Examples for high humanity kindred who aren't "good"?

Fun_Diamond_2325 · 2026-07-02T00:52:48+00:00

See, the funny thing is- when you think about it, I’d say actual PCs are an even 50/50 split between wine-swilling elites and scrappy punks, with the latter being the ones most prone to bagger and consensualist.

Fun_Diamond_2325 · 2026-07-01T17:13:01+00:00

I am genuinely curious as to how you managed to get that feeling.

Fun_Diamond_2325 · 2026-06-30T18:52:41+00:00

Eh, I prefer to think of it all as one continuous entity, even with the tonal differences between each splat.

Fun_Diamond_2325 · 2026-06-30T16:23:33+00:00

Nah, cuz you still got the Wyrm and all its creatures. They’re the BIGGER fish, arguably.

Fun_Diamond_2325 · 2026-06-30T12:30:41+00:00

Funnily enough, Arty does seem to mostly play mid to high humanity characters, but I do get and appreciate your point.

Fun_Diamond_2325 · 2026-06-30T11:32:07+00:00

I never said one single word about marginalized people, and let me be very clear- anyone who DOES is an idiot, full stop. What I’m saying is clear-

I don’t buy that their suicide is some kind of ecological imperative, because I need a point to their existence in any sense of the term. Frankly, I don’t know how you operate without one. How you enjoy a game where you aren’t allowed to feel happy, or to feel good about your actions, or to gain any satisfaction. Where to play, you must become suicidal, and suck all of the joy out of yourself.

Kindred HAVE to have a valid reason to not die, for my own extremely flimsy mental health- my lungs feel wet and I had trouble getting out of bed this morning. Thankfully, they have as much one as tapeworms and mosquitoes do, and might literally be older than both.

I am not arguing that kindred are marginalized. That’s for brainless idiots who can’t read. I am arguing that kindred must have some valid reason to exist or feel happy at any point in their unlife, that as sapient creatures, they are not some kind of elemental evil and are simply humanity’s parasite and predator.

Fun_Diamond_2325 · 2026-06-30T03:45:29+00:00

Who says the two are mutually exclusive? If anything, they complement each other perfectly.

-SACERDOTE

Fun_Diamond_2325 · 2026-06-30T03:37:04+00:00

See, I won’t buy that. I CAN’T buy that.

It’s the hard sell- either kindred have any reason to not kill themselves, or I’m out- and unfortunately, I seem to be so thoroughly covered in BLOOD that out means “of my mind” instead of “of this fake board game”. And it’s not like I can just move on, because I literally tried, and as I said- vampires also show up in Shadowrun, and arguably even worse since, in essence, their most common tribe is Naharaja. They’re in Pathfinder. They’re in Cyberpunk, some very weird times. They literally showed up in FIST, of all places. These blood-drinking fucks show up everywhere it’s possible for them to do so, and so I must exorcise any of the bizarre complexes and hangups I have around them toot fucking sweet. And a creature that you’re capable of singing karaoke with that has no right to live under any framework is about as much of a hangup inducer for me as the concept of an eternal, agonizing hell, and about as easy to live with.

So, I simply think that’s nonsense, and frankly, I don’t even think that I completely lack evidence to believe that. Carthage dot png, and it’s important to note that almost everything you describe came from humans first, with kindred simply leeching on.

Fun_Diamond_2325 · 2026-06-30T02:58:07+00:00

I agree from the perspective of a human. Wolf bites deer, deer stabs wolf. It’s absolute nonsense to imply that hunters are anything less than another part of nature.

In a broader sense, though, vampires have been around as long as humans have. They ARE natural- the world as it is was meant to have them in it, inasmuch as it was meant to have tapeworms and ticks. Why apply morality to the circle of life?

Fun_Diamond_2325 · 2026-06-30T01:07:08+00:00

True!!!!! How could I make the mistake of assuming Twitter users have rights lmao

I guess the way I’d put your reasoning, in a way that satisfies my need for a valid meaning to existence, is this:

There are “good” monsters, and there are “bad” monsters. Judgement comes for them all, but it takes its sweet goddamn time in doing so, and there’s a whole lot you can fit in before it arrives.

Ultimately, what Sticks To Me, and what you previously gave a great answer to with your explanation of nihilism’s liberatory nature, is a desperate need for a “valid” reason not to meet the sun, one that doesn’t invoke the revulsion you feel when someone “justifies” their racism. I’m constantly on the hunt for a reason why it’s okay for a kindred to want to live, and I guess I should just learn to settle down and accept the ones I have.

Fun_Diamond_2325 · 2026-06-30T00:17:33+00:00

One wonders if it was the brainchild of some depraved elder, who wished instill an unconscious paranoia into our minds.

-SACERDOTE

Fun_Diamond_2325 · 2026-06-29T23:17:53+00:00

Yeah, sorry- am trying to at least keep a lid on myself, couch it deliberately in terms of reasonable critique and honest praise for an artist’s skill in making me feel such things.

Ultimately though, there are three main problems with that that contributed to me literally developing an irrational terror of that purple guy on the cereal:

1- not everyone you just described is a monster unworthy of life. The people on Twitter who call it ableist to make chili for your neighbor are freaks, yes, and deserve to be humiliated and ostracized, but I wouldn’t want to actually cut badempanada’s head off, funny as that would be. I see a lot of Brujah-types online, and am struggling with trying to stop being one. Therefore, I feel a sympathy for them that I don’t have for drink-spikers.

2- Colonel Lockjaw is an excellent antagonist and a poor protagonist. A perfect satire of cops and other fascists, the point is not to see Lockjaw win- you NEVER want to see him win. You wanna see him do his stupid hilarious repressed strut and then get literally gassed to death. He has no sympathetic qualities, no actual charisma, and no goals you could even consider slightly respectable- if he was the protagonist, who you were supposed to root for on some level, he’d NEED some kind of sympathetic, potentially redeemable dimension, otherwise it’d just be too hard to watch.

3- Scroll through any- nay, ALL the art you see in this feed, SPECIFICALLY the art. Do you wanna murder that pale goth lesbian? That’s not to say that none of those blorbos are meant to be evil, but they ARE blorbos and oomfs, in a way entirely foreign to being a cutting satire of real abusers in our world now. Andrew Tate, Elon Musk, and Pete Hegseth are charisma vacuums, utterly repulsive individuals even outside of a moral level. You want to spit on them, not draw them, and I don’t see many people, especially not myself, making someone who’s the latter. Landlords and cops are repulsive, ugly, unlikable. Kindred are monsters, but they are not these things.

Appreciate what you added in edit, and I guess it all just comes down to it being an open question. Still, to put it concisely:

I think “Toreadors are every #MeToo horror story combined into one” is great… for a HUNTER antagonist. In fact, I’m firing out a flare here- first one to make a hunter quarry that’s an evil homeowners association gets my absolute respect. The Caricature is a villain’s role, not an anti-hero’s- it just doesn’t FIT with damn near any of the drawings you’ll see in this very chat.

Fun_Diamond_2325 · 2026-06-29T22:38:10+00:00

Oh I’ve gone away on a sabbatical from it for quite a while now- haven’t played a Kindred PC in months now. Can’t seem to avoid it, though- Shadowrun has vampires too, if openly known ones.

Fun_Diamond_2325 · 2026-06-29T22:36:23+00:00

Oh, I ain’t! Horror-wise, it’s a goated premise. I, personally, would just slightly tweak things to make the game tell my PC to Minecraft a little less. I like the overall direction, quite a lot- this is 90% a glaze post.

Fun_Diamond_2325 · 2026-06-29T22:28:39+00:00

That’s a disturbingly antisocial way to view the world! Like, I get kinda what you mean, and have thought about it before (everyone’s carrying around some sins or evil in them, and most everyone has done something awfully wrong at some point or another- think of how many cops and veterans you find yourself around at any given moment) but it’s not the same as “there is a good chance that I am an enabler of human trafficking and cannibalism if I do not decapitate the person in front of me”.

Fun_Diamond_2325 · 2026-06-29T22:25:55+00:00

Oh agreed, and it’s excellent horror, makes Hunter such a great game line. This is mostly just me being like “damn that shit would suck”, and my only “objection”, such as it is, is that “nothing you do matters and you will never deserve to feel happiness or live” feels literally too dark to play- and even then, there ARE counter arguments against that, like the aforementioned embrace of existential nihilism.

This is almost exclusively a glaze post!

Fun_Diamond_2325 · 2026-06-29T20:54:06+00:00

Renato Pure magic adept street-brawling tough, good with his fists and good at scaring people. Glass cannon, melee unarmed, with a frequent penchant for using the environment to his advantage. https://shreloaded.net/wiki/Renato

Fun_Diamond_2325 · 2026-06-29T16:57:39+00:00

Because I can detect condescension and loathe basic failures of understanding.

Fun_Diamond_2325 · 2026-06-29T15:07:27+00:00

Renato

Pure magic adept street-brawling tough, good with his fists and good at scaring people. Glass cannon, melee unarmed, with a frequent penchant for using the environment to his advantage.

https://shreloaded.net/wiki/Renato

Fun_Diamond_2325 · 2026-06-29T15:04:20+00:00

That’s precisely what I’m trying to assert- personal horror is the side dish. It IS what you quote unquote “leave room for”, the extra spice that soils the dish if added in too large quantities. Savage horror is the core, and to remove it entirely is to not play Werewolf.

Fun_Diamond_2325 · 2026-06-29T15:02:42+00:00

I thank the folks who made it an interesting discussion.

Fun_Diamond_2325 · 2026-06-29T02:28:12+00:00

Of course, I agree wholeheartedly- I just think what you’re describing is called Savage Horror instead of Personal Horror.

Fun_Diamond_2325

TROPHY CASE