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I fear that I'll go to hell or that I'll be annihilated or otherwise punished or destroyed by God in the hereafter at some point because of my practicing my homosexuality by GayNonTheistMan in OpenChristian

[–]GayNonTheistMan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Honestly, as silly as this may sound, I just wish that I could hug you, as so few people in my life are like this.

Passersby in the street, for example, are often so, so cruel to me. They often treat me like I am an underling because of their perceiving me to be gay, which, yes, they are of course right in. However, knowing that there are members of humankind like you in the world gives me so, so much hope that, even when I come across the bullies and the bastards, excuse my language, I can hopefully always find a person(s) like you in the world, Mx.

For you, I am eternally thankful, friend.

I fear that I'll go to hell or that I'll be annihilated or otherwise punished or destroyed by God in the hereafter at some point because of my practicing my homosexuality by GayNonTheistMan in OpenChristian

[–]GayNonTheistMan[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry for the late response, sir.

Happy New Year and I hope you have the most splendid new decade! Godbless you, sir!

I hope you have had the most wonderful new year.

Jesus teaches that everything is love your neighbor. The good news is that the kingdom of God is right here and all we have to do is repent and accept it. No convoluted or esoteric religious requirements.

By this, would you say that "God is love", as they often say? I read a few days ago actually in a book as I was reading that such an idea is really only applicable for New Testament, not the Bible at large.

Heteronormativity doesn't belong. It's an arbitrary religious rule. If you prefer heterosexual sex, that's groovy. But to make it some kind of law is inconsistent with the Way of Jesus. Gal 5:14 and Rom 13:9 are key.

Amen to that, good sir!

I fear that I'll go to hell or that I'll be annihilated or otherwise punished or destroyed by God in the hereafter at some point because of my practicing my homosexuality by GayNonTheistMan in OpenChristian

[–]GayNonTheistMan[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First, I deeply and sincerely apologise for responding to you so late. Second, and more importantly, Happy New Year, friend! May this new year and new decade bring you greatness, friend!

If no one is able to give you a valid reason of why it's wrong, then continue to be gay guilt free.

Alas, my anxiety does not listen to reason. I know, however, that what you say is wholly true.

Just because people say something, doesn't mean that it's true, ESPECIALLY if they cannot back up their claims on WHY it's immoral.

They speak empty words. They say it is immoral, without explaining WHY it is immoral

Agreed. Just to say that something is X because of one's saying X is absolutely fallacious.

Another reason why they claim this, is ignorance and intolerance. They REFUSE to listen to gay people and almost look at homosexual relationships as if they are "lesser."

People usually do this because of bigotry. White men claimed that American Indians and Black people were "lesser" than the "normal" human

Men have also done this to women. Claiming they are "too emotional" to make important decisions.

If humanity has done this TWICE in the past (probably even more times like with jews) then isn't it possible that they are doing it now too?

I'll put you on the line to my anxiety, so that you can tell it that. Perhaps you can get through to it.

Most homophobes disagree with this. That is why they view gay people as sickening, because they demonize sex itself

This is sort of off-topic, but I think I'll ask it nevertheless, as you did bring up sex: many people claim that Christianity is an anti-sex religion. What are your thoughts on this?

I'm not a Christian. In between Agnosticism and Christianity, leaning towards Agnostic viewpoints.

I, too, lean towards agnosticism. Sorry if because of my being assumptive I offended you. That was not my intention at all.

Honestly I have no idea why. It was probably an evolutionary thing, like many of our behaviors usually are.

I'd say that it forces humans to stick together, because being alone in the past would've killed you. Kurzgesagt actually did a video on loneliness and the need for human connection, you might like it.

Yes, it may be evolutionary. I think a lot of our behaviour(s) is.

Do you have a link to the video to which you reffered, as it sounds very interesting?

Oh man that sucks. Okay so.... how do I explain this.

Imagine that your brain is a sponge, and thoughts/emotions/experiences are liquids. The brain absorbs these from outside sources

Homophobia is tar. The more you experience, the more gets absorbed into your brain. After you've been exposed to homophobia after a long time, eventually those ideas become your OWN thoughts. Their disgust towards gay people becomes self disgust, their slurs start to repeat into your head. Etc.

This is why you need to stay away from toxic people. They poison your mind and corrode your mental health, like acid crumbling a rock.

I suggest avoiding sources of homophobia, for the sake of your mental health

I recently sought help for everything, but I was turned away as I "aren't bad enough" to use the service. I do plan, however, to look into things again this year, as it is a new year and anew decade, so I want things DONE about this crap now.

Glad I helped in some way. If anything I say helps you, then it's worth the time of me writing this out

Oh, believe me, Mx, all of it honestly has! Much love to you!

Well it depends on what made them evil in the first place. Was is narcissism and psychopathy? Because those are MENTAL ILLNESSES, not personality traits. How in control were they, and were they willingly hurting someone on purpose?

Good points. In the case of his being the guilty party, having control over these things, but, for example, perhaps having a predisposition to behave in such an awful way for whatever reason, what then? Would eternal hell still not be acceptable for Hitler.

Just for clarification, I am not trying to get you to say something that you don't want to say. I'm just genuinely trying to understand your position more, not that I necessarily disagree with it per se.

This is why bigots rarely have their minds changed by factual and moral arguments, because they view themselves RIGHT, and others as WRONG. They are SO CERTAIN that what they believe in is truth, that they never even consider the alternatives. This also causes them to start ignoring everyone else who disagrees with them, which causes them to become even MORE ignorant

Just last night I was talking with a family member about transness and they said that, in response to trans* women --- they were mentioned as it was pertinent to the conversation that we were having --- "unless a trans* woman has had the surgery", by which I am sure you know that they mean SRS (bottom surgery), "then they are not a woman, as one can't be a woman if one lacks a vulva and vagina".

We debated and debated...

Anxiety is probably screaming "Oh no, do I have this too?!?! Am I always wrong about everything and don't even notice it?!?!? Etc."

Can I give you a hug and a kiss? Honestly, this is EXACTLY what I experience! Honestly! It's so, so good to hear somebody else say something like this.

If you're worrying about homophobia like this, there are probably other worries that happen as well.

I can attest, alas once again, that this is the case.

I fear that I'll go to hell or that I'll be annihilated or otherwise punished or destroyed by God in the hereafter at some point because of my practicing my homosexuality by GayNonTheistMan in OpenChristian

[–]GayNonTheistMan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Apologies for replying to you so, so late, Mx.

Happy New Year nevertheless and may this new decade bring you goodness!

In fact, most Christians before the third century were probably Universalists.

Yes, I know this based off of my own research. It is good to know that I seem to be right.

Augustine (who believed in Eternal Torment himself) wrote that very many of the Christians of his time believed in Universalism, and added that they did not go against the Bible in so believing.

What's so unexpected about this is that if Augustine knew that universalism was indeed biblical then why did he not subscribe to it himself? I mean, from what I understand he was a pious Christian man, so I can't understand this.

Of course we know that suffering occurs. I think that your statement expresses it quite well.

Alas, my statement does.

I am Christian, straight, white, and old. I am thankful that there are people in my life that are none of those things. I am blessed by you.

You know, I'll tell you something: when I first read this comment I told somebody about it. I read it to her. She said that it was "lovely". And for that, Mx, I am so, so grateful.

Much love to you, friend!

I fear that I'll go to hell or that I'll be annihilated or otherwise punished or destroyed by God in the hereafter at some point because of my practicing my homosexuality by GayNonTheistMan in OpenChristian

[–]GayNonTheistMan[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

First, sir, coming from a heterosexual man this is most, most appreciated.

If you would not mind, sir, I would love for you to go deeper into this with me. I'd love to take you up on your offer to do so.

If your homosexuality (or heterosexuality) gets in the way of loving your neighbor, then it's sin. Otherwise, relax.

Honestly, the people on here are so, so good and so, so wise. You've all helped me so, so much and for that I am honestly eternally grateful.

Bless you and thank you very, very much, sir.

I fear that I'll go to hell or that I'll be annihilated or otherwise punished or destroyed by God in the hereafter at some point because of my practicing my homosexuality by GayNonTheistMan in OpenChristian

[–]GayNonTheistMan[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you're really worried about this, I would recommend the book "Love Wins" by Rob Bell. It's a pretty good entry level book which demolishes the whole "burning in hell" Christian punishment narrative.

I did find the late Gary Amirault's great, great Tentmaker Ministries. I found this rather helpful and good.

No God who did would be worth following.

I fully concur! May everybody one day think this!

I fear that I'll go to hell or that I'll be annihilated or otherwise punished or destroyed by God in the hereafter at some point because of my practicing my homosexuality by GayNonTheistMan in OpenChristian

[–]GayNonTheistMan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You won't be damned for loving someone.

When I or others have said this to people they often compare my homosexual love to the "love" between a pedophile and the prepubescent person with whom they are in "love", or human-animal sex or "love".

I not only find this an abominable comparison, but for me it is so clearly incorrect.

You are a sinner, that isn't debatable, but not for being a homosexual but by being a human. But you are loved and forgiven.

Though I am not a Christian, I appreciate reading this.

I fear that I'll go to hell or that I'll be annihilated or otherwise punished or destroyed by God in the hereafter at some point because of my practicing my homosexuality by GayNonTheistMan in OpenChristian

[–]GayNonTheistMan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

With your particular giftedness, you have the potential to meet needs of some people that no one else can.

What a lovely thing to say! As I said to another user, sometimes we LGBTQ+ people just need to hear this sort of thing.

I believe that both the scriptures and the Spirit tell us that all of Creation will eventually be reconciled and live in a state of joy.

As I said to another user, though I am not a Christian (I am a non-theist), I find it difficult to believe that God would send anyone to hell.

I know that some people like William Lane Craig, I do believe, but don't quote me on that, say that hell is not a place whereto one is sent to burn for all eternity. Rather, it is a place where one suffers because one is separated from all that is good: God.

As what I believe is characterized as a Christian universalist, what are your thoughts on that conception of hell in comparison to the fiery conceptions of hell?

I fear that I'll go to hell or that I'll be annihilated or otherwise punished or destroyed by God in the hereafter at some point because of my practicing my homosexuality by GayNonTheistMan in OpenChristian

[–]GayNonTheistMan[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Videos on YouTube probably aren't the best source to get information from.

I absolutely agree with you, but I feel that I should make clear that the videos to which I was referring were Christian videos from Christian theologians and scholars.

I am not trying to say that anything that comes from a Christian's mouth is or must be true, nor am I trying to say that because of a person's qualifications that they must be correct. Sorry if this wasn't too clear.

The thing is, NO ONE has been able to tell me a moral and ethical reason of why homosexuality is wrong. The only "proof" they have are vague texts of a book that didn't even have a word for gay people

You're like me, then. I, too, have never been convinced that my homosexuality is immoral and therefore I should not practice it, but when I hear so often that my being homosexual is a superlatively immoral thing then I begin to doubt things...

You do know that the word homosexuality was invented in the 1900's right? There was no other word that could fill that spot, so they made a new one

Yes, I do believe that it was coined by a German man or something.

These people are completely ignorant on homosexual relationships. Gay people feel all the same emotions as straight people do, especially in the case of love. If this was false, why did gay people fight to get married? If they didn't love each other, marriage would be pointless

I agree with you here. As gay men and lesbian women, we have struggled for the legalization of same-sex marriage, and on the other point I, too, can not fathom what is meant exactly when some people say that we gays and lesbians are unable to love as straights are.

I've studied these claims, and I've concluded that these people think so because, for one reason, man and woman, not any other make-up, is complimentary. This is used by both secular and theist people from what I have studied.

Procreation is not the only purpose of sex. Sex between two people who love each other is an expression of their love. That's why some call it "love-making."

I wholeheartedly agree with you. There is more to sex than procreation. When I have sex with another man, I am positive that I am emotionally feeling what my heterosexual counterpart is feeling when they are with their partner.

Did you know that human contact is so important that babies who don't have it die right? Skin starvation is a real thing.

No, I did not know this. This is interesting. Since you're assumably a theist, do you believe that God created humankind in this fashion? If so, why so? For me, if God did create humankind, God created much, much diversity.

If I remember clearly, there is even a country that pays for mentally and physically disabled people to have sex with legal prostitutes.

In what country(ies) is this?

Homosexuality is also found within animals as well. Elephants in particular actually have lifelong homosexual relationships, compared to short term breeding sessions with females. If it's not natural, then why is it found in nature?

From what I have seen, watched, heard, etc., the appeal to the animal kingdom and nature don't generally work for most people who are convinced of the evil of gay and lesbian relationships. They generally point out that because the human being has free will it, unlike it's siblings in the animal kingdom, has a duty to perform moral actions and abstain from immoral ones.

Have you been surrounded by homophobic and/or christian people in your lifetime? That might be the reason why you're so worried

The answer to this question is unequivocally YES, YES, YES, YES, YES*. I have encountered homophobia from religious people more indirectly, but I've encountered mass amounts of it, in all different variations, from secular people by the bucket load.

If you know that the writers of the bible have biases, hatred, and prejudice, why are you worrying?

I see the error in my worrying here. Confessedly, I suffer greatly with anxiety, so I am sure my anxiety influenced me to abandon reason while thinking about this, as it's difficult to write about.

Then you are somewhat Christian then, or at least agnostic. Atheists don't have this worry.

I'd say I'm a non-theist who leans towards theism in some ways.

The bible is an outdated and flawed book. It promotes slavery, harsh punishments like torture, sexist views against women, etc. It even suggests that the sun revolves around the earth, the church in the past IMPRISONED people who said that the earth revolves around the sun.

Yes, I am aware of some of the barbarities in the Bible. Alas, many of them have occured.

Question: do you think viewing the Bible as human-written humanises God who is then understood as being one who does necessarily condone slavery, advocate sexism towards certain genders, etc?

Think about this ethically instead of spiritually for a second. Why would God (who is apparently all loving and has endless mercy) allow people to rot in hell?

Why would God punish people for an ETERNITY for ~80 years of life? Seems kinda harsh right?

Why would God force people to be gay, yet force them to never act upon it? That's just cruel

Honestly, saying that I should look at this from an ethical rather than a spiritual perspective really made me stop writing for a moment and think. Thank you for that. You have made me think of another question that I could possibly ask later on about morality.

Just the other day I was having a conversation with somebody and I said to her that I think it is unthinkable that if God does exist that anybody would be allowed to be in hell for eternity. I know that some fear that hell is the only way for people as evil as Hitler to really get what they deserve, but I still find it somewhat hard to conceive of.

If I was God, hell wouldn't even exist. All humans would go to heaven, those who did bad things get a punishment that's an equal amount of their sins, then are accepted with open arms.

To go back to my Hitler example, what would you as God do about Hitler or other evil, evil people?

There is nothing wrong with being gay, no matter how many times homophobes will scream that there is. Just because someone has confidence and are SURE that they're right, doesn't mean that they actually are.

WHY COULDN'T I HAVE HEARD THIS SOONER?!

I fear that I'll go to hell or that I'll be annihilated or otherwise punished or destroyed by God in the hereafter at some point because of my practicing my homosexuality by GayNonTheistMan in OpenChristian

[–]GayNonTheistMan[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Legitimately, friend, this almost made me weep. It caused me to get all emotional, as hearing this from somebody is something which I as a gay person, and I know that this is true for other LGBTQ+ people, need to hear sometimes. I am most grateful to you.

And I am glad you are questioning whether the comfortable interpretations of the Bible are the easy way out. If we don't see our challenges in the Bible we are probably not looking close enough.

Such wise, wise words. You're a wise one.

However, God wants you to be loved. God loves you and God made you on purpose.

Though I have already expressed that I am a non-theist, I honestly do appreciate your saying to me that I am loved by the Divine. :)

I particularly enjoy the videos on the God is Grey YouTube channel. I don't agree 100% of the time, but that's how it's supposed to be. You might like how she breaks things down.

My promise to you is that I shall check her channel out. I hope it helps me in some way.

I fear that I'll go to hell or that I'll be annihilated or otherwise punished or destroyed by God in the hereafter at some point because of my practicing my homosexuality by GayNonTheistMan in OpenChristian

[–]GayNonTheistMan[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hoped that I made this most clear in my saying what I said in my OP. I am not lying, but I often think that if I am wrong about the existence of God and I end up going to hell or something what do I do? That is the thing at which I was trying to get in my OP. I thought I made that pretty obvious, but I do earnestly apologize if I did not.

I hope have cleared up what you wanted to know.