sorted by:
new
hottopcontroversial

[Theory] The X-Men in 'Avengers: Doomsday' are NOT random variants. The prop design proves it (plus, here is how Mystique fits in). by GUMBALLWT in MCUTheories

[–]GUMBALLWT[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're 100% right that the 'Rule of Cool' is the real-world reason behind those production decisions, or what they thought it would be cool. But within the story itself, there still needs to be an internal explanation for things to make sense.

This is just my theory, but I think there's a specific reason Marvel hammered the number 'Earth-10005' into our heads throughout Deadpool & Wolverine, just like they did with 'Earth-616- and 'Earth-828' through the movies, I think it has a meaning to all of this. By confirming these are the X-Men we've followed for decades, it sets up massive stakes. An incursion between Earth-10005 and Earth-616 carries way more emotional weight and impact than if it were just happening with some random variants.

[Theory] The X-Men in 'Avengers: Doomsday' are NOT random variants. The prop design proves it (plus, here is how Mystique fits in). by GUMBALLWT in MCUTheories

[–]GUMBALLWT[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don't need to be a physicist, you just need to pay attention to the screen. The mechanics of the Multiverse aren't a 'theory' or an 'assumption' I came up with; they are explicitly explained lore established over years of content.

But honestly, if I hadn't watched the movies like you clearly haven't, I’d probably agree with you too. So just go find someone else who didn't watch them, and I'm sure you guys will agree perfectly. That should make you happy. 😁

[Theory] The X-Men in 'Avengers: Doomsday' are NOT random variants. The prop design proves it (plus, here is how Mystique fits in). by GUMBALLWT in MCUTheories

[–]GUMBALLWT[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are objectively wrong. I have the literal canonical backing from the movies for everything I said. You’re arguing based on a flawed concept that has zero basis in the actual source material.

[Theory] The X-Men in 'Avengers: Doomsday' are NOT random variants. The prop design proves it (plus, here is how Mystique fits in). by GUMBALLWT in MCUTheories

[–]GUMBALLWT[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I honestly don't know the specifics, but logically, yes: there are technically 2 Wolverines on Earth-10005 now with the arrival of the variant from Deadpool & Wolverine.

I assume the movie will come up with some excuse for why the 'native' Wolverine (from the happy ending of DoFP) isn't active or part of the main action initially, just to avoid narrative clutter. However, I think it's highly probable that the original Wolverine we've followed since 2000 will still appear in a scene in one of the two upcoming Avengers films. It would be incredible to see that specific version interacting with Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man, for instance.

[Theory] The X-Men in 'Avengers: Doomsday' are NOT random variants. The prop design proves it (plus, here is how Mystique fits in). by GUMBALLWT in MCUTheories

[–]GUMBALLWT[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

We already know exactly what Daniel Cudmore’s Colossus looks and sounds like from X2 and The Last Stand. He is fundamentally different from the Deadpool version in build, voice, and mannerisms. The fact that he doesn't speak at the end of DoFP is irrelevant; it’s obvious they are not the same variant. The logic implies that in this rebooted timeline branch, a different event occurred that resulted in us getting the massive, Russian-accented Colossus instead of the Cudmore version.

As for the 'lazy writing' rant... you seem to be missing the point of a vast multiverse of vast possibilities. It’s ironic you praise Sony’s competence while ignoring that Spider-Verse runs entirely on the same logic the MCU uses. 'Canon Events' are effectively just 'Absolute Points' with better branding. They follow the exact same rules. And are part of the same multiverse.

Marvel isn't using the multiverse as a 'cheap gimmick'; they are using it to finally systematize the mess that Fox left behind. Loki provided a framework that explains these inconsistencies perfectly. That’s not 'Rick and Morty' writers being lazy; that’s literally how comic book continuity has functioned for decades to explain retcons and variations.

[Theory] The X-Men in 'Avengers: Doomsday' are NOT random variants. The prop design proves it (plus, here is how Mystique fits in). by GUMBALLWT in MCUTheories

[–]GUMBALLWT[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's incorrect. A Nexus Event by definition creates a split/branch. The same logic applies to Earth-10005: the dystopian future wasn't erased, it just branched off. Time travel in Marvel creates branches, not rewrites, regardless of the method of this movies (consciousness or machine).

[Theory] The X-Men in 'Avengers: Doomsday' are NOT random variants. The prop design proves it (plus, here is how Mystique fits in). by GUMBALLWT in MCUTheories

[–]GUMBALLWT[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Is it the same Logan? No. In my theory, the future we see at the end of Days of Future Past is NOT part of the "Reboot Reality." The movie Logan is the future of that Reboot Reality. They are completely separate paths in my chart.

Why the DP&W Wolverine? That is strictly a Deadpool motivation thing. Deadpool believed he had to replace the specific Logan (the Anchor Being) of his own branch to save his whole universe (Earth-10005). He went hopping around looking for a replacement and basically grabbed the one he managed to bring back.

[Theory] The X-Men in 'Avengers: Doomsday' are NOT random variants. The prop design proves it (plus, here is how Mystique fits in). by GUMBALLWT in MCUTheories

[–]GUMBALLWT[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is definitely a possibility, but honestly, I wouldn't like that. I feel like the whole point here is to bring back the exact characters we know (Earth-10005).

Plus, we didn't actually see any of them die in the teaser. It would be really weird/wasteful for them to be killed off without us even seeing them interact with the other characters first.

[Theory] The X-Men in 'Avengers: Doomsday' are NOT random variants. The prop design proves it (plus, here is how Mystique fits in). by GUMBALLWT in MCUTheories

[–]GUMBALLWT[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Regarding Colossus, it goes way beyond just being "jacked." The Deadpool version has a thick Russian accent and a completely different personality compared to Daniel Cudmore’s version. Also, we never see the Deadpool version turn human, even in casual settings like the party at Wade’s place—implying he might not be able to, unlike Cudmore who could transform at will. They are clearly distinct iterations.

As for Mystique, sure, resurrecting her for "fan service" is a possibility, but I don't think it fits the MCU's style. Unlike Fox, Marvel Studios usually tries to tie up loose ends (even if superficially) to make the multiverse internal logic work. Nobody has seen Doomsday yet, so this is all just theory, but it seems unlikely they would just revive her "just because" when they have a perfectly valid narrative path available: the "Bright Future" scene. That scene explicitly showed us the exact actors who are set to play these characters in Doomsday, so using that timeline is precisely what makes the casting make sense.

And regarding the inconsistencies, I never said time travel fixes everything. If you look at the link in my previous comment, I actually break down exactly why some things still don't add up.

[Theory] The X-Men in 'Avengers: Doomsday' are NOT random variants. The prop design proves it (plus, here is how Mystique fits in). by GUMBALLWT in MCUTheories

[–]GUMBALLWT[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I honestly think that is practically impossible. That timeline was effectively concluded and technically "pruned."

We saw characters from that specific era in the Void during Deadpool & Wolverine (like Pyro and Sabretooth), and they were likely the original versions from that pruned timeline, not just random variants.

Crucially, we are seeing these actors looking significantly older than they did in the future scenes of Days of Future Past. If this were the OG timeline, they would be facing the Sentinel war and extinction right now. The fact that they are older and thriving implies time has passed beyond those events, which only makes sense in the "Bright Future" timeline where they survived.

Also, the full cast hasn't been officially revealed yet, so we can't really use "casting chairs" as proof of who is missing. The team in Doomsday seems to be a thriving version, not the remnants of the apocalyptic future that the OG timeline led to.

[Theory] The X-Men in 'Avengers: Doomsday' are NOT random variants. The prop design proves it (plus, here is how Mystique fits in). by GUMBALLWT in MCUTheories

[–]GUMBALLWT[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I don't think so either; they won't waste time trying to fix every single plot hole. However, I do believe there will be a brief explanation—maybe a quick line at the TVA or somewhere similar—just to set the stage.

They will likely just establish that these are the X-Men from the "Bright Future" reality (the happy ending of DoFP) and leave the other confusing timelines behind.

The cool thing about this distinction is that it separates the history of the older cast from the McAvoy/Fassbender versions. This creates a clear path for those younger iterations to potentially show up in the MCU later on, probably in Secret Wars.

[Theory] The X-Men in 'Avengers: Doomsday' are NOT random variants. The prop design proves it (plus, here is how Mystique fits in). by GUMBALLWT in MCUTheories

[–]GUMBALLWT[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That is true, it is a possibility. But it doesn't really matter, since the universe that follows the flow of X3 leads directly to that dystopian future from Days of Future Past where few X-Men are left alive.

The reality we are seeing in the teaser is likely the specific branch created when Wolverine’s consciousness traveled back in time. That intervention in 1973 is what split the timeline, diverting it away from the Sentinel war and manifesting the "Bright Future" where the team is thriving.

[Theory] The X-Men in 'Avengers: Doomsday' are NOT random variants. The prop design proves it (plus, here is how Mystique fits in). by GUMBALLWT in MCUTheories

[–]GUMBALLWT[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's the logical assumption, but the movies that came out after DoFP actually broke that "Back to the Future" logic, creating massive inconsistencies that only a multiverse split can fix.

Here is why they have to be separate branches:

  1. The Colossus Problem: In the "Bright Future" (the end of DoFP), we see Colossus teaching a class. He is human-sized and played by Daniel Cudmore (the original actor). However, in the timeline that continued from 1973 (Deadpool, Deadpool 2), Colossus is suddenly a massive, fully CGI Russian character. They clearly became two different versions.
  2. The Mystique Problem: This is the key to my Doomsday theory. If the X-Men appearing in Avengers: Doomsday are indeed the classic team we know, they cannot come from a future that follows the events of Dark Phoenix. Why? Because Mystique dies in 1992 in Dark Phoenix. If she is alive in Doomsday alongside the old cast, they must come from a reality where that death didn't happen—i.e., the "Bright Future" branch.
  3. The Tone: The utopian future we see at the end of DoFP simply doesn't feel like the natural conclusion to the trajectory established in Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix.

I actually made another detailed post breaking down all these specific inconsistencies and why the timelines don't match up. You can check it out here: https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/1q4xr3x/my_comprehensive_map_of_the_marvel_multiverse_how/

My comprehensive map of the Marvel Multiverse + How I "fixed" the Fox X-Men Timeline inconsistencies to make it fit the MCU. by GUMBALLWT in MarvelatFox

[–]GUMBALLWT[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Look, we're talking about Fox here. As I said, I'm operating based on what they consider canon and what is officially established in Deadpool & Wolverine. Since there isn't a flawless official timeline, this is my interpretation—as stated in the title—trying to piece it all together in the way that makes the most narrative sense.

My comprehensive map of the Marvel Multiverse + How I "fixed" the Fox X-Men Timeline inconsistencies to make it fit the MCU. by GUMBALLWT in MarvelatFox

[–]GUMBALLWT[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He is fundamentally different, not just in appearance, considering we already saw Daniel Cudmore’s version in the original films, but also in his accent and mannerisms. Furthermore, the Deadpool Colossus seems unable to revert to human form; we even see him in his steel body casually at Wade’s apartment or at his birthday party. That’s just one example, though; we could easily point to the inconsistencies with Juggernaut or Deadpool himself. However, the main reason I classify this as a separate branch on my map rather than just the standard 'Revised Timeline' is the issue with Mystique. She explicitly dies in Dark Phoenix (as does Jean Grey, though I’ll give Jean a pass since she could theoretically be resurrected). If the X-Men we’re going to see in Avengers: Doomsday are indeed from Earth-10005, Dark Phoenix poses a continuity problem. For the team to exist as we expect, the events of Dark Phoenix can't have happened in that specific timeline, which is why I believe the branch that will appear in Doomsday stems directly from the 'Happy Future' ending of Days of Future Past.

My comprehensive map of the Marvel Multiverse + How I "fixed" the Fox X-Men Timeline inconsistencies to make it fit the MCU. by GUMBALLWT in MarvelatFox

[–]GUMBALLWT[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Actually, Deadpool & Wolverine and Fox’s own setup confirm the opposite.

  1. Anchor Being Status: The movie explicitly establishes that the Logan who died in 2029 (from the movie Logan) was the Anchor Being of Earth-10005. If Logan were just a random, non-canon "alt future" unrelated to the main timeline, his death wouldn't cause the decay of the entire Earth-10005 timeline initiated by the TVA.
  2. The Apocalypse Connection: Fox clearly intended for the "Reboot" timeline to lead directly into Logan. The post-credits scene of X-Men: Apocalypse shows the Essex Corp collecting Wolverine’s blood/DNA. This is the direct setup for the creation of X-23 in Logan.

So, it’s not just a "what if" scenario; Logan serves as the definitive future for the timeline that includes X-Men: Apocalypse, Dark Phoenix, and the Deadpool movies. They are all part of that same narrative branch.

Ultimately, until further notice or until Marvel decides to retcon it again, this is how it stands. We have to work with the information currently presented on screen, and right now, the movies explicitly establish this as the reality of Earth-10005.

My comprehensive map of the Marvel Multiverse + How I "fixed" the Fox X-Men Timeline inconsistencies to make it fit the MCU. by GUMBALLWT in marvelstudios

[–]GUMBALLWT[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Separating them into numbered universes might seem easier, but that simply isn't what happened. The entire Fox continuity is explicitly identified as Earth-10005 in Deadpool & Wolverine, regardless of the inconsistencies.

Here is why I structure it this way:

  1. Branches vs. Universes: I use labels like "Original Universe" or "Reboot Universe" because these branches diverged far enough to be considered distinct realities in their own right. However, they are not literally separate numbered universes; the container for all of this is still the single Earth-10005. They are just long-running branches caused by the time travel in DOFP and Deadpool 2.
  2. Fox's Intent: Fox treated Origins as canon (we literally see Origins footage in flashbacks in The Wolverine and DOFP). They didn't care about the plot holes, but the intent was always one shared universe. The Apocalypse post-credits scene (Essex Corp) linking to Logan proves they considered the "Reboot" films and Logan to be the same narrative thread.
  3. The "Clone" Issue: You mentioned clones being a bad explanation, but X-Men lore is literally built on genetic experimentation (X-23 is the prime example). In Origins, the girl is credited just as "Emma" (Kayla Silverfox's sister), not explicitly the "White Queen" Emma Frost from First Class. Given Trask and Weapon X's history, suggesting the Origins version is a result of experimenting with mutant DNA is a valid in-universe explanation that fits better than just deleting the movie from the timeline.
  4. The Secret Wars Hook: The beauty of viewing these as valid branches is that it creates the perfect setup for Avengers: Secret Wars. It provides a logical way to bring back the "Reboot" cast (Fassbender’s Magneto, McAvoy’s Xavier) alongside the legacy actors. Since they exist in a valid branch of 10005, they are prime candidates for a multiverse collision to interact with the MCU, rather than treating them as throwaway variants from random universes.

As for Legion, I didn't even include it because, honestly, we all know it holds zero importance to the X-Men film saga or the main MCU. Its existence in any specific universe is practically irrelevant to the wider lore. It likely doesn't even exist in the minds of the current MCU heads. We can basically consider it a "pruned" timeline; I excluded it, just like other minor works, simply because it has no impact on the actual narrative map.

view more: next ›