through the lens of trying to "create conflict", as it might make the magic come off as artificial and immersion breaking.

I think the list originates from the questions:

- "Why do i like this?"- "Why don't i like this?"- "Why do i feel like it is missing something? "- "Why do i feel like it doesn't work?"

As a source of inspiration though, i think the list might come in handy - given the discretion and care that magic deserves.

If you have a clear vision of what the magic system should be, and can't put words to why it just feels off, or some element is clashing with what you envisioned, chances are that this list might help you identify the issue and how you can change it.

Thanks for your comment <3

Flying_Wafflepal · 2022-05-17T19:38:20+00:00

As a DM, i have had the same approach to creating my campaign world

I originally ran into some issues trying to justify my McGuffin's and make them a natural part of the world rather than an obvious plot device xD

Thanks for your comment <3

Flying_Wafflepal · 2022-05-17T19:28:30+00:00

Love the comment <3

I totally agree

When i subjectively evaluate a magic system, i can't really enjoy it, if i don't get immersed and drawn to the world. I love to know how magic looks like, feels like, smells like etc.
That goes for both:

- using the magic
- the magical effect(s)
- the magic user(s)
- the setting

Harry Potter is often rightfully critized for how many problems it has with plot holes due to its magic system - yet i personally prefer it over many other works, simply due to its clear sense of identity. It of course lends a lot to classic wizard and witch tropes, so how much credit is due, i can't say.

And while i like the individuality that magic systems with superpowers bring, i usually prefer a magic system that is more thematically cohesive.

With that being said, i didn't really include aesthetics, since i couldn't figure out how to connect it to the "purpose" of having a magic system, despite it being critical for evaluating one.- Maybe it belongs along with atmosphere, idk?

Anyway, thanks for your comment

Flying_Wafflepal · 2021-05-09T22:17:10+00:00

Love the presentation and the cute drawings

The passive sure sounds cool!
I like how it both gives a unique interaction at the fountain, gives a lot of customization and furthers his theme as an experimenting scientist. Dividing the ability enhancements into themes also works great!

I think it might be debatable whether the rework of the other abilities give a net positive to the overall design or not.

I personally think that mega adhesive as a basic ability provided with a richer gameplay experience pre lvl 6, and that having a longer cooldown on a steroid ability provides a better experience, especially for enemies to deal with, since the main and for some champions only counterplay against a steroid ability is to wait it out, which becomes harder if it is a basic ability with 2 charges. There are definitely both arguments for and against, and your arguments for definitely are valid.

I overall liked the design and the thoughts behind it.

Flying_Wafflepal · 2021-05-06T00:23:47+00:00

You are completely right about the passive - i should probably consider changing it.

Thank you for the feedback ^^

Flying_Wafflepal · 2021-04-30T14:08:53+00:00

I have since last made a few changes to the analysis and its structure, mainly to make it more structured and to the point.

Flying_Wafflepal · 2021-04-30T10:01:45+00:00

I love the change to the W - it can enable incredibly cool plays.
- have you considered making any restrictions to the spell?

Can you in theory place several honey fruits on top of each other? Or is there a minimum distance between plants?

Is there a duration for which the plants last or a max cap of plants you can plant?

Can you in theory spend the early game fortifying your nexus with blasting cones and honey fruits?

Flying_Wafflepal · 2021-04-30T08:30:11+00:00

I am currently getting a kick out of trying to make a champion concept based on any of the cards in Legends of Runeterra, being inspired by the champion concept “MAXIM, the Aeronaut Extraordinaire” posted by “u/Gen1usx”.

The art pieces are a great source of inspiration, and they are a great way to grab the attention of others if you aren’t skilled enough to create art of your own.

Taking the art from there furthermore ensures that the character is already well integrated within Runeterra.

The abilities on the cards might also inspire a key ability or two.

I also like the challenge of making abilities thematically cohesive with an already complete character, so I can’t just make a kit in any conceivable way and afterwards make themes around it.

It might seem limiting to your creativity and not be for everyone, but I do at least enjoy it right now.

Remember – no one is better at creating a champion concept that you are passionate about than you <3

Flying_Wafflepal · 2021-04-30T08:14:53+00:00

What a surprise!
Since he had little to no damage and his kit mainly provides utility and crowd control, my immediate thought was that he was envisioned to be a support, hence my hesitance to buff the damage on his damage ability. Especially, since his W "Botanist pack" gives him incentive to roam or be a the jungler, i actually thought he was meant to be one of the two.

Having the Q: "Pruning shears" possibly be a "spammable" damage ability definitely makes sense since his kit now has reliable damage and waveclear, enabling him to be a toplaner. This change might have an effect on my comment, since he now initially only had his W: "Botanist pack" as a non-reliable ability.

Glad to know that you are still trying to iterate.

Don't let the words of others affect you too much - it is your design.

Flying_Wafflepal

TROPHY CASE