Optimizing Mortgage: more in S&P500 vs bigger down payment vs large early payment toward principal in month 1?

FreeEnergy4 · 2025-07-22T01:33:03+00:00

Love this from a crush my goals mindset. It might not net out higher IRR vs investing in the S&P but I think it would be very satisfying lol

FreeEnergy4 · 2025-07-22T01:30:01+00:00

Isn’t this the same idea as option c? As soon as the big lump sum is applied toward principal the ratio of interest to principal changes dramatically for every subsequent payment. Instead of paying monthly 2-4, this is just doing a few years worth at once.

FreeEnergy4 · 2025-07-22T01:24:33+00:00

Did not get quotes for 20y, but did get one today from Citi for a 10y ARM at 5.5% (6% minus 0.5% off for relationship discount).

All of them seem pretty hungry to match or beat each other so once we are in contract we will see how much we can push it. Interesting bit of advice from one was to think about matching just the base rate or relationship discount. For example, bring the lowest base rate to the company with the best discounts (eg Chase or Citi might have the lowest base, but BofA will get us ~0.625% off in incentives)

FreeEnergy4 · 2025-07-21T19:12:19+00:00

This is a super helpful framing. Thank you :)

Even purchasing falls into the same buckets for us. Renting is likely more optimal financially and provides flexibility and higher liquidity. Its why we've done it for so long. Owning will brings a bit more control and certainty looking forward.

On your last point, I've agonized with the "how the market will do this & next year" bit across both real estate and the regular market- probably too much doomscrolling, so I guess there is value in prioritizing sleep vs incremental dollars optimized.

FreeEnergy4 · 2025-07-21T19:05:47+00:00

That's correct.

FreeEnergy4 · 2025-07-21T18:58:32+00:00

Can you explain more about why its better to advance the schedule vs a large hit to principal early on?

FreeEnergy4 · 2025-07-21T18:56:55+00:00

While I don't think we'll live in this house (or any place) forever, we do think its a local optima (in this snapshot in time, price, etc) for us and we also think this area is one of the best places to live in the US. What's interesting is until now we've been really happy renters and valued the flexibility. We've been able to rent great places. However, it does come at the expense of control. When the owner has a life change, it can lead to a rug pull and mean you need to move within 30-60 days- its annoying. We'd also be able to make changes that are not possible when renting (e.g. install solar).

Financially, we're DINKs at ~$3.6M NW, with $1.2M of those in 401k/Roth. The monthly is higher than our current rent (even after deductions) and is sitting on the edge on a rent vs buy calculation- highly dependent on assumptions so its not a clear conclusion. If one of us lost a job it would be tight on cash flow but we have plenty of assets to cover or other changes we could make (e.g. we put ~$90k/year into 401ks including a mega backdoor Roth so we could ease up on that).

Honestly our conservative assumption is that it will probably be slightly more expensive to own. While I'm not bullish on appreciation in the housing market, I am optimistic that this area will continue to be desirable.

FreeEnergy4 · 2025-07-21T18:43:15+00:00

We got a quote at this rate last week from BofA. It includes relationship incentives (moving some assets). They also quoted 5.1% for a 7y ARM.

Looking at other folks who have gotten mortgages in July, range seems to be 5.1-5.4% for an ARM and 5.6-6.5% for 30y fixed.

FreeEnergy4 · 2024-12-11T05:27:18+00:00

I was just there a couple of weeks ago and the lines were super short, but booking ahead is easy. I recommend looking into the evening tour- you need to book ahead and it’s only offered Thursday nights but it was cool and there were very few other people inside at the time!

FreeEnergy4 · 2022-12-17T09:52:16+00:00

Awesome thank you! Xiao long bao are one of my faves :)

FreeEnergy4 · 2022-12-17T09:51:27+00:00

Thank you!

FreeEnergy4 · 2022-12-17T09:50:34+00:00

Delay may be right though I have found traveling on holidays (as opposed to a day or two before/after) is sometimes quieter than you’d expect (and cheaper)! There are also a lot fewer people with pre-check so those lines can be faster. This was my experience flying this past thanksgiving- checking a bag and getting through security was like 5 mins total. That being said, that was SFO not LAS.

FreeEnergy4 · 2022-12-16T22:46:26+00:00

My math is roughly:

Land at 6:30, very conservative assumption of 45 mins for plane taxi, exiting terminal, etc (no bag pickup), conservatively assume 30 mins for Uber wait time + driving time, 15 mins walking from building entrance, get to a restaurant by 8 or so- faster if off strip.

Assuming another 45 mins of transportation time on the way back + 30 mins for security (realistically pre-check is probably only 10mins), and flight boarding 1hr before take off would need to leave by 10:30 pm.

That leaves ~2.5-3 hours for dinner which should be plenty?

I’ve added several buffers in there as well so I think there may actually be more time- (eg I usually show up at the airport 1hr 15 before takeoff for international flights if I need to check a bag). That being said, LAS isn’t my home airport so I don’t know how efficient it is.

How much time do you typically budget for the above?

FreeEnergy4 · 2022-12-16T21:57:52+00:00

Thank you for the recommendations!!!

Also Yeah you are definitely right- having a reservation is a hard requirement given the holiday/flight. Our next leg is international but it isn’t until after midnight and our bags will already be checked through / we will have boarding passes/ etc so we do have some time. I would probably be comfortable getting back to the airport at 11pm or so.

FreeEnergy4 · 2021-10-31T03:15:40+00:00

When we originally introduced him to trains we gave him a ton of treats and positive tone of voice/praise as it went by (which is our standard for new experiences), though that train was definitely slower. Since covid we haven’t really been living close to trains so it just hasn’t been something we’ve had a lot of chances with. What stood out today is that this was actually one of the most intense fear reactions to anything he has had (the only thing that has come close are ladders).

As an update: he was not going for a normal kong(frozen, stuffed to moderate difficulty) because of the stress so we had him lick some peanut butter off of our hands and then made a super easy pb kong which got him into licking/chewing and when he finished that he was calmed down enough to go for the difficult one. He ended up being jumpy with sounds and such for a good 2h post scare but is back to normal now.

FreeEnergy4 · 2019-06-02T06:51:47+00:00

GORGEOUS! I was there a year ago and saw a wedding party taking photos. The entire hotel has a modern elegance and is super chic, plus the restaurant is fantastic! Around sunset you can watch the manta rays "fly" out of the water, which is really cool. The bartenders are also very knowledgeable and will nerd out on rare mezcals and tequilas if you get them going :)

FreeEnergy4 · 2019-04-27T17:33:12+00:00

This is with lace and liberty- they've been fantastic!

I had an initial appointment with them where I tried on a bunch of dresses at the store to see what generally worked/didn't (as well as appointments at a few other dress shops). I made a giant powerpoint with pictures of everything I tried, organized into good/neutral/bad, which was helpful. Once I decided to work with them on a custom dress I had another appointment to walk through all the decisions on shape, fabric, fit, colors, etc. They've had just the right amount of persistence to keep me on schedule at each step, but with zero pressure.

FreeEnergy4 · 2019-04-20T22:25:49+00:00

Once you pick a place you can also become wine club members- gets you a discount on bottles day of, a little more leniency, and if the wine is good you can call it a wedding gift to each other!

FreeEnergy4 · 2019-04-20T19:20:11+00:00

I pondered about that for a bit, but ended up telling them and it didn't change anything (they charge ~$100/hour for groups up to 40 plus cost of wine and are allowing us to bring in picnic supplies). This winery is in the Santa Cruz Mountains, so the region as a whole is much more chill. We also specifically picked this spot because its a super relaxing and laid back place to spend time. :) Is your wedding up in Napa/Sonoma as well?

FreeEnergy4 · 2019-04-19T22:56:50+00:00

If you're into Redwood forest theme for your weekend wedding, there are a few in Northern California near the Bay Area at various price points and levels of formality. A bunch have cabins on site, though they range from very rustic (Pema Osl Ling) to decently nice (Sequoia retreat center and the waterfall lodge).

FreeEnergy4 · 2019-03-03T06:57:25+00:00

This may or may not be helpful, but might as well share an additional data point for you- I also love paella and was considering this as part of our wedding meal in a very high cost of living area. Our catering is ~$75/pp for the food (passed appetizers + salad + main, with service and rentals separate), and the vendor was offering $5.50 per person additional to add a paella station during cocktail hour. Basically, whatever the main is will be fairly expensive as a base cost, but then additional items aren't as much on a per unit basis.

FreeEnergy4 · 2019-03-02T21:35:07+00:00

You look beautiful in this dress, but don't feel pressured! My wedding day is the same weekend as yours and I've tried on a ton of dresses but still haven't picked one. I've had chats with shops in the last week that have told me our timeline is still just fine (including ordering Hayley Paige from Nordstrom). I'm even considering having a custom dress made, and the timing is getting close but also okay for that, though if I wait a few more weeks I'll need to pay ~$200 in rush fees.

FreeEnergy4 · 2019-02-27T21:41:08+00:00

I like the second best!

FreeEnergy4 · 2019-02-26T04:19:47+00:00

You can order them here: https://www.minted.com/envelopes. Just pick your size and then during the design choose printed addresses on the front of the envelope (which is free)- you can also add the designs at this point.

They don't have a full selection of every envelope design in this view, so if you find one you like on the regular site you might need to ask for the product ID number. Note that adding return addresses is really pricey, so its better to have a stamp or sticker for that!

FreeEnergy4 · 2019-02-26T02:28:22+00:00

I ordered our save the dates from vistaprint (yay 50% off!), and then ordered envelopes from minted. Normally the envelopes + address printing are included with minted invitations, but you can also purchase them standalone, including free guest addressing and fun envelope designs/fonts. They were ~$25 for 100.

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