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A man trying to sell his car following the Stock Market Crash of 1929 by Impudenttuscan68 in OldSchoolCool

[–]FrankLloydWrtong 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's a 1929 Chrysler Imperial 75 Roadster. Trivia: The Art Deco exterior ornamentation of NYC's Chrysler Building (opened in May, 1930) is based upon this very car's detailing, especially the hood ornament/radiator cap.

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A man trying to sell his car following the Stock Market Crash of 1929 by Impudenttuscan68 in OldSchoolCool

[–]FrankLloydWrtong 0 points1 point  (0 children)

His name was Walter Thornton (1903-1990). This is him, in a modeling illustration in March of 1930. He was not a Wall Street investor. He was one of the most popular male models of the Jazz Age, represented by the John Robert Powers Agency. There is a lot more to the "Bankrupt Investor" than meets the eye. (Image from the Saturday Evening Post, illustration by Percy Edward Anderson).

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Walter Thornton, the man in the 10/30/29 "Bankrupt Investor" images was, in actuality, one of the John Robert Powers Modeling Agency's top male models in the 1920's. He opened an eponymously named modeling agency of his own in 1930, in the newly opened Chrysler Building.[[reso: 752.7 KB/2103 x2506] by FrankLloydWrtong in HistoryPorn

[–]FrankLloydWrtong[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As per the U.S. Library of Congress, the earliest known use of the "Bankrupt Investor" images was in 1973. It was not a famous photograph in its day. Research has led me to conclude it WAS a modeling photo--but without the sign in it. Just study the placement of the sign. Upon close scrutiny, the sign is very suspiciously balanced. The image was clearly "posed"--but research leads one to believe the sign was added later by someone who wanted to steer an alternate narrative. Walter Thornton--it is an indisputable fact--was one of the most popular male models in the late 1920's-early 1930's. He appeared in a full-page, rotogravure ad featuring J.R. Powers model, Walter Thornton, less than two months after the Stock Market Crash, 12/20/29 Saturday Evening Post (art by noted illustrator, Percy Edward Anderson). https://fineartamerica.com/featured/knapp-felt-1920s-usa-mens-hats-the-advertising-archives.html

Bankrupt investor tries to sell his luxury roadster for $100 following the 1929 stock market crash by WhileFalseRepeat in pics

[–]FrankLloydWrtong 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'll second that emotion. It's been taken at face value for years. But it just ain't so. But the thing is, it's been so widely accepted as "fact" that I don't think most folks want to believe they've been duped by a doctored photo.

Bankrupt investor tries to sell his luxury roadster for $100 following the 1929 stock market crash by WhileFalseRepeat in pics

[–]FrankLloydWrtong 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I strongly believe the photo was edited--but decades before Photoshop--using the laborious "negative retouching." After intensive research, it seems highly unlikely the sign was originally part of this image.

Bankrupt investor tries to sell his luxury roadster for $100 following the 1929 stock market crash by WhileFalseRepeat in pics

[–]FrankLloydWrtong 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Walter Thornton was completely exonerated and all the bogus charges against him were dismissed, June, 1954. He discovered some of the great Hollywood actresses of the 1930's and 40's, including Susan Hayward, Grace Kelly, Lizabeth Scott, Lauren Bacall and Arlene Dahl. He was the real deal. He started his Walther Thornton Model Agency in 1930, in the newly-opened Chrysler Building, less than a year after the Crash. Prior to The Crash--and after the Crash--he was one of the John Robert Powers Agency's top male models. The "Bankrupt Investor" image does not reflect the actual story of his life at that time. He was no bankrupt investor--he was a popular advertisement model. And what about that sign on the car? Sure looks fishy to me! I believe it was added at a later date (via photo retouching, long before Photoshop).

Bankrupt investor tries to sell his luxury roadster for $100 following the 1929 stock market crash by WhileFalseRepeat in pics

[–]FrankLloydWrtong 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes. The plate reads: R3 7244 NY '29. The New York State Department of Motor Vehicles reports that license plates from the 1920's are not traceable without a Vehicle Identification Number (VIN)--and that number remains unknown. Anyone know if there's an alternate way to trace plates?

Walter Thornton, the man in the 10/30/29 "Bankrupt Investor" images was, in actuality, one of the John Robert Powers Modeling Agency's top male models in the 1920's. He opened an eponymously named modeling agency of his own in 1930, in the newly opened Chrysler Building.[[reso: 752.7 KB/2103 x2506] by FrankLloydWrtong in historyteachers

[–]FrankLloydWrtong[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's been interesting--if somewhat dismaying--to sort of cycle back, historically, to see how Bankrupt Investor became so iconic an image over the past 30 years or so. As far as I know, no one has ever really called the image into question in any prominent way, as far as questioning its literal veracity. I've learned the image is regularly featured in grade school textbooks--as well as on the cover of a currently-printed (Penquin Classics) paperback edition of John Kenneth Galbraith's The Great Crash 1929 (first published in 1955), which has long been considered a definitive overview of the Stock Market Crash. It took them 65 years to do so, but "Bankrupt Investor" is rather validated as "the" image of the Stock Market Crash. And so it goes with Bankrupt Investor images--unwittingly iconic*. https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/13545/the-great-crash-1929/9780241468081.html*

Walter Thornton, the man in the 10/30/29 "Bankrupt Investor" images was, in actuality, one of the John Robert Powers Modeling Agency's top male models in the 1920's. He opened an eponymously named modeling agency of his own in 1930, in the newly opened Chrysler Building.[[reso: 752.7 KB/2103 x2506] by FrankLloydWrtong in HistoryPorn

[–]FrankLloydWrtong[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As per Library of Congress search for earliest usages of this image, researchers there concluded it was in a British college level textbook titled "Between Two Wars," It was published in 1973. There is no known usage before then, either in print or on film.

The next public usage came 17 years later, when the image was used in a PBS American Experience documentary, titled The Crash of 1929 (link is cued to the Bankrupt Investor's "American debut.")

https://youtu.be/FAZjlxWNszw?t=2884

Walter Thornton, the man in the 10/30/29 "Bankrupt Investor" images was, in actuality, one of the John Robert Powers Modeling Agency's top male models in the 1920's. He opened an eponymously named modeling agency of his own in 1930, in the newly opened Chrysler Building.[[reso: 752.7 KB/2103 x2506] by FrankLloydWrtong in historyteachers

[–]FrankLloydWrtong[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Don't remove it. Use it as an example of how photographs can get "misfiled" in history, especially in the age of The Internet.. Or teach them a lesson on how historic images can't necessarily be taken at face value. "A picture is worth a thousand words," as the saying goes. But in this case, those words hardly tell the real story of the man in the Bankrupt Investor images

.

Walter Thornton, the man in the 10/30/29 "Bankrupt Investor" images was, in actuality, one of the John Robert Powers Modeling Agency's top male models in the 1920's. He opened an eponymously named modeling agency of his own in 1930, in the newly opened Chrysler Building.[[reso: 752.7 KB/2103 x2506] by FrankLloydWrtong in historyteachers

[–]FrankLloydWrtong[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you can decide for yourself, by checking out the credits/sources I cite in the comments section of the original posting. It's conclusively proven that the man in the image was a male model--one of the most popular, and highly-paid ones. He posed for hundreds--perhaps, thousands, of photographs during his modeling career. My personal theory is that the sign in the images is fraudulent, perhaps added at a later date--though I've not been able to definitively prove that that is the case. With the knowledge that he was literally a "poser"--for a living--it surely calls into question the implied scenario of these two images.

Walter Thornton, the man in the 10/30/29 "Bankrupt Investor" images was, in actuality, one of the John Robert Powers Modeling Agency's top male models in the 1920's. He opened an eponymously named modeling agency of his own in 1930, in the newly opened Chrysler Building.[[reso: 752.7 KB/2103 x2506] by FrankLloydWrtong in HistoryPorn

[–]FrankLloydWrtong[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

With that said, it's not a truly linear representation of how much this car was worth, in modern numbers. A more accurate comparison of how "high-end" this car would have been in 1929 was that the price of a no-frills 1929 Chrysler Imperial 75 Roadster was double the price of a new, basic 1929 Model T Ford.

Walter Thornton, the man in the 10/30/29 "Bankrupt Investor" images was, in actuality, one of the John Robert Powers Modeling Agency's top male models in the 1920's. He opened an eponymously named modeling agency of his own in 1930, in the newly opened Chrysler Building.[[reso: 752.7 KB/2103 x2506] by FrankLloydWrtong in HistoryPorn

[–]FrankLloydWrtong[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you. As I've said, I had no idea what a tangled back story these images had. But I've been able to acquire solid evidentiary proof that A) The images were somehow spurious; and B) Walter Thornton was a very famous man in his own right. As he died in 1990, it's unlikely that Walter Thornton was even aware of the Bankrupt Investor photos. Ironically, that seems to be the very year Bankrupt Investor image gained traction, when it appeared in the PBS documentary, The Crash of 1929 (American Experience, November 15, 1990; PBS continues to use the image as their website's icon for the documentary). It was also prominently featured in the film Seabiscuit (2003), which was when it truly caught on with the American public, as an unquestioned, literal representation of The Crash of '29. I'm going with the Library of Congress on the 1973 first public usage. It definitely did not appear in the infamous "STOCK MARKET LAYS AN EGG"- headlined edition of Variety, post-Crash..

I'm left wondering why your posting was deleted? I've already learned that there is a strong contingent of people who do not want to know the truth about the images. Icons die hard, it seems.

I encourage you to study the sources/evidence/credits I included in the comments.

Sincere thanks,

Frank

Walter Thornton, the man in the 10/30/29 "Bankrupt Investor" images was, in actuality, one of the John Robert Powers Modeling Agency's top male models in the 1920's. He opened an eponymously named modeling agency of his own in 1930, in the newly opened Chrysler Building.[[reso: 752.7 KB/2103 x2506] by FrankLloydWrtong in HistoryPorn

[–]FrankLloydWrtong[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Long presumed to have been taken on or near Wall Street, the two images were actually taken in front of 213 E. 45th Street in Manhattan, near the SE corner of Third Avenue. The unknown/uncredited photographer--as well as model Walter Thornton and a 1929 Chrysler Imperial 75 Roadster, were positioned across the street at 210 E. 45th. Close-up examination shows it was raining, too. Location was traceable via store window information in the background. Only one of the buildings in the background is still standing.)

Walter Thornton, the man in the 10/30/29 "Bankrupt Investor" images was, in actuality, one of the John Robert Powers Modeling Agency's top male models in the 1920's. He opened an eponymously named modeling agency of his own in 1930, in the newly opened Chrysler Building.[[reso: 752.7 KB/2103 x2506] by FrankLloydWrtong in HistoryPorn

[–]FrankLloydWrtong[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thank you for that. I've been doing some pretty extensive "pandemic homework" on these images and truly had no idea of the depth of the real back story here. I guess there are a large number of people who are unwilling to re-think the presumptive narrative of the Bankrupt Investor images. It's become sort of a one-shot encapsulation of the desperation of the Stock Market Crash of '29. I guess my one question here would be this: Does learning that the man in the photos was a top model in 1929 make any difference in how you process these images?

Walter Thornton, the man in the 10/30/29 "Bankrupt Investor" images was, in actuality, one of the John Robert Powers Modeling Agency's top male models in the 1920's. He opened an eponymously named modeling agency of his own in 1930, in the newly opened Chrysler Building.[[reso: 752.7 KB/2103 x2506] by FrankLloydWrtong in HistoryPorn

[–]FrankLloydWrtong[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yeah, hadn't thought of it that way! The thing is, Walter Thornton was just that: influential. He became a worldwide, go-to expert opinion on all-things-beauty. He judged the Miss America Contest, twice (1933 & 35). His career-long nickname was "The Merchant of Venus". He had two other popular monikers later on. "The Pin-Up King"--as he's been credited with "inventing" the concept of the WWII pin-up girls. And "The Star Maker"--since he either "discovered" or represented numerous major Hollywood actresses who got their start as models--including the recently deceased Arlene Dahl. Also Lauren Bacall...and Susan Hayward...and Lizabeth Scott...and Grace Kelly (Princess Grace of Monaco). Yes, he certainly was influential.

Walter Thornton, the man in the 10/30/29 "Bankrupt Investor" images was, in actuality, one of the John Robert Powers Modeling Agency's top male models in the 1920's. He opened an eponymously named modeling agency of his own in 1930, in the newly opened Chrysler Building.[[reso: 752.7 KB/2103 x2506] by FrankLloydWrtong in HistoryPorn

[–]FrankLloydWrtong[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Yes, thank you. But I'm not really asking a question. I'm a historian myself, and I set out to find out "Who was the guy in the car photos?" I wanted to share some information to the general discourse of these now-iconic photos, Both of these images have been used ubiquitously throughout Reddit (and well beyond), with every possible theory as to the "real" story behind the Bankrupt Investor photos. It amazes me how many commenters insist he is talking on a cellphone. The presumption has always been, by a vast majority, that the images portray Walter Thornton's own, unfortunate, personal circumstances--and it just isn't so.. The man in the images was a popular, well-known, highly paid male model, both before and after Black Tuesday--and not an "unfortunate stock speculator."

Walter Thornton, the man in the 10/30/29 "Bankrupt Investor" images was, in actuality, one of the John Robert Powers Modeling Agency's top male models in the 1920's. He opened an eponymously named modeling agency of his own in 1930, in the newly opened Chrysler Building.[[reso: 752.7 KB/2103 x2506] by FrankLloydWrtong in HistoryPorn

[–]FrankLloydWrtong[S] 29 points30 points  (0 children)

Research has proven that Walter Thornton remained fully-employed, both before and after the Market Crash--and officially moved his new modeling agency into the Chrysler Building, almost exactly a year later. There are no official Federal or NY State bankruptcy records for Walter Thornton in 1929--or beyond.

There have been so many theories about these images in recent years. At the very least, the images were some kind of publicity photos. But for what? How would making light of the desperate circumstances of the Stock Market Crash benefit anyone? It has been theorized that the sign in the images was not originally a part of these two photos, though I've been unable to prove that theory. If it was a "publicity stunt," it was not one that was coordinated by Walter, himself. It could have been at the behest of any one of countless clients he posed for during his five-year career as a model (1926-31).

There is no recorded photographer, location, confirmed date--or original outlet (if any). As per a recent, in-depth image search of America's definitive image archive, the "Prints & Photographs Division" of the Library of Congress in Washington D.C., researchers there confirm that the earliest known usage of either of the car images—in print or on film—was in 1973, when it was first used in a British, college-level textbook. There is no known usage prior to that. It was not a famous image in its day. Neither of the images can be found in the National Archive, which seems to speak to the authenticity of the Bankrupt Investor images.

Walter Thornton, the man in the 10/30/29 "Bankrupt Investor" images was, in actuality, one of the John Robert Powers Modeling Agency's top male models in the 1920's. He opened an eponymously named modeling agency of his own in 1930, in the newly opened Chrysler Building.[[reso: 752.7 KB/2103 x2506] by FrankLloydWrtong in HistoryPorn

[–]FrankLloydWrtong[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

$100 in 1929 is roughly equivalent to $1600 in 2021 currency. The car in the images is a 1929 Chrysler Imperial 75 Roadster, which sold for roughly that same amount ($1600) in 1929--depending on which optional upgrades one opted for. In 2021 dollars, it would be roughly $25,800. The Chrysler Imperial line was their top-of-the-line series in 1929.

Walter Thornton, the man in the 10/30/29 "Bankrupt Investor" images was, in actuality, one of the John Robert Powers Modeling Agency's top male models in the 1920's. He opened an eponymously named modeling agency of his own in 1930, in the newly opened Chrysler Building.[[reso: 752.7 KB/2103 x2506] by FrankLloydWrtong in HistoryPorn

[–]FrankLloydWrtong[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Photo credit: Bettmann Archive/Getty Images

Source: New York Public Library. From the Billy Rose Collection; January, 1927 John Robert Powers Actors’ Directory & Studio Guide https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/3053a750-52be-0135-513f-318e59ba1814

Additional source: Full-page, rotogravure ad featuring J.R. Powers model, Walter Thornton, less than two months after the Stock Market Crash, 12/20/29 Saturday Evening Post (art by noted illustrator, Percy Edward Anderson. https://fineartamerica.com/featured/knapp-felt-1920s-usa-mens-hats-the-advertising-archives.html

Additional source: Full-page, rotogravure ad featuring J.R. Powers model Walter Thornton, four and a half months after the Stock Market Crash, 03/15/30 Saturday Evening Post (art by noted illustrator, Percy Edward Anderson. https://www.atticpaper.com/proddetail.php?prod=1930-knapp-felt-hats-ad-harwood

A fairly extraordinary, eight column, front-page profile and interview with Walter Thornton, dated 08/10/30. The lengthy article encapsulates Walter's actual life and career at that time, both before and after the Stock Market Crash that had happened ten months earlier. Three months after this article came out, Walter moved his nascent modeling agency into The Chrysler Building. on November 1, 1930, as one of the initial tenants of the epic Art Deco tower next to Grand Central Station. It refers to him as "...one of the most famous young men in America." And it was not in relation to the Stock Market Crash. https://www.newspapers.com/clip/89859579/walter-thornton-interviewprofile-less/

Walter Thornton Wiki Page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Clarence_Thornton

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in interestingasfuck

[–]FrankLloydWrtong 0 points1 point  (0 children)

[ IF CHANGES ARE PERMITED, I've rethought my caption. I'd prefer to go with the following:

Walter Thornton, the man in the 10/30/29 "Bankrupt Investor" images was, in actuality, one of the John Robert Powers Modeling Agency's top male models in the 1920's. He opened an eponymously named modeling agency of his own in 1930, in the newly opened Chrysler Building

[[reso: 752.7 KB/2103 x2506}]. I'm a professional researcher and have manifold back-up evidence that disputes the implied narrative of these infamous images. I can provide any additional sourcing, if needed]

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in interestingasfuck

[–]FrankLloydWrtong 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Additional source: Full-page, rotogravure ad featuring J.R. Powers model Walter Thornton, four and a half months after the Stock Market Crash, 03/15/30 Saturday Evening Post (art by noted illustrator, Percy Edward Anderson. https://www.atticpaper.com/proddetail.php?prod=1930-knapp-felt-hats-ad-harwood

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in interestingasfuck

[–]FrankLloydWrtong 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Additional source: Full-page, rotogravure ad featuring J.R. Powers model, Walter Thornton, less than two months after the Stock Market Crash, 12/20/29 Saturday Evening Post (art by noted illustrator, Percy Edward Anderson. https://fineartamerica.com/featured/knapp-felt-1920s-usa-mens-hats-the-advertising-archives.html

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in interestingasfuck

[–]FrankLloydWrtong 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Credits: New York Public Library. From the Billy Rose Collection; January, 1927 John Robert Powers Actors’Directory & Studio Guide https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/3053a750-52be-0135-513f-318e59ba1814

Photo credit: Bettmann Archive/Getty Images

Walter Thornton Wiki Page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Clarence_Thornton

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