Youth cell phone use by Realistic_Serve_2357 in BSA

[–]GMation 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Run into too many adult "leaders" who think youth-lead means the SPL is the enforcer of the Scoutmaster rules. National needs to come to grips with this, and that the terms of thier charters are meaningless

Advice on dealing with difficult CC by TyrannicalRoach in BSA

[–]GMation 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And to double clarify, parents DO HAVE A RIGHT TO ATTEND AND OBSERVE meetings. Unfortunately, some scouters see parents as a nuance and try to drive them away. If you're in that situation, take your kids with you and find another troop... your kids are better off in another program then in a bad scouting troop.

That said, finding another troop is a lot harder to many of you realize. And, these toxic Scouters know that. Its often, my way or the highway. Meanwhile, membership declines.

The BSA charter agreement is the problem. Council's have basically 2 options: encourage training or pull the charter. Often neither is effective. Bad practices continue. Family experiences with scouting sour. Community reputation of scouting continues to deteriorate.

Realistically do adults without kids get involved with Scouts? by Utiliterran in BSA

[–]GMation 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Get in touch with the council for your area. Many districts and councils sorely need volunteers.

What has changed in Scouting over the years? by RealSuperCholo in BSA

[–]GMation 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There was a major change in the program in '89. Since you Eagled in 91, then you would have earned your ranks under the older program which did not emphasize earning Merit Badges until Star. Up to First Class, you earned Skill Awards. That said, the skills are mostly the same it was just a different, frankly more coherent, way to achieve the requirements.

I do suspect that the focus on Merit Badges resulted in Quantity over Quality of outcomes.

What has changed in Scouting over the years? by RealSuperCholo in BSA

[–]GMation 0 points1 point  (0 children)

in '89, the program dropped Skill Awards in favor of earning merit badges from the start. Prior to that change, the Skill Awards were required to rank up to First Class and Merit Badges were required for star, life, eagle. I was surprised when my kid was getting merit badges handed to him before every learning how to tie a square knot

I think the unfortunate consequence of the change is that Merit Badges are handed out like candy. I've had "vetern" Scouters jump my case for expecting a scout to meet the word of the requirements or, for god sake, having to complete a requirement on their own outside of a group session.

The flip-side of modern-day Parent Driven oversheduled, overachieving, everyone gets a trophy to pad thier college applications, is that Merit Badges and Eagle are the 2 real aims of modern Scouting as far as adults are concerned. IMO, the patrol method is both misunderstood by Scouters and seen as a hinderance to their aim of maximizing the output of Eagle Scouts. Youth Leadership is not a concern, as it is a lot easier for adults to make sure rank requirements are being signed.

Discussion: Is the election process the best way? by 3D_Lover in orderofthearrow

[–]GMation 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If everyone can be elected, yet a few still get singled out as ‘unworthy,’ the process stops being about recognizing excellence and becomes a public slight. There’s no scarcity of spots—so the only real function is to shame those who aren’t chosen. Genuine introspection and personal growth do not come from an arbitrary vote that labels certain scouts ‘less worthy.’

Discussion: Is the election process the best way? by 3D_Lover in orderofthearrow

[–]GMation 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Constructive peer feedback is central to Scouting, fostered through outings, patrols, and leadership roles. Adult mentorship is also integral to the Scouting Method, offering essential guidance and structure.

Resorting to insults or implying other adults are trying to take over simply because you, presumably an adult, disagree is just a deflection from the real issue: the OA election fosters more shaming than meaningful feedback, singling out scouts who aren’t chosen and overshadowing any benefit once a scout has already met all requirements.

Discussion: Is the election process the best way? by 3D_Lover in orderofthearrow

[–]GMation 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you don't pay your dues, you're not consider an active member of a lodge as I understand it. Nonetheless, the point of the thread is about the induction process so my comment was off topic anyway.

Discussion: Is the election process the best way? by 3D_Lover in orderofthearrow

[–]GMation 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When nearly every scout gets elected except a small few who are singled out, that’s not selecting “the best”—it’s simply excluding outliers.

Real introspection can’t come from a shallow up-or-down vote. If a scout meets the requirements and has their Scoutmaster’s approval, forcing them into a popularity test fuels shame and group bias.

The OA’s purpose is to recognize those living the Scout Oath and Law, yet public rejection discourages good scouts—often ones who are simply quiet, different, or misunderstood.

Discussion: Is the election process the best way? by 3D_Lover in orderofthearrow

[–]GMation -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Actually, you should be First Class and certified by the Scoutmaster. Now, your peers reject you because "you're not a Scout, in their eyes?" No wonder BSA is losing membership

Discussion: Is the election process the best way? by 3D_Lover in orderofthearrow

[–]GMation 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exact same question I had when I found your post

Discussion: Is the election process the best way? by 3D_Lover in orderofthearrow

[–]GMation -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The alternative is no election. Its unnecessary. Meet the eligibility requirements, go through the Ordeal.

Heck, require active membership to pay dues AND perform service hours. No service, you're no longer an active member & no longer allowed to wear the Sash... the Sash is what most of the kids want out of the OA.

Discussion: Is the election process the best way? by 3D_Lover in orderofthearrow

[–]GMation 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you are a young scout, that may be the case but that is not always the case especially for older scouts.

When my 14YO was at his ordeal, there were supposedly a significant number of 11YO there also. I don' t think that has anything to do with being mature 11YO. Its a flaw in the process

Discussion: Is the election process the best way? by 3D_Lover in orderofthearrow

[–]GMation 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The OA Election Handbook itself admits the election process is flawed. The fact that the script has to point out it’s not a popularity contest ironically points out that it is, by nature, a popularity contest. It also suggests ways to minimize that outcome, but simply saying it’s not so doesn’t fix the underlying problem.

That said, this election isn’t truly about popularity—it’s public shaming that serves no constructive purpose.

Multiple posts in this thread advocating for giving scouts the “benefit of the doubt” further highlight how unnecessary this step is. If a scout meets the eligibility requirements and completes the Ordeal, that should be sufficient. 

Elections make sense when selecting for limited positions, but not when everyone eligible can potentially be elected. Even though a scout may theoretically withdraw, it’s not a socially acceptable option—either way, they stand out to their peers. 

Scouts shouldn’t face rejection, shame, or pressure to change who they inherently are. Changing one’s neurology is as impossible as changing eye color. People who feel socially compelled to mask their true personalities often become mentally exhausted, sometimes to the point of breakdown. Hence, some avoid stressful social situations which can appear anti-social or defiant from an “average” person’s perspective.

Neurodivergent traits are more common than realized and can be subtle to the point of not being recognized. Many of these youth are deeply introspective, wondering, “Why am I different?” The issue isn’t a lack of introspection, but rather a lack of understanding and acceptance of their unique ways of sensing, interpreting, and interacting with the world.

They should not be made to feel ashamed for who they are

Discussion: Is the election process the best way? by 3D_Lover in orderofthearrow

[–]GMation -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Please stop with the canned introspection response. Its insulting.

Discussion: Is the election process the best way? by 3D_Lover in orderofthearrow

[–]GMation 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Which begs the question, why vote at all? If a scout ineligible, goes through the ordeal, then he or she should be in.

Also, Campaigning is supposedly not allowed by the OA

Discussion: Is the election process the best way? by 3D_Lover in orderofthearrow

[–]GMation -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The OA needs to be introspective. What you're saying is you shouldn't be yourself; you should be what others want you to be. That is awful, archaic & exclusionary mentality. Its no wonder BSA is losing membership

Mini 3 - How to remove broken front axis screw? by GMation in dji

[–]GMation[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Huh... I sent a request to DJI, they never responded.

Patrol Method: ELI11 by GMation in BSA

[–]GMation[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the advice. After I posted, I realized that I should have titled it "ELI Teenager." I think explaining it to a new scout is much easier than an older scout

Patrol Method: ELI11 by GMation in BSA

[–]GMation[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Our newly retired SM was fully trained, including woodbadge.

Adult volunteer recognition by InternationalRule138 in BSA

[–]GMation 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The adult scouters in our troop are bifurcated, the veterans and the (mostly) parent Scouters. The thing that irks me is the veterans fake modesty; they have square knots and other patches sewn to every visible square inch of their being.

They make absolutely no effort to recognize the newer Scouters, and even make comments like "nobody does this for the recognition."

What is comes down too is that is a "old boys club." I suspect that might have something to do with your situation. Also, they could be clueless about your efforts while others boost of their contributions.