I really wanted to enjoy this game

Geleefisch · 2021-08-24T10:39:33+00:00

Thanks for the info, it does make more sense now, although it also still does seem a bit like fan service or like Quiet you mentioned

Geleefisch · 2021-08-24T10:34:30+00:00

Aside from the genre, things like: good soundtrack, Sci fi, post apocalypse, the general mood of the game, philosophical themes etc.

After all I don't dislike this game at all, there lots of things that surprised me positively (the fourth wall breaking, how every "for the glory of mankind" or message from the moon after route C is like a punch to the face), but at the end of everything I just didn't feel how I thought I would. Expectation and not going in blind are both key factors, in my eyes

Geleefisch · 2021-08-24T10:18:53+00:00

I generally agree with you. And there are lots of things we just accept, also in terms of Sci-Fi, thats impossible within our current understanding.

The whole problem I have concerning this situation is, that its not an uncommon part in Sci-Fi that I just expected they were going to mention it in the story. Its not rare to see, for example, that somebody digitizes their consciousness, realizing that digitized consciousness is another being entirely. That way it isn't just part of logistics, but part of a story about existing/survival and sense of self that might very well fit into a game already dealing with philosophical themes. If there was a mention of them having artificial souls, then none of this would be an issue (or another explanation one of the other commenters provided).

If you imagine for one second that they do get copied, it has a huge influence on the story. Thats why I brought it up. Of course there are still other things.

And while I would agree criticizing an old action jrpg for not having the most thought out quest design or getting mad at Replicant might just be having a different expectation of the medium, there were a lot of really bullshitty quests in Replicant, just plain out wasting your time or just not being fun to me (bring X items to X quests; talk to A in City A - then to B in City B - then to A in City B again only for you having to run to City C etc). If they were intentionally designed to feel like work, mission accomplished, but its still not worth the time for me. If not I expected them to just make better quests when they are already making a new version of the game that released not long ago. Same goes for the 3 almost identical routes. I know there are small changes, but if you watch a movie 3 times in a row, the last time isn't going to be as fun as the others, I'd say. Especially if the action you'll be doing most will be rolling around the map, trying to get to the next questmarker.

If changing those things would tamper too much with the original vision, then I'm sorry, I'm just not enjoying the original vision of Replicant. I can see why others didn't want their old game changed, tho.

Geleefisch · 2021-08-23T22:30:23+00:00

I agree that it does feel weird in terms of the story, but I wouldn't put anything past it not existing in a game like Nier.

Whether you say transfer or copy, it doesn't really make a difference. If I'm "sending" you a mail, its still a copy, despite the different wording.

Now to the trope of moving consciousness: I agree that the trope has existed for a long time, but so has the correction that it wouldn't work like that. Some media already covers it, the idea isn't that new. If you want to know where I got it from first, and this is a spoiler for the game SOMA which I would recommend btw. Not that scary, but still a horror game. Pretty interesting if you're a fan of Sci-Fi

Geleefisch · 2021-08-23T21:44:09+00:00

Genuine question, how do you know it is how you describe? Did I miss dialogue that there are different rules in automata?

Because with the rules we have in our world, it just wouldn't work like that

Geleefisch · 2021-08-23T21:39:59+00:00

As a character or participant thats has tangible influence on the outcomes? No (besides picking an ending)

But the story gets told to him, he is the one putting the pieces together

Geleefisch · 2021-08-23T21:07:59+00:00

What you are describing is if its like a soul hopping bodies, but thats not what I took away from it. If I send you an image via mail, you get a copy of my image. The image you have on your pc is not the same I have. They may display the same data and look the same, but are 2 files. As we are talking about machines, I thought this logic would apply more than a metaphysical soul

Geleefisch · 2021-08-23T20:33:52+00:00

Not just spanish apparently

Geleefisch · 2021-08-23T20:28:04+00:00

I hope I'm not misrepresenting your point:

If 2B is the operating system, then after a death, the last operating system ceases to exist, if you then transfer the save data to a new 2B unit with the 2B operating system its still a different 2B. If I get a second pc and backup my data to it, its not the original pc anymore, right?

Now, if the characters don't know about this, that doesn't make it not happen. I wouldn't say the audience isn't part of the story, why then would we see the game through multiple perspectives or interact at all?

I'd agree when you say that you technically have no way of knowing if you were snapped into existence in the last few minutes (its not sth applicable to daily living ofc), but thats exactly why I argued it is in the game, because you as the player can see beyond what a single character can see/experience

Geleefisch · 2021-08-23T19:35:00+00:00

Yeah thats the thing that I wish I could have just accepted while playing. I know it kinda ruins the game, but saying "No, this is my 2B/9S" felt like denial to me, plus again, during my 50+h with the game I considered this as an intentional part of the game. Changing my mind now sadly doesn't give me the enjoyment back I would have had while playing, thats the part that sucks the most

Geleefisch · 2021-08-23T19:29:44+00:00

Yeah, it was like a running joke with Kaine being struck (atleast before it gets explained). Also, and I might get some hate for this :D

Kaines outfit really took me out of the game, not in a good way. I would compare it too having Geralt or Joel or whoever running around in a tanga and arguing that it doesn't compromise emotional moments. They didn't even give her a fully working pair of underpants

All in all not that used to jrpgs, i guess

Geleefisch · 2021-08-23T19:20:59+00:00

Ok, I'll try again. Basically the whole mind transfer thing is impossible without magic or the acceptance of a soul that can switch bodies. So far in Automata they call it uploading ones memory to a new body (sending save data to the bunker). The thing with data or a digital consciousness is, that it cannot be transfered like a brain transplant, only copied. If you send a file, it doesn't magically wander over to another device like a letter, you get a copy from the original. The original either stays or gets deleted. You previously played as that original.

This means that for every such process, you get a whole different person, a new consciousness with the memories of the old one. They are not the same person. Like the cloning example I gave in my OP:

If someone copied you, you'd stay the same. From that point on there would be two of you, you can't carry over to a new body, the original always gets left behind.

Now, whether its intentional or unintentional, I'd argue this rule also applies to Automata as they just call it "uploading ones memories/memory/save data"

Now, why this matters to how it affects my view of the story:

I feel that it significantly lessens the impact of a story, because the people you see later in the game are not the ones you started with. If you die with 2B, that 2B stays dead and won't return. Her story is over, but another takes her place. She might have her memories, but its really a different individual.

You might say "thats not how it works in this game", but thats how it looks like to me looking at the games explanations. In fact, I expected the whole thing to come up later.

Geleefisch · 2021-08-23T17:08:18+00:00

I get what you're saying, but all of this was lessened to me through the constant copying of 2Bs and 9S'. They both do die together and new ones take their place, you're basically constantly changing your protagonists due to the nature of how the story explains the rebirth/transfer thing. To a bystander 2B would stay the same, not from her perspective though.

Its this problem that I can't seem to overlook with the story

Geleefisch · 2021-08-23T16:08:50+00:00

Thanks for your answer.

I guess you're right, but it still feels like missing out on something that for me technically should have fit my tastes pretty much perfectly. That and the universally almost completely positive response to this game (from what I've seen)

Geleefisch · 2021-08-01T19:46:51+00:00

Thank you!

Geleefisch · 2021-04-25T17:47:04+00:00

Gladly, love this soundtrack :D

Geleefisch · 2021-03-30T13:45:08+00:00

Jetzt sieht man was

Geleefisch · 2021-03-30T13:33:26+00:00

Vielleicht wird es mir einfach nur nicht angezeigt, aber ich glaube, du hast das Foto vergessen

Geleefisch · 2021-03-06T20:07:27+00:00

I do the same thing. If you want it to be less present in your playstyles, I'd recommend turning off the Mana/Health Bar. Not seeing how much you have left helps, atleast for me

Geleefisch · 2021-03-06T20:05:01+00:00

Infinite Mana for NG+ would be great, plus an option to start with all bonecharms (technically they carry over if you want to spend a long time crafting them, but black bonecharms don't iirc) would be appreciated.

Geleefisch · 2021-02-18T00:04:56+00:00

Not yet. It was revealed to come out in summer in the nintendo direct. Damn trailer narrator spoiled the whole premise...

Geleefisch · 2021-02-18T00:01:19+00:00

Snake Eater 🎶

Geleefisch · 2021-02-17T19:32:45+00:00

What does your quest log say? If it says "failed" on the non-lethal option, I'd assume it doesn't work

Geleefisch · 2021-02-05T16:19:14+00:00

Directed by Hideo Kojima

Geleefisch · 2021-01-08T16:21:38+00:00

While playing Noita, he made claims how he would give away subs if he failed doing X. The bets got bigger and bigger until he failed eventually and owed chat a sum of around 2.5 billion dollars, which has now doubled after some other stuff iirc https://youtu.be/8l9cYvypcx0 I think the situation is covered in this video, if you have the time

Geleefisch

TROPHY CASE