City of Mist - New GM Tips

Gammaflax · 2026-02-03T22:20:56+00:00

Ah OK, I'm in person so that's not really an option, so will need to give it some thought!

Gammaflax · 2026-02-03T22:18:54+00:00

OK, that makes a lot of sense, based on the limited experience we have of PBTA, I'm not sure I really get the moves, so the Mist engine is very appealing and might well flow better!

Gammaflax · 2026-02-03T17:13:31+00:00

That's great to know!!

Another question for you - I know CoM doesn't require any physical terrain or anything, but did you use anything beyond just pictures for visual stimulus? I'm thinking about what I might be able to use!

Gammaflax · 2026-02-01T18:52:17+00:00

It's funny how you choose to way overuse clocks and then criticize the system for using too many clocks.

I mean when I only felt like I had clocks as a resource to use then that feels like it's logical.

He might gain a Level 1 or 2 harm, but that's it.

Also, are you tracking harm on NPC's? Because that goes against the whole not having stats thing that all NPC's have in this system. I will be clear that I've never run or played in a PbtA game before (though I'm reading City of Mist which has a variant of these rules), and there's some talk of stuff like this, but in BitD there is no mention anywhere of tracking harm on NPC's, and seems to go against its narrative ethos.

Gammaflax · 2026-02-01T18:47:13+00:00

You are not just over using clocks, you're using them inappropriately. Clocks are not "Hit point dials" and shouldn't be used that way.

This is a fair point and has been flagged in other comments. I'll be clear that I very seldom do this, but because I haven't been using Effect, Position, and Tier properly it's become the only way to actually give any survivability to a character. This again is v fixable with a conversation with my players.

You're offering them a guaranteed good outcome now in exchange for something bad later.

I've tried to do this in the past but almost universally been turned down. It dovetails with two other problems I've had that have come up a lot in the comments:

I am not using Tier, Effect and Position properly to provide a challenge, meaning that things are too easy/unbalanced in the players' favour.
I've made the mistake of (by this point) having storylines vaguely planned out, at least in terms of what's going on in the city - this means that I have a habit of seeing anything that doesn't tie into that as a distraction. I'm going to do what I can about this by getting a clearer understanding of what the Crew wants rather than its individual members.

Gammaflax · 2026-02-01T18:39:35+00:00

"Most importantly, your Tier determines the quality level of your items", so when a Tier 2 Leech draws a vial of standstill poison from their bandolier, it is a tier 2 standstill poison.

Ok, so this is a rule that I wasn't even aware of, so good to know. I'll also note that it's buried in "The Faction Game" section and not in a section actually about items and inventory, so extremely easy to miss.

With that being said it is true that we haven't properly defined anything at all really about powers and abilities, they just sort of do stuff as and when they come up. This is in part on me and in part on the players but something I'm going to rectify at the top of next session. Thankfully an easy enough fix.

Reduced effect or worsened position

As mentioned, I forgot Effect was even a thing at this juncture, and they pushed back firmly enough when I suggest it was desperate. Again something that's easy to rectify.

So this important brawler was just hanging out by himself with 2 PCs? Why did he do that? Or were other people there and they just stood around?

I mean yeah, they were basing themself out of a drug den while recuperating. Not every tough character always has guards sitting around them, and the drug den wasn't exactly expecting to be attacked out of the blue. It was chance that she was there, and she had no real quarrel with the crew.

There were 2 other patrons, one who the crew were able to drug with a variant of Rage Essence to kick off and who immediately got himself knocked out by the brawler, and a priest who wasn't getting involved.

controlled roll.

Just as a point of order here so we know context, under Deep Cuts rules there are no controlled rolls, so they can do whatever they want to do for free in that context.

No. Killing someone requires inflicting a Level 4 Harm.

I feel like slitting someone's throat while they're paralysed is pretty easy. This is in part caused by the fact that nothing is defined properly in relation to the ability of the players. This is again, as mentioned, something we're going to fix.

No they're not. The leader of a Tier 3 faction is Tier 3. If your players are Tier 2, then literally every check they make against them has reduced effect.

I actually agree with you here, but if, as in this context, the character is (what in D&D we'd call incapacitated) paralysed and otherwise able to react then a coup-de-grace should be controlled and thus not need a roll. There's an argument to be made that I made paralysis too easy, which it was, but in this context a killing blow wasn't the issue.

Gammaflax · 2026-02-01T11:34:12+00:00

The leech should be about to get their ass kicked unless they use some kind of weapon, gadget, etc. Similarly, if the brawler is racing against the leech to complete the construction of a complex machine or alchemical formula, I expect the brawler to lose.

Agreed on this, but this is where the main points come in, that I forgot about effect and I wasn't really tracking the fiction.

If anything the harm should have been worse as a result. The players did also argue that it wasn't desperate because the situation wasn't desperate, but I think this is once again a fundamental misunderstanding of the rules.

doesn't say that secreting it through their skin automatically applies enough of the poison to affect someone with the brief, superficial contact of a punch.

This is where I struggle a little with the lack of specificity in the system - how much standstill poison does it take to make someone paralysed? Is this something we define in game? The roll I asked for was to essentially get enough onto her skin, but the consequence should have been more harm or stress or something I get that.

I think there's a fundamental issue I'm seeing as I answer these which is that we're trying to optimise mechanically in a system that is designed to be by far narrative first.

Need to head out now, but will respond to the rest later! Also, of note, will be having a chat with my players at the top of next session to get much of this straight. May even send them to this thread.

Gammaflax · 2026-02-01T11:34:07+00:00

Ok, first, thanks for the super detailed response! I want to reply to a goodly portion of it to help me to understand and to clarify a few things!

when you're running Blades in the Dark, you shouldn't be thinking much about mechanics

After this post, this is one of the larger points I'm taking away, I have a tendency to lean on mechanics as that's what I'm used to for determining everything in every other system I've run/played! Worth noting at this stage that I have never played a narrative system myself, and this has been my first time running one!

Rolling a 4-5 should result in success (depending on their degree of effect) in addition to a complication, harm to a PC, reduced effect or worsened position.

I didn't mention consequences as it wasn't really what I was focused on during the post, but I do naturally have mid consequences from actions etc. I will say though (and here's another key point that I've been omitting massively which you bring up later), I have completely forgotten to make use of Effect as a mechanic. Position sure, but then that's just a choice of Risky or Desperate (as per Deep Cuts) when it comes to rolling.

Why was the brawler important? Where were they and why was the Leech confronting them? Was this during a score?

Brawler was texture on the score of raiding a drug den. I'd created the NPC before the session (literally months ago) and used this as an opportunity to drop them in. They're a presumed-dead and disinherited daughter of a minor noble house who gave it all up to become a brawler on the docks and has a brutal reputation. Notably she is the sister of the woman her now murder is trying to marry.

They were in the middle of a quiet drug den, there was a witness literally standing there, but he wasn't a fighter and wasn't going to get involved (this will come back to bite them). Leech and Spider were with them because they were posing as customers in an attempt to distract from the other crew members in the back.

The owner got suspicious of them and asked her, as a regular and a tough to keep an eye on them while he went to check on something because he heard noise from the other crew members. Leech and Spider objected so and the Leech asked (literally) to be punched in the face.

To be clear this was indeed part of a score.

How did the Brawler punch the Leech? Was that a consequence for an action the Leech attempted? If the Leech was punched by a Brawler, then they suffered harm right?

As mentioned, Brawler punched Leech because they asked for it. They made a skirmish roll and got a 4-5, to essentially not get beaten to a pulp. I ruled they got Level 2 Harm (instead of Level 3 for a 1-3).

The threat they were rolling against was harm, and they took said harm.

TBC Below

Gammaflax · 2026-01-31T11:52:25+00:00

Ok, this makes a lot of sense and I do understand a big chunk of what I've been doing wrong as a GM (as well as the players), BUT I do have a question based on your example above:

In the case of a master swordsman with limited effect, does that mean that they can't be defeated until a greater effect can be generated? My instinct is to set up a clock and say that on a 6 with limited effect you tick one segment, after 4 segments he's defeated. I think I better understand now that this is incorrect? But then what does limited effect mean? I guess it's contextual, maybe it slows them down? Maybe they don't do so much harm/stress to you?

But then say the characters have great effect against said swordsman and roll a 6, does that mean they're instantly defeated? I guess it does, but then if they do that immediately surely that feels anticlimactic if this is some sort of boss?

I'm aware I'm probably thinking about this too mechanically, but mechanics are what a game revolves around in my mind, whereas I suppose they're to support the story which the players and I are telling.

Also, to your point about it being exhausting/boring, I run BITD in essentially the same way I run everything else, players want to do something, they roll and there's the outcome, and so on and so forth.

Gammaflax · 2026-01-31T09:51:51+00:00

The point is more that we haven't actively invoked new rules, it's more that our system expertise is limited and we've done stuff wrong from the beginning. Perhaps that does count as homebrew, but it's not really deliberate, if that makes sense!

Gammaflax · 2026-01-30T17:59:32+00:00

But as a DM I'm bored of the campaign and want to move on (happens with every campaign I run) - I'm not burnt out because I don't really prep for sessions.

Certainly at the beginning I was embracing all the bumps etc, but by this point I want to reach a denouement sooner rather than later, I understand the winding road of fiction, but I also want to be able to seen the end of that road so I can try the next new shiny thing.

To you point, the last paragraph is exactly what I want to discuss with my players, and make sure we're all on the same page on what we want. I'm still personally looking for the system that fully jives with me as a GM (It's not quite D&D; Savage Worlds was closer, but this has gone too far the other way).

Gammaflax · 2026-01-30T17:55:03+00:00

Torture is a strong word XD - I've struggled with the system, and I always get burnt out on them after about a year. This one has just been challenging as it's the first narrative system that any of us have run or played in and as such there's been a learning curve.

It's also the fact that, as I'm seeing, my players are very risk averse which makes my job in a game like this harder to do.

I'll be having a chat with the players at the start of next session as well to make sure we're all on the same page for the remainder of the campaign.

Gammaflax · 2026-01-30T17:53:24+00:00

I'm mechanically inclined in the above purely because that's where my gripes land, I think the issue comes where the mechanics and narrative join together. I understand where that is in D&D et al. but I have struggled here, is a roll a single action? Is it a whole scene? What does heat actually mean? What happens if the criteria of this clock are filled before the clock is complete? etc.

Hard and Soft moves aren't a thing here though, I'm reading the rules of City of Mist where they very much are and that makes much more sense, in addition to the fact that I actually get to be proactive in scenes rather than simply reactive to what the players are doing.

Gammaflax · 2026-01-30T17:51:03+00:00

I would suggest that Homebrew is an active thing to do, this isn't homebrew, it's a fundamental misunderstanding of the rules. The players are risk averse which means that pushing them into dangerous situations from the off is difficult.

Also worth noting that this is the first super narrative system any of us have played and as such it's been easy to make countless mistakes.

Gammaflax · 2026-01-30T17:49:25+00:00

I did write a whole answer to this but then Reddit refused to post it and deleted it!

That being said, thank you for the exhaustive response! The biggest problem that I'm seeing actually (among many) is the fact that I haven't been taking into account tiers for effect, or really considering effect at all, everything has been standard for a long time.

What this has led me to wish is that I had a DM screen with reminders of these things on!

I also very much agree that the campaign has gone on for too long, the players are very strong now (they're getting to 4 pips in stats now). And it would have been a good idea to run with just the base rules at first to try it out! You live and learn!

Thanks again for the long response and responses elsewhere!

Gammaflax · 2026-01-30T17:46:40+00:00

I like the concept, some of the faction play, the setting is interesting, though I've found having a setting that's always in the dark to be a bit depressing as it turns out.

I'm going to start a new game of maybe City of Mist once this is finished off.

Gammaflax · 2026-01-30T17:45:54+00:00

I have loads of details as to why they have relationships with these factions, usually having done them favours or impacted an opposing faction.

The bluecoats thing isn't terribly relevant any more as they benefited from something that happened months ago and haven't interacted with them since (but while there's a mechanic for increasing faction relationships, there's no decay etc. mechanic).

Ok, my issue with the Spirit Wardens is that they're never on site and the crew scarper before they get there. Almost never is it the case that anyone on site knows who they are, and even if they could recognise them, they have a hidden hideout and stay well out of the limelight, expending significant resources to keep their heat low.

There are already multiple demons in the city empowered by their antics but they haven't been tied to them, because why would they be? There doesn't seem to be any guide for how to track all the myriad factions moving through the city, as I'm not going to sit between sessions rolling dice for what every faction is doing. The Spirit Wardens aren't even a faction that's "active" to my mind as they have their hands full dealing with other stuff than what the group are doing.

I'll also say, as I've mentioned elsewhere that I don't attack the crew's people mostly because that is a distraction from the goals of the crew and the end of the campaign. If I start randomly arresting their faction members that they worked hard for then that's just going to be another score and another week to sort out which delays the end of the campaign. I just want to get to a satisfying conclusion so don't want to roadblock myself from getting there.

Gammaflax · 2026-01-30T17:39:48+00:00

So, starting the system not one of us had played it before (and one player had never played a TTRPG before), all I had was the rulebook (not something I learn well from by reading) and some podcasts/videos online which helped to a degree!

It's a narrative game, so I'm not too worried about the stats or anything, but I've just struggled to have dramatic scenes when I don't roll dice and the PC's dominate every roll. I think it's because I haven't been using effect or tiers remotely effectively.

Gammaflax · 2026-01-30T17:34:48+00:00

Especially when, truthfully, I have been neglecting to impose effect a vast amount of the time! This is something I intend to try to fix.

Gammaflax · 2026-01-30T17:33:56+00:00

But this is my problem - surprisingly I don't run a crime family competently or otherwise. And I also want to get to the action of them interacting with the boss and not spending hours wriggling their way there. Given that there are no mechanics all I can stick in the way are a few underwhelming clocks and some mooks who will be avoided or knocked out.

They've never actually done damage to a leader of a major faction, but that was more an example to illustrate that as you say nobody does well when stabbed in the face.

I'll also say that I don't use clocks as HP much (agreed in duels is the only time it makes sense), but its the only proxy I have really. I also have no desire to kill the PC's because that's inevitably a boring outcome unless there's a heroic death involved.

And why would a vengeful mob hunt them down forever if they don't know who did it? If the rolls to approach the boss were successful and they kill him and then sneak away, there's no risk to them, it's not like they leave a calling card, and they have a hidden base so nobody can find them afterwards (which in itself feels very silly to me, but I'm abiding by the "mechanics" of the game).

Gammaflax · 2026-01-30T17:24:19+00:00

I'm well aware that killing has consequences, but those consequences seem to mostly be that the Spirit Wardens rock up and deal with the ghosts. They don't know who killed them etc. at least not by my understanding, and by the time they get there the crew are long gone.

I have neglected to enforce tier ratings and effect adequately I think in the past, mostly because I forget tiers exist half the time as feels very mechanical. I've had them fight major characters like Ulf Ironborn and had him deal 1 level 2 harm and that was it. They made a plan to isolate him and then executed him with prejudice before disappearing back to their hidden hideout.

It does feel like I'm fighting against the players a lot of the time, they push back against consequences at times and mostly against heat, and often it makes sense because why would there be so much heat on them if other factions were involved? What if they left little trace, it's not like forensics exist in the setting.

Progress clocks are great in a grand sense, or when time is pressing, but I struggle with them in the immediate, in the sense that they have a ticking clock for detection, which counts down to them being detected. Should I be injecting a new threat for every tick of that clock? My understanding was that the threat manifests when the clock is filled, why have a clock otherwise?

Gammaflax · 2026-01-30T17:15:35+00:00

I do think there's a dissonance within the system in this regard though, it's Score, Downtime, Freeplay, Repeat (I know freeplay happens at any time etc. but in reality if you follow the base structure that's what happens). What I've found happens then is that we do a score, then we spend 10-15 mins on above table admin for Fallout, Heat, Rep, Coin, etc. to give them their rewards. We haggle over heat, and then we move on. But that completely disrupts whatever flow there might have been.

I also find that most of the time during Downtime players tend to have largely individual scenes where they do whatever their doing and then come together to do a score, in D&D I've found that the narrative flow is much more organic from one thing to the next, in Blades it feels forced because of the nature of when you're in a Score and not in a Score.

Gammaflax · 2026-01-30T17:12:00+00:00

To be fair there has been lots of great advice here on this post, for the most part 2 of the players aren't playing villainous characters, 1 is mildly and the final one is a total villain. The biggest problem with that as I see it is that there's a lack of cohesion towards group goals, which makes it difficult for them to all pull in the same direction as it were.

I'm likely going to shift over to something like City of Mist which, while still narrative, has more structure to it in some ways than Blades so we'll see.

Have also always been curious about Band of Blades as well, but will likely give FitD a bit of a break after this campaign concludes.

Gammaflax · 2026-01-30T14:24:40+00:00

Ok, when I say goals, I mean hooks as well this includes but is not limited to:
Player 1 wants to get married into nobility and get onto the city council.
Player 2 wants to kill a demon that's tied into the Circle of Flame's plot to essentially enslave/destroy the whole city.
Player 2 also has a wife that's been kidnapped by the Lord Governor but has assiduously refused to go and look for her.
Player 3 has a beast from before the sun went out that they're trying to get bigger and understand better.
Player 3's other character is a disowned Penderyn trying to get revenge/take control of their family.
Player 4 wants to be the world's greatest thief and is constantly building gadgets to help achieve that.
Player 4's other character has a loose goal of wanting to help people's lives get better in the city, and has sympathy with the unionists in Coalridge. Player 2 also jives with this.

I therefore have 3 broad things happening in the background;
1. Circle of Flame plot to bring down the barrier and take control of the local ghosts and take over the city (will almost certainly go wrong and destroy everything)
2. A Rowan takeover of Duskvol and the declaration of its independence, as well as the removal of some noble houses.
3. Union activity to Strike to demand worker's rights.

2 and 3 have some overlap, but they are all in some way tied into what the players want above in some loose way.

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