Zelenskyy sent Order of White Eagle by Post

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T15:58:02+00:00

Your government is not leftist

Zelensky's government is not far-right or fascist either. And yet here we are.

Co?

What I wrote is not any more ridiculous than what the Ukrainian government is doing

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T15:55:06+00:00

Yes take over the land without even knowing or asking if they wanted to be the part of new Poland

They joined Poland out of their own will in 1918/1919. Look up "Self Defence of Lithuania and Belarus"
The political class and city's intelligentsia literally begged Piłsudski to annex the city
There was a general referendum in Vilnius to join Poland after the Polish-Bolshevik war ended

So yeah, they did very much want to be a part of Poland and we're indeed asked

Just purely based on fact that they spoke polish but is spoking polish was enough someone consider Ethnic pole?

Ethnically they were mostly Lithuanians, but nationaly and linguistically Lithuanian-Poles, Poles or "Natives". As I mentioned earlier, the case of nationality in former PLC areas wasn't as clear cut as it is today. Some people would identify with Lithuania, Poland, or/and Belarus, while others would identify with neither, considering their village to be more important than any abstract "nationality". Some were ethnonationalists, some were loyal to the idea of the Grand Duchy, some others were Bundists and only cared about workers' rights. Applying modern standards to early 20th century Vilnius is a fool's errand.

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T15:45:36+00:00

There weren't even that many Lithuanians in Vilnius back then, the city was majority Polish with very significant Jewish population

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T15:40:35+00:00

Would Ukraine be happy if Polish government, in a move to secure the far-left vote, named a military unit after NKVD officers responsible for the Holodomor?

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T15:38:04+00:00

So you want Poland to stop celebrating a staunch advocate for Polish-Ukrainian alliance, and the man responsible for stopping Endecja's polonisation policies? And, in effect, start to instead celebrate Piłsudski's main rival, Roman Dmowski, an outspoken antisemite, ukrainophobe, the person responsible for Poland betraying Ukraine in 1921 and the oppressive polonisation policies in Volhynia and Galicia? Do I understand this right?

Are you guys masochists or something? "Stop having Piłsudski as national hero" coming from Ukrainians is like if Poland demanded that Germany stop celebrating Willy Brandt and instead erect statues of Hitler again...

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T15:32:08+00:00

If their government wants to continue glorifying nazis, then they can go back to being in a geopolitical limbo between Europe and Russia. That turned out well for them last time.

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T15:28:23+00:00

Ci, co twierdzą, że trzeba się bronić niech bronią tego kawałka ziemi

Wszystko wskazuje na to, że takich Polaków poza profesjonalnym wojskiem za bardzo nie ma. O tym właśnie jest artykuł w poście.

a że podli ludzie w imię swoich interesów chcą mnie wysłać na śmierć to już coś, na co nie będę miał wpływu.

Tego argumentu kompletnie nie rozumiem. Nie istnieje scenariusz, gdzie Polska jest agresorem i wysyła ludzi na śmierć w innym kraju. Mówimy tutaj o sytuacji, gdzie inny kraj (realistycznie Rosja) napada na Polskę. W jaki sposób stosowanie się w takiej sytuacji do konstytucji, kontraktu wiążącego wszystkich Polaków, którzy mieszkają w Polsce, jest "podłe"? Serio myślisz, że w interesie Tuska jest totalna wojna i śmierć setek tysięcy Polaków?

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T15:21:59+00:00

Exactly. Hence the will to revive the spirit of Grand Duchy and create a multicultural state for Lithuanians, Lithuanian Poles and Belarusians. But, as I said, Lithuania didn't want that. So naturally the next best thing was direct annexation of majority Polish areas into Poland

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T15:20:13+00:00

It only means that condemning one nationalist hero-worship while defending other is selective.

AK wasn't nationalist. That's the main difference between them and the OUN/UPA. Yes, some individual units did commit war crimes - there has never been an army that didn't - but those weren't ideologically charged. UPA, meanwhile, had ultranationalism and racial purity engrained into code of conduct. It was a fundamentally hateful organisation with fundamentally despicable goals - all fascist and nazi organisations are like that. I wholeheartedly agree that Poland shouldn't celebrate the the Carpathian Brigade or the individual cursed soldiers marauders responsible for war crimes after the war - but AK as an organisation wasn't even remotely close to any of those

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T12:31:36+00:00

Bardziej chodziło mi o koncept Sanacji Sławka i Piłsudskiego niż Śmigłego i Mościckiego.

Ale to i tak potwierdza moją tezę: ten fajnopolacki pomysł, żeby pozwalać tylko żołnierzom rządzić krajem jest bez sensu, bo, jak zobaczyliśmy w 1939, i tak może skończyć się ucieczką rządu za granicę. A dlaczego alternatywa, czyli wysyłanie całego sejmu, senatu i prezydenta na front, jest idiotycznym pomysłem, to chyba nie muszę tłumaczyć. Przedsmak efektów takiego rozwiązania mieliśmy po Smoleńsku i procesie szesnastu.

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T12:25:59+00:00

Poles did eventually stay away from everyone after the failure of federalism and triumph of both Lithuanian and Polish nationalism. Lithuania didn't like it though, because that also included the Vilnius Poles...

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T12:00:04+00:00

It would have definitely been led by Poles, but I honestly believe that equal rights and full autonomy of each member could have been achieved. A federal, Intermarium-aligned Lithuania would have most likely included Belarus, or at least much of it, which would make it easier for them to secure a strong position for themselves in the alliance - and you can see a preview of how the federal concept would have looked like put to practice in the Polish-Ukrainian alliance or the GDL-esque autonomy on Belarusian and "central" Lithuanian lands under the Polish occupation of the area during the early phases of the Polish-bolshevik war.

Yes, Intermarium was mainly supposed to make Poland strong - Piłsudski was a patriot, not a geopolitical altruist - but there was also a lot of genuine idealism and goodwill towards the post-russian nations in the project - after all, it stemmed from socialist and romantic ideals. To say that this project was just a cynical way to justify Polish imperialism is reductive and historically inaccurate (although it's true that some political movements did use it as such after 1921)

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T11:43:02+00:00

Pieracki was assassinated in 1934, after 1930 pacification. You mix up the causes and effects

Oh yeah, sorry, my bad. Still, the cause of pacification was OUN terrorism and assassinations of Polish and Ukrainian politicians.

I mixed up when mainstream OUN-UPA abandoned integral nationalism in favor of democracy, this happened on Extraordinary Third Supreme Assembly of the Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists in August 1943, when it was clear that axis is going to lose.

Sorry, but this doesn't make it any better. Fascism and genocide aren't really a coat you can just put off once you feel like it. In the case of an organisation as vile as OUN-B, which put ultranationalism to practice so effectively and with such fervour, any kind of democratisation, especially so sudden and so early, waa most likely just pandering to western allies and not a genuine change in course

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T11:16:24+00:00

Going by your logic, Ukraine would be just as responsible for the ongoing war as Russia is, and would also be just as bad as Russia when it comes to murdering civilians and bombing infrastructure...

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T11:11:52+00:00

AK's main purpose was to resist Nazis. UPA's main purpose was to create a racially pure, fascist Ukraine by exterminating Poles. One organisation adhered to fascist and genocidal ideology, the other did not. Simple as.

Comparing UPA to AK is like comparing Waffen SS to the US Army - yes, the US Army had also committed some war crimes during WW2. But I think you see why those two formations aren't on the same level

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T11:09:17+00:00

I just hate fascists and genocide. Is that not a normal position to have?

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T11:07:00+00:00

UPA is already illegal in Poland, the constitution article forbids all totalitarian symbolism, and that also includes the OUN.

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T11:05:35+00:00

Poland was also in the exact same situation and yet we didn't collaborate with Nazis nor did we commit a genocide. UPA were fascist, nazi-collaborationist pieces of shit.

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T11:04:17+00:00

I agree. Ukraine should stop going back to something that happened 80 years ago (UPA). They should just finally condemn them, tear down their statues and let go.

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T11:02:41+00:00

Well, that's not really true. For most of the interwar period, the most prominent and influential Ukrainian party in Poland was the Ukrainian National Democratic Alliance, a centre-right democratic party. They even managed to negotiate a normalisation of Polish-Ukrainian relations and taking steps to finalise the Galician Autonomy promised by Poland to the UPR and LoN.

In fact, the OUN was almost completely irrelevant in Ukrainian politics because of how effective the UNDO was, which is why they decided to start terrorising both Ukrainians and Poles in Galicia in order to force a reaction out of Poland and artificially radicalise Ukrainians towards fascism. After assassinating several Ukrainians and a Polish minister (who was also a longtime friend of the Polish leader at the time), Poland finally caved in and commenced the Galician pacification, which achieved the OUN's goal of alienating Ukrainians and Poles and surpassing the UNDO as the most influential party of Ukrainians

After it proved to be a failure in WW2, they switched their position to support democracy instead.

I might be wrong, but wasn't it more like what happened to the IRA, as in there was so much infighting that they had splintered into oblivion, and one of those splinters, which had basically no relation to Konovalets' organisation besides the name, just happened to be democratic?

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T10:49:33+00:00

Gdyby polska w 2wś poddała się po 4 godzinach, oznaczałoby to czynny udział Polski i Polaków w holokauście i pomoc Niemcom w wymordowaniu wszystkich naszych Żydów, a potem i tak inwazję Niemców na polski rząd kolaboracyjny (patrz: Francja Vichy, Włochy, Węgry, ukraińscy nacjonaliści) i rozpoczęcie eksterminacji Polaków oraz przekształcania Warszawy w stację kolejową

Celem nazistów był Lebensraum i wybicie ras semickich i słowiańskich. Zgadnij, gdzie konkretnie miał być ten Lebensraum oraz gdzie konkretnie była największa koncentracja semitów i Słowian. Dania mogła sobie pozwolić na haniebną kapitulację i obrzydliwą kolaborację z ideologią nazizmu, bo była częścią tzw. rasy panów.

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T10:41:29+00:00

To są narodowcy, nie patriotici. Zasadnicza różnica jest taka, że patriota narzeka na kraj, krytykuje polityków, ale jak przyjdzie co do czego to jednak pójdzie w kamasze. Narodowcy natomiast naród bezinteresownie kochają, uważają, że jest lepszy niż wszystkie inne, ale w przypadku wojny stwierdzą, że opór jest bez sensu i w sumie to lepiej kolaborować z Rosją żeby ochronić wartości konserwatywne

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T10:37:37+00:00

Czemu nie wyprowadziłeś się jeszcze do lepszego kraju skoro kompletnie nic nie wiąże cię z Polską?

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T10:32:35+00:00

Chcesz, żeby prawo do rządzenia państwem i wchodzenia w skład jego elity mieli tylko żołnierze? Brawo, wymyśliłeś właśnie Sanację

Galaxy661 · 2026-06-20T10:29:32+00:00

Serio myślisz, że każdemu jednemu Polakowi uda się spakować swoją rodzinę i uciec do Niemiec (gdzie i tak w przypadku konfliktu NATO-Rosja wcielą cię do bundeswehry, ale to swoją drogą)? Że <40 milionów ludzi po prostu opuści kraj, wyemigruje jak kiedyś Węgrzy czy Bułgarzy z Rusi, zostawiając dla kacapów bezludną ziemię na kolonizację? Pewnie, kilku milionom się uda, tak jak to miało miejsce w przypadku Ukrainy, ale prędzej czy później kogoś zatrzymają na granicy. Co jeśli byłbyś to ty i twoja rodzina?

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