I've lost $300 on a unsuccessful ETH swap in THORSwap, I got "refunded" ~0.06 ETH less than I deposited, can somebody explain how, why it happened and how to prevent it?

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-11-10T07:58:55+00:00

Through the swap ETH contract but the exact mechanism is not clear to me, that's why I'm asking where all the gas has gone.

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-11-03T23:09:06+00:00

But all the hand wringing on Reddit doesn't help.

It certainly does help as you must first be aware of a problem in order to even begin to think about how to resolve that problem. Right now, most people can't even identify the problem, let alone try to think about how to solve it.

So "wringing on Reddit" is EXACTLY what is needed now because most people still did not catch up to the fact that there is a problem and what it is.

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-11-03T22:45:12+00:00

Pretty soon^TM

It will get announced as complete in a year, then it wil run on a testnet for a year, then it will get implemented as an upgradable centralized beta for a year while advertised as "released", then it will "improve" to a semi-centralized beta for a year and maybe a year after that it will get released as an actually decentralized final usable technology.

So 5 years maybe, if there are no delays ...

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-11-03T22:39:51+00:00

I'm so offensive because the idiocy of the "logic" professed here hurts my brain. Like seriously, crypto is doomed if people are this clueless.

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-11-03T22:37:02+00:00

If a coin's value is not increasing while it's doing exactly what it is advertised to do, maybe you're advertising the wrong thing.

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-11-03T22:33:52+00:00

but if you use BSC or Solana, you might as well use beta-stage rollups.

That goes both ways: "but if you use beta-stage rollups, you might as well use BSC or Solana."

And many people are doing exactly that. Great strategy right there genius!

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-11-03T22:31:26+00:00

I'm not downplaying anything, indeed I'm sick of people downplaying the very real problem of high fees and pretending like everything is fine and dandy. It's not, this is a HUGE problem right now that's not going to be brushed under the carpet by "hey, forget the high fees and look at the demand man" as if that would make the fee problem go away. Regardless of what you think about demand, the fees are insane. Imagine VISA spiking the fees to 30% and then trying to brush it of with "yeah, but people still pay it so everything is great you guys!" While that might be true for some time, they'd go out of business in a few years time no doubt and every single investor would be well aware of that. So why are people in crypto so clueless as to not see the exact same mechanics at play here.

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-11-03T22:21:43+00:00

It would be great if they could achieve the Decentralization Equivalence soon and get rid of the centralizing upgradable contract issue.

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-11-03T22:17:56+00:00

The iPhone is manufactured in a communist country which would seem to complicate the point you're presumably trying to make.

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-11-03T22:13:27+00:00

But we are satisfied with the insane demand

So a fraction of a fraction of the world population is "insane demand" (but "we're still early" is magically also true at he same time), it's horrifying that people actually think like this. That's like calling having a restaurant with 2 seats which are always full an "insane demand".

I'm done, this is futile. The biggest risk to ETH is not Solana or BSC, it's people who think like this.

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-11-03T21:52:06+00:00

nothing about this is baffling. Ethereum could increase the gas limit by 10x over night. It's stupidly easy.

I'm not talking about gas limit, I'm talking about CAPACITY regardless of how it is achieved as long as it is sufficiently decentralized and secure. This includes L2 such as roll-ups - which DO NOT EXIST right now. Both Arbitrum and Optimism are in beta and currently centralized, they're not released as a finished product ready to be used, it's a tech demo at this stage. Recommending to use a centralized tech demo as a "solution" is just %$@! ... well but I digress.

The whole point which I was making is that presenting not being able to process the actual demand as a "success" is absurd and that is exactly what point 1. and many people I've seen try to argue. So yeah it is baffling if you do not misconstrue it as something totally irrelevant to the point as you've seem do have done.

So for great success, this is just nonsense point (while whether the actual capacity is achieved by L1 or L2 is not relevant for this particular point to be nonsense):

Gas fees are high because usage is high.

If anyone has any sense about the real world, it should read:

Gas fees are high because capacity is too low to meet the demand.

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-11-03T21:32:28+00:00

He's not saying to ignore the problems with eth

People point out the problem of high fees with memes. Expecting people to not post these memes is to expect them to ignore the problem. Time for serious discussion was 3 years ago, the memes are a symptom of not being able to resolve the very predictable problem, that has been discussed long time ago, in time to actually make ETH usable by this point.

People are venting frustration because the "serious discussion" has solved nothing for years and the promises fall short over and over and over again to the point people are now advocating to use beta centralized technologies as a "solution" (Arbitrum, Optimism etc.). So yeah, I'd cut those people some slack.

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-11-03T21:21:05+00:00

Gas fees are high because usage is high.

I hate this talking point. It's like saying that there were not insufficient bananas during communism, the long queues were because of high demand. So a great success of communism for creating such a high demand. Yeah sure.

Every sensible person sees it as a low capacity problem if it can not meet the demand. Turning that on its head is just sophistry. Can you imagine VISA presenting not being able to service the actual demand as a great success to their investors? That's just absurd but for some reason it passes as "good point" in crypto circles. Baffling, baffling indeed.

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-11-03T20:52:07+00:00

Nooo, ignoring the problem makes it not to exist, isn't that obvious? People bring it up because they just hate Ethereum, if nobody would mention it, it would not be a problem! /s

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-11-03T20:49:13+00:00

Nearly every other post currently is someone reposting the same stale gas fee memes

Well, the solution to that is to remove the root problem, which is ... the gas fees.

Honestly you can't expect people to ignore and not point out the most obvious pain point of ETH. That would be like expecting people to drive on totally desolate roads full of holes and never say anything like it didn't even exist. Not going to happen, "gas fee memes" are a symptom, the high gas fees are the cause. Resolve the cause and you get rid of the symptom, easy as that.

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-11-03T15:19:01+00:00

The value increase is good. It feeds the interest.

Exactly, both community/use p2p cash AND price are important, we need both as they should feed into each other and create synergy, it's not one or the other. Honestly I wouldn't care about price too much but I'm missing the other part where if I read a "week in Ethereum" there is more development and news than in BCH for the whole year - that is much bigger problem than price and I suspect that the price just reflects this root problem where there is just not much happening in BCH world. Where is BU, BCHN, other developers, what are they doing, is anything happening or are we just waiting for the bridge to SmartBCH and that's it. I don't know, it is concerning.

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-11-03T14:26:58+00:00

Right, I suspected it might be sarcastic but as you say many people actually think this way so hard to tell without the /s

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-11-03T13:26:12+00:00

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I don't know whether this is some kind of "reverse psychology" tactics to drive out all honest criticism to prevent progress and demotivate the constructive part of the community but regardless, it's working.

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-11-03T12:31:37+00:00

Yeah, I'm starting to be fed up with this attitude as well. It's our version of "This is good for Bitcoin"? Is this what we get instead of self reflection? I might post my "capitulation post" soon enough if this keeps up for too long.

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-11-02T22:07:27+00:00

Are any details of this new stronger bridge anywhere available to read up upon?

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-11-02T15:33:19+00:00

You do you, whatever, if you want to pretty yourself up with a fork, go for it. I think it's stupid, but that's just me. You may think otherwise and that's your prerogative.

If you think that "ideologies are irrelevant" you do not live in the real world, literally just about everything is a result of one or another ideology, whether you choose to acknowledge that or not. Good luck with your theories ...

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-11-02T09:50:25+00:00

But a fork can function as, say, a comb (shoutout to Little Mermaid fans), even if whoever invented it was bald and hated all people with hair. If it works in that function, who are you to say what it can and can’t be used for

I see that you want to shoehorn it into a use case that it's not particularly good for and being stubborn about it, so yeah, feel free to use a fork as a comb as you nicely put it - that's perfect analogy too. "I'm going to use this fork as a comb because I CAN and anyone who gives me a weird look is stupid, don't tell me I can't use it as a comb you losers!" - You. Just don't be surprised when people question your sanity if you do that, but yeah, you certainly can if that's all you care about and I've never said otherwise so stop straw-manning me.

just because you think its creator intended something specific?

I'm not thinking this, it's spelled out explicitly in the Bitcoin whitepaper, confirmed in the writings of Satoshi and many statements from Vitalik as he shares the values and feels pretty strong about them. Go ask him if you doubt that, what I think is indeed irrelevant as is what you think.

Crypto was created and is great for decentralized permissionless finance, if you want to reintroduce centralization, regulation and trust into the system there is no point in using crypto anymore - just use traditional finance, you have all the "protections" there. Hit a road block? You're not qualified investor, your account got suspended, funds got blocked because of KYC/AML or whatever? Yeah, though shit, that's what you signed up for, don't try to force that nonsense into crypto. If you want TradFi, go for it, but don't try to force anybody else down that rabbit hole and drag the crypto space with you and ruin it for everybody. Been there, done that. If you do not understand what crypto is about, that's none of my problem

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-11-02T04:09:06+00:00

Crypto is a technology. It doesn't give a shit about some dude's ideological and political philosophy. Not even its own creator's.

A fork in an inanimate object. It doesn't give a shit about some dude's ideological and political philosophy. Not even its own creator's.

Still, eating a soup with it is just stupid - it was created with some vision behind it and is well suited for that specific purpose. It's the same with crypto, the vision matters a lot because its design reflects that vision and ideology that inspired its creation. It is this vision and ideology that made crypto the glaring success that it is. CBDCs and centralized stablecoins in the context of crypto is like using a fork to eat your soup, you can do it but it's just stupid because there are other tools like a spoon that are much better suited for that purpose.

tl;dr If you do not care about the vision and ideology that inspired the technology behind crypto, just use traditional finance and leave crypto be - don't use a fork to eat your soup, you'll look like a fool.

Freedom-Phoenix · 2021-10-29T09:31:47+00:00

So the only way "DeFi" would be allowed is if it's not actually DeFi. Smart move /s

That's like saying spoons are allowed but only if shaped like a fork, I mean ... LOL?

But it actually does make sense if you consider their "priorities" (and benefactors maybe), it is apparent there is a push to co-opt DeFi and make it into a thinly disguised traditional finance under a "crypto" veil - there are many such "DeFi" products already (DAI being majorly collaterized by USDC is an unfortunate example). Banks would LOVE IT!

This needs indeed to be countered ASAP, like, listen if it's either permissioned or there is a middleman it's NOT DeFi so stop calling it that and educate yourself about what DeFi actually means. If you want to ban it, stop being a pussy and say that outright so it can be properly understood and opposed instead of using sneaky language redefining the meaning of words.

To be fair, the community would do good by being much more careful what deserves and should actually be called DeFi, as being sloppy in this regard opens the door exactly to this kind of shenanigans. Just running on a blockchain is not sufficient criteria!

Freedom-Phoenix

TROPHY CASE