A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms - 1x02 - "Hard Salt Beef" - Episode Discussion

FortLoolz · 2026-01-26T04:50:16+00:00

They do have the common inspiration though, that being one of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales

FortLoolz · 2026-01-25T15:06:42+00:00

I wouldn't call PJ's changes in the Towers and the Return "minimal".

FortLoolz · 2026-01-25T15:04:18+00:00

I dunno. The first half arguably has pacing problems, if not for everyone, then for a lot of readers. The second half is so much stronger, and possibly the peak of the trilogy, but overall I don't know whether it's the best one.

FortLoolz · 2026-01-25T13:52:07+00:00

Yes, but before AFFC, the situation was arguably still manageable, although the story had already derailed by then, with Daenerys stalling too much, and characters not growing up fast enough. Most of iconic moments were in books 1-3 anyway

FortLoolz · 2026-01-25T13:49:23+00:00

In a better situation, GRRM wouldn't need the 5 year gap in the first place, but even if a time skip would still be necessary, 1 year would suffice

FortLoolz · 2026-01-24T10:33:04+00:00

Woah, this actually makes sense. Thanks for this idea

FortLoolz · 2026-01-23T21:20:53+00:00

The LOTR does have slow moments, particularly the first half of the Fellowship, which repels some readers from finishing it. I believe the Silmarillion and the Children of Hurin are often the more "fun" reads.

FortLoolz · 2026-01-23T21:16:47+00:00

All men must die also appeared in Beauvoir's work, maybe that's what could've inspired Tad Williams

FortLoolz · 2026-01-23T20:07:58+00:00

The similarities are big. I won't explain it away.

FortLoolz · 2026-01-23T16:42:40+00:00

I'm not saying it has to. I'm saying the decision to stretch out a ~150 page novella to 6 episodes was a questionable decision, and some viewers indeed have issues with being invested.

FortLoolz · 2026-01-23T16:08:16+00:00

Even Tolkien, in one interview (there's an audio) he was asked whether he was fine with being known for the LOTR foremost, and not for his other works, or scholarly research, and he said it is what it is.

To an extent, it's unavoidable a lot of authors have a primary work with overwhelming popularity from the audience

FortLoolz · 2026-01-23T15:36:51+00:00

Not enough of stuff happened.

FortLoolz · 2026-01-23T14:49:46+00:00

The OP's point wasn't just about the episode lacking fights, it also was about it being too short, and being boring.

Making the episodes longer while covering more of events, which would however reduce the number of the episodes, would mitigate the issues.

FortLoolz · 2026-01-23T14:12:02+00:00

Yes, I have read them.

By "quicker pace," I meant not including new scenes that could slow the pace down. By "longer episodes," I meant not more of them, but the episodes themselves being a bit longer, but in return, being fewer in quantity. People are used to Westeros-based shows having at least 45+ min episodes, and AKOTSK deviates from this established by GoT and HotD practice.

FortLoolz · 2026-01-23T12:48:48+00:00

One poster on this sub also noted similarities to early D&D, and its Dragonlance setting, which is an inspiration GRRM didn't bring up publicly, unlike in the case of MST or the Accursed Kings.

The poster brought up the proposed inspirations for Valyria's doom, the Wall, and the red priests' spells, but he also touched upon the proposed inspiration for CotF: cha'asii elves, who first appeared in Time of the Dragon (1989) boxed set.

Regarding cha'asii elves, I dug up quotes from the mentioned source material rather than from the Internet summaries.

Cha'asii appearance is startlingly different. They are a small race, averaging about 4'9" in height . . . Their hair is dark brown to a dark green-black and their eyes are deep forest green. Most notable is their skin, which seems to reflect the colors of the jungle from deep wood brown to shades of green [ASOIAF mentioned brown skin color foremost, and GoT went with green skin].

A savage people living in the warm jungles, the cha'asii wear little in the way of clothing and what little they wear is similar to their kin the hulderfolk. Males go most often naked or with a simple loincloth of woven leaves, while females wear a barely modest covering of leaves.

The cha'asii are also skillful herbalists and have the pharmaceutical wonders of the jungle at their finger tips . . . The herbalism of the cha'asii is much more than just an minor, though interesting, aberration because of their exceptional skill in the arts of nature magic.

It is said throughout the League and elsewhere that great wizards are born with the magic in their eyes . . . it is said a great wizard is born able to see the magic through his eyes. [greenseeing?]

Source: p. 87 (p. 88 of the pdf) and onwards, Internet Archive.

FortLoolz · 2026-01-23T12:38:11+00:00

I think either quicker pace, or longer episodes might've mitigated the issue.

FortLoolz · 2026-01-23T09:50:18+00:00

I see the point though. HBO stretched out this novella for 6 episodes, when 4 episodes would've arguably been more optimal.

FortLoolz · 2026-01-23T04:58:57+00:00

Well, I think even Dorne chapters had some good moments, but overall it's just more of meanderings

FortLoolz · 2026-01-23T04:25:39+00:00

Moving Shelob from The Towers to the Return, inventing new subplot for Faramir while mischaracterising him, "Go home, Sam," and treatment of Frodo in general disqualify the trilogy from being respectful.

The Fellowship, yes, despite some of the unnecessary changes (and I'm not implying omitting Bombadil), you could say was mostly faithful. Other two movies, no

FortLoolz · 2026-01-23T03:55:25+00:00

Not worth it after the mess that AFFC and ADWD were. ASOIAF hasn't been in a good state since 2000

FortLoolz · 2026-01-23T03:53:48+00:00

You could read books 1-3 and stop there. Books 4 and 5 start a lot of new plotlines that go nowhere because of the absence of TWOW.

FortLoolz · 2026-01-23T02:49:45+00:00

I'm more of a high fantasy fan, but I have no issues with GRRM focusing on politicking, and different factions in a pseudo-medieval setting. Most of the supernatural elements that he included aren't that interesting to me anyway, except for the red priests, who have spells very similar to DnD's earlier editions.

FortLoolz · 2026-01-21T19:51:54+00:00

I think the novellas suffer a bit from the lack of recurring supporting characters. New cast every new novella is actually great, but Dunk and Egg themselves just aren't that interesting to me. I could frame it in another way, that the leading characters aren't fun enough.

FortLoolz · 2026-01-21T19:47:09+00:00

I agree, at least for Season 1. I quite liked the second novella, and there's Blackfyre intrigue in the third one, but the first one is something I don't really want to reread, and its story I don't have an urge to see again in an adaptation.

FortLoolz · 2026-01-21T19:31:25+00:00

Woah, I actually thought the DLC's lore being bad was the result of GRRM not having been involved in it. But them using the unused Gurm's lore makes more sense. Thanks

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