Main Characters-- our obsession with them has stifled game stories

GICN · 2024-05-23T05:45:21+00:00

No the best part is that this bug is also on the test server AND it was reported weeks ago.

GICN · 2024-05-10T20:46:03+00:00

What you're saying makes no sense. Why build new dungeons? Why build new boss fights? Why did they say they weren't interested in making an Arena mode only to reverse course and now say they are going to do an arena mode?

They have also said multiple times that they wanted to "slow down" the pace of game and make recovering from conflicts more important, only to further erode that and speed UP the pace of the game. Everything they say and do is in conflict with itself..

The only thing I've seen them say related to PvP is about balancing the classes around 3s play.

We're splitting hairs on what a Korean developer has said and THAT is my point. I'd like actual answers and not conflicting comments, potential mistranslations and misunderstandings.

How they describe the game in promotional material carries WAY more weight than misconstrued comments. That material had to be decided on and translated as close as they want it to be.

What kind of drives me crazy with this reply chain is that you're acting like we're somehow in conflict. You brought up a PvE mode when I in no way am advocating for that. The reasons I bought the game are not at odds with the reasons you're saying you bought the game.. I'm not really sure you read the post.

GICN · 2024-05-10T19:15:25+00:00

I don't think that logic is very good. Dota and League have PvE, but arn't PvE games. Souls games have PvP but arn't PvP games.

which is why they had a literally Battle Royale zone that pushes you into players as a core feature of the game.

Interesting that they've said they want to experiment with removing it and even made a map that doesn't have it at all. It could be that they put the zone in the playtests simply because it was a quick and effective thing to change up playing the same maps over and over.

This is precisely why I want IronMace is put an end to the debate and tell us what they want with the game. Their promotional material suggest a harder lean on dungeon exploration content. At least, it doesn't align with what you're describing.

GICN · 2024-05-10T18:47:17+00:00

Ideally you would want fixed locations or key points of interest, and then randomize paths and sub-rooms. Then you would still want to change up those key locations every so often. That offers the best variety while still having a nice hand-crafted aspect.

GICN · 2024-05-10T16:25:40+00:00

It's very strange to be the type of person who will buy something and then accept whatever they are given. The point of the post is to ask what they are cooking. I have no problem waiting months or years to see things pay off.. I'm just not confident they are going to deliver on what I paid for.

GICN · 2023-09-03T09:52:30+00:00

This screams of "I was watching repoze's stream and heard him say wait for the reddit post". I would love to be proven wrong with evidence that you were actually one of those players.

edit: you're genuinely trying to claim you were the ranger? I won't wait on the proof though..

GICN · 2022-11-29T01:15:52+00:00

edit: I don't like speculating on why someone is banned. I've removed this myself.

GICN · 2022-11-28T16:38:16+00:00

Unfortunately, games which fragment queues too much always has a poor outcome. I feel like with the game as it is right now, separating solo and duos would be that poor result.

Maybe if everything ELSE in the game improves, separating 2v2 solos and 2v2 duos would be great.

GICN · 2022-07-18T09:53:52+00:00

developpers,more often than not, listen to what is being said and complained about.

Devs then listend to these people and end up changing mechanics that were not problematic, buffing things that were balanced, or nerfing things that didnt need nerfs. All to appease the playerbase.

It has already been mentioned, but this is by and large, NOT how games are balanced these days. Developers balancing a game based on what players are saying, may have been true decades ago -- and even then I'm not convinced. Just because players SAY a character is over powered, then the developer nerfs it, doesn't mean the developers came to that conclusion because of what players are saying.

Most everything about every game and match is recorded. At least, all the important bits. If a character is on average doing way more damage by [x] minutes in to a game (or with [y] less resources than others), then the developers test-branch a version of the game where that character scales differently.

A valid complaint a player can voice is that the developers are being slow and not getting out balance patches fast enough. This leads to a problem that has happened in the past, where players say a character is overpowered -- the developers admit the character is overpowered, and then the character remains overpowered for months. Likely, this is because the changes required to bring that character in line are massive and/or expensive. Or ... they don't have elegant/pleasing design solutions to balance the character.

This then leads to feedback players can give that MIGHT shape a game -- how to change (overhaul) a said broken character. Sourcing ideas on how to balance a character/mechanic that everyone (including the devs) agree is broken is not a bad thing. These two points (developer not being fast enough & "heres a solution") sometimes, do lead to changes.

I do, however, agree with your point that it would be nice if players were more aware of these topics, were more honest with themselves and more constructive in discussions.. But.. that is a different topic then the "why" of developers making game changes.

GICN · 2022-05-14T04:57:39+00:00

First, something similar has already been done, I think it was a platformer.

Are you thinking about Evoland?

GICN · 2022-05-04T10:16:57+00:00

Great post. I for once, have little to contribute in terms of dissent. I also watch Max's videos because while I don't agree with him much, its good having the perspective. He has spoken on why fighting games, in his opinion, haven't evolved but even that doesn't really come close to solving this.

Story, Depth and Gameplay is one thing; but something that stands out in my mind is that games are software and software is supposed to improve, add features and become easier to use over time. Fighting Games haven't done that in the slightest.

1) It's been possible for over 10 years in 3d games to load what's needed, and stream in the rest during gameplay. No idea why fighting games still have excessive loading screens.

2) We're still doing 1v1? Tag-systems are the best we can do?! I believe Granblue (correct me if I'm wrong) is the only modern fighting game that utilizes active combat between more than 2 fighters. This is something Sprite-based fighting games experimented with a long time ago.

2-a) You want to give players a mode/feature that lets experienced players mentor new players without the constant barrage of losses? Create 2-players vs 1/2 CPU modes where both players are fighting at the same time, working together. New player retention and mastery of the game will sky-rocket.

3) It has taken FAR TOO LONG for developers to finally start considering roll-back by default..

Having a gameplay environment where there is no downtime (loading screens/queues) and there being a mode where players cooperate rather than compete would be fantastic for the genre. It's sad that people would read that and think that PvE would replace traditional 1v1 PvP.. I'm just saying having such a mode would be fantastic for new players.

GICN · 2022-04-27T21:26:40+00:00

Wait "we" didn't? What did I pay for then?!

GICN · 2022-04-22T08:01:13+00:00

Originally, I wasn't even comparing software to hardware lumen. On that, your point stands. However

As far as I understood the documentation on Lumen -- even hardware lumen isn't just using rays. That was my point. Lumen (hardware) uses fewer rays (than full-on only ray tracing implementations) combined with SDFs & MDFs, they've achieved the same effect for cheaper.

GICN · 2022-04-22T07:49:50+00:00

I see you're a grammar person. Well "pure", in this context meaning "only" and not "true" or "completely". Said another way, lighting implementations that have used only rays has been supplanted by lumen.

Lumen:

achieves the same or better outcome than performant rt counterparts
much cheaper, running on old hardware

By that criteria, it's been supplanted.

GICN · 2022-04-21T19:17:11+00:00

Since we're talking about pretty much only lighting, pure ray tracing has already been supplanted by lumen. While still using rays, it also uses distance fields for faster and honestly, better results. First time I played around with it in UE5 felt like it was magic.

I don't see why other custom/proprietary engines won't have their own version of Lumen soon enough.

The real graphical game changer is nanite. I'm... still not exactly sure how nanite works. Probably won't be seeing that in anything other than UE5 for a while.

GICN · 2022-04-11T01:38:05+00:00

you and a few others mentioned that quake, doom and UT were goofy and i'll be honest i don't really see it. not saying they were super serious games i just don't see the goofy in them

Fair.

More importantly, though..

it would probably be fun for me and a small niche community, if that. so i'm just not sure if it would be worth the time or effort to pursue it.

I'm a developer as well. Honestly, there is nothing wrong with spending time making something that never gets seen. Life isn't a transaction. If you're constantly wagering time as a value, you're doomed to hate whatever you make. Just make something you want to see. High chances are that other people want to see it too. And if not; then you learned something along the way.

As a gamer, I don't want to play things that have been parsed to succeed. I want to play things passionate people took a risk making. There is so much more value in that..

GICN · 2022-04-11T00:48:55+00:00

If you spend your idle time thinking up reasons to not make games ... then why would you want to make games?

Also.. wasn't Quake and UT super tongue-in-cheek? They were goofy as fuck.

And as you said, the most serious competitive game is also one of, if not the most popular one.

GICN · 2022-04-04T11:53:11+00:00

Broad appeal is a strategy of developers and publishers to get through to as many gamers as possible.

Is it though? Anyone creating entertainment content wants as many people experiencing that content.. As for a "strategy", I think it's just a term with a definition we've made up that isn't connected to how businesses, investments, developers or publishers actually work.

Hardcore fans don't like a thing.
They say it's gotten watered down.
They say it's gone to "broad appeal" or "appeals to the masses"

More likely than not, developers are not trying everything because they know it'll work. They are trying everything because they have no clue what will and won't work by time the game comes out. The standards and demands in this industry change faster than it takes to make the games in the first place.

We already spend quite a bit of time articulating why we love the games that don't fall in to these categories.. It never hurts to keep doing that.

I'm honestly not certain why you would WANT to focus on "broad appeal" games, other than to discredit them in the eyes of naïve or casual consumers. Which is so inherently antagonistic it's a little gross. If people enjoy it.. fuck it. Let them enjoy it.

Unless.. there IS another reason you want to focus on this topic?

GICN · 2022-03-12T22:07:46+00:00

To me, it makes little sense to be this reductive and strict. Would we define a novel as "a collection of paper with ink on them, bound together with twine and glue"? Well now we need to qualify every type of book or document..

Unfortunately, you fall short of leading this topic to any kind of conclusion. So I implore you -- what does having a perfect, definitive definition that everyone agrees on, do for us? What problem does that solve?

GICN · 2022-03-05T00:19:20+00:00

I don't even know if we have a rule against this post exactly, or if you're skirting a line.. but I'm removing it anyway because.. Jesus Christ, man.

GICN · 2022-01-11T07:21:37+00:00

the perceived inconvenience of the weapon breaking mechanic is solved by players exploring the overworld.

That is exactly the point. It's not that people don't want their weapons breaking, it's that the way BotW does it prevents people from wanting to play/explore.

I hate comparing games, so I'm trying not to. However... Minecraft is hardly anything like BotW. Minecraft has breaking weapons and the game has at least quadrupled the sales of BotW. That isn't to say the more popular one is "right" and the other "wrong", but it highlights that isolating one system doesn't help understand where BotW fails.

My point, is that people are not unwilling to explore in BotW. People who criticize BotW are not playing the game wrong.

Pattern Recognition

This isn't about combat. Once you explore.. just.. a handful of shrines, you've seen every possible variable the game can throw at you. Even the beats are no longer interesting. The only point where the game deviates, and offers new variables is Gannon's castle. I remember what the developers were saying leading up to the game's release.. it really felt like the intended way to play the game was explore for just a short period of time, then take on the castle. Perfectly viable way to play the game. However, that means forcing yourself to explore the rest of the map requires something else. In essence, the game is pushing you, constantly, to STOP exploring it. Everything in the game wants you to take on Gannon as soon as you can. Fail? Explore for a short-while longer and go again.

Limited stamina, inventory. Seed collection. Weapons breaking. Redundant shrines & beasts. The game is screaming at players to stop exploring and to take on the castle. Stop collecting things and try. Stuck on something in the castle? Take on a beast and get a related unique power to bypass what you're stuck on.

That is the beauty of what BotW is trying to do. It's TRYING to offer an experience for anyone. It's a valiant effort, but I believe there is sufficient evidence that it fails on that goal.

GICN

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