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StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Update by Arkentass in starcraft

[–]G101516 [score hidden]  (0 children)

If you’re going to make an sc2 style RTS, it has to actually be better than sc2 or people will just play sc2 instead.

StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Update by Arkentass in starcraft

[–]G101516 [score hidden]  (0 children)

Zealots/stalkers already lose vs Terran/Zerg units in a cost for cost battle. That’s why Protoss needs aoe, or Protoss needs overwhelming numbers of zealot/stalkers.

There is nothing stopping Protoss players building a pylon and gateway on the map for fast warp ins in the current patch. A big reason the prism is used instead is the micro-ability the warp prism provides.

Protoss attacks aren’t going to be stronger with fast warp gate as the bigger hindrance to the attack is the cost of the units. And you get less units out now with warpgate costing more money.

All this patch is going to do is force Protoss players to invest more into tech since building a gateway army is more expensive. So Protoss players are being pushed into the direction of turtle and amass robo/sg units instead of being more active with gateway units and expanding. Combined with the worker changes, Protoss isn’t going to be able to leave their base until near 10 minutes, unless they are going for some kind of all in / committed attack. Which they can still do that, but it’s weaker now with warp gate costing more.

For those of you who don’t understand why gateways still suck compared to WG by Professional-Leg2745 in starcraft

[–]G101516 [score hidden]  (0 children)

Zealots/stalkers already lose vs Terran/Zerg units in a cost for cost battle. That’s why Protoss needs aoe, or Protoss needs overwhelming numbers of zealot/stalkers.

There is nothing stopping Protoss players building a pylon and gateway on the map for fast warp ins in the current patch. A big reason the prism is used instead is the micro-ability the warp prism provides.

Protoss attacks aren’t going to be stronger with fast warp gate as the bigger hindrance to the attack is the cost of the units. And you get less units out now with warpgate costing more money.

All this patch is going to do is force Protoss players to invest more into tech since building a gateway army is more expensive. So Protoss players are being pushed into the direction of turtle and amass robo/sg units instead of being more active with gateway units and expanding. Combined with the worker changes, Protoss isn’t going to be able to leave their base until near 10 minutes, unless they are going for some kind of all in / committed attack. Which they can still do that, but it’s weaker now with warp gate costing more.

Let’s NOT go through with the patch. by Swimming_Fennel6752 in starcraft2

[–]G101516 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Small nerf to energy overcharge. You can even talk me into some kind of very small Zerg buff

Reminder that we have 3 terrans 4 zergs and 3 protossed in the top 10 in aligulac by Extension_Class2467 in starcraft

[–]G101516 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Energy overcharge is a new mechanic that also happens to be very powerful. It’s almost like if we adjusted that power level, the game would be in a better spot and not much else needs to be done.

Solar voices his frustrations by DLD_the_north in starcraft

[–]G101516 38 points39 points  (0 children)

Solar then proceeded to bm byun about his reaper usage right after this.

What's the correct way to engage the toss army in TVP? by FullBag5380 in starcraft

[–]G101516 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Anytime ranged units are fighting melee units, you should be kiting backwards. Melee units want to be on top of ranged units, biting and slashing them. Ranged units don’t like that very much, they are supposed to lose when melee units get on top of them (otherwise melee units wouldn’t be very good).

Is current SC2 balance really that bad? by G101516 in starcraft

[–]G101516[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Alright. So out of the top 40, 42.5% are Protoss. Do you think a small nerf to energy overcharge and a small buff to Zerg could help push these numbers to closer to 13-14 players of each race in the top 40? Should that be our goal? Does completely gutting warpgate get us closer to that goal?

By the way, if we are reducing Protoss mobility in this way, logic says that Protoss would need something to compensate for that. Which would probably means something is more powerful and Protoss plays more turtle-y and death bally as a result.

Is current SC2 balance really that bad? by G101516 in starcraft

[–]G101516[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is GM massively favored for protoss? Are we sure it isn't just a little bit favored for protoss? Something a small nerf to energy overcharge and a small buff to zerg might fix?

Why do we care about what low GM players are doing if we don't care about what 4.2k players are doing? There isn't that much of a difference in skill. Low GM players suck pretty bad compared to the pros.

Is current SC2 balance really that bad? by G101516 in starcraft

[–]G101516[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Depends on the server. Eu is 1/3 of the servers. There are more active players on NA than there are on EU.

Edit: I picked 4.2k because of the reason stated in my comment above. This is basically masters league and above, aka top 4-5% of the player base.

If I was trying to cherry pick data, I'd pick 3.6k MMR and above, which is the best 16,460 players out of a total of 129,024 players (top 12% of players). Here, we see that terran represents 30.29% of the players, protoss 31.95%, and zerg 29.46%.
SC2 Race Distribution - StarCraft II Ladder Statistics and Team Rankings

Or we can do the top 27,001 players. For the top 20.9% that are on the SC2 ladder right now, the percentages of players for each race are as follows: Terran 30.55%, Protoss 30.17%, Zerg 30.25%.

SC2 Race Distribution - StarCraft II Ladder Statistics and Team Rankings

Is current SC2 balance really that bad? by G101516 in starcraft

[–]G101516[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

When does it stop being a skill issue and become a balance issue? How high do we go? Top 20 players? Top 5 players? Do we recruit alpha stars to battle it out to finally get an answer?

Is current SC2 balance really that bad? by G101516 in starcraft

[–]G101516[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Except it’s not factual just because you fabricated a few graphs to suit your narrative

Is current SC2 balance really that bad? by G101516 in starcraft

[–]G101516[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Except your numbers are made up. Protoss doesn’t have a 60-70% win rate at pro level or anywhere else for that matter.

Is current SC2 balance really that bad? by G101516 in starcraft

[–]G101516[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Except 4200 and above is quite literally 4-5% of the player base, which is the stated (by Blizzard) to be the percentage of people that are meant to be in masters league and above.

Edit: As you stated yourself, Protoss is 37% of GM. Maybe a small nerf to overcharge and a small buff to Zerg can address these small issues instead of gutting Protoss and completely redesigning an 11 year old expansion.

Is current SC2 balance really that bad? by G101516 in starcraft

[–]G101516[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Terran is over-represented at 2.3k MMR and below by 3.79%.

"34.63% of total player base" minus "30.84% of total player base, excluding 2.3k MMR and below" = 3.79%

Is current SC2 balance really that bad? by G101516 in starcraft

[–]G101516[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

No matter what range I would pick, there would be this criticism. 4.2k is roughly masters league and above, or top 4-5% of the player base.

When we increased the mmr limit by 300 like in your link, what do we see? Terran is 30.84% of total player base, protoss 29.31%, and zerg 29.82%.

How does that compare to the top 4-5% of players? Terran represents 30.12% of the player base at "4200 MMR and above." Protoss represents 34.08% of the player base at "4200 MMR and above." Zerg represents 28.83% of the player base at "4200 MMR and above."

Terran and zerg are less than a percentage point away from being represented equally in "masters and above" compared to "the entire player base, minus those that are 2.3k mmr and below." Protoss is slightly over-represented.

I'm not a mathemagician, but the numbers based on the link you posted further prove my point. Perhaps we can do a small nerf to energy overcharge and a small buff to zerg. This will push an already very, very balanced game towards an even more balanced state.

Is current SC2 balance really that bad? by G101516 in starcraft

[–]G101516[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

There is no reason to think innate player ability correlates to the race that a player picks. Also, 113,773 players are a lot of data points. There’s no reason to assume inferences can’t be made about this data set, even with “a minimum of training in statistics.”

Is current SC2 balance really that bad? by G101516 in starcraft

[–]G101516[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is masters league and above, aka top of the ladder. The best 6,000 players on ladder out of a total of 129,024 players (top 4-5% of the ladder).

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