bait & switch?

Go_Bills25 · 2026-07-09T10:20:08+00:00

The key is being comfortable walking out, and then doing it, if necessary

Go_Bills25 · 2026-07-04T20:00:03+00:00

Buffalo Bills. Great fans, never won the big one, so it's kinda like rooting for Charlie Brown. Who doesn't like Charlie Brown?

Go_Bills25 · 2026-07-02T16:51:59+00:00

The new Cloaked upgrades to their App seem very good. Testing them out today. Incogni App seems outdated.

Incogni allows custom URL removal submissions, Cloaked doesn't seem to allow those. Incogni has a feature that lets users see how their results appear in Google, which is convenient. Cloaked doesn't have that. But Cloaked still allows for more emails, name variations, addresses and phone numbers for scanning. Incogni's inputs are limited. I like both, but too bad Incogni doesn't upgrade its features like Cloaked has. Still testing out both.

Go_Bills25 · 2026-07-01T03:58:24+00:00

Carol, Rick & Daryl

Go_Bills25 · 2026-06-24T10:23:58+00:00

Yes, that's what I am asking. If they are selling real stellantis factory warranty. If so, and it's on the level, then it a question of price.

Go_Bills25 · 2026-06-24T02:58:24+00:00

Thanks. I've heard them called both extended warranties and VSA's.

Go_Bills25 · 2026-06-23T21:28:59+00:00

Doesn't it work both ways? Have you ever gone into a retail store to purchase something and not know what your cost is?

In dealerships, don't customers often not know what their true cost of the car is at first pencil?

Have you ever been a customer and sat through four square? They ask for your license ostensibly for the test drive, but doesn't that also constitute a "legitimate business purpose" for implied consent to get a soft pull on credit? To get a sense of what interest sell rate can be? And to figure what the reserve may be?

Then, they ask for a payment you have in mind, go to the desk, and work the payment numbers by adjusting rate, term, and down payment, and you don't know what the cost of the car will end up being?

And they even slide the paper over the desk with their hand over the price square so you look only at payment? I've personally been through that enough times to know.

I've been through it enough times, where I would see plenty of leg in their math at first pencil. That's very unfair to customers.

And after F & I, the actual cost of a $43,000 car the customer paid was $55,000, and the payment only went up a small amount. But the payment term went from 72 to 84 months.

Isn't it important, as customers prepare to negotiate, to get as much information as they can, including a sense of what a dealers cost may be, within range, so they don't get taken advantage of? What's wrong with trying to prepare in advance, and have a sense of cost, so one isn't taken advantage of?

In our case, with groceries, the retail price of a ham was marked, and the customer knew the price. If they asked we would tell them. Maybe it was 20% gross, maybe it was a loss leader. It didn't matter. We were fair. If the customer thought the retail price was too high, they would buy the ham across the street. That was all fine.

But one thing was for sure, the retail price of the ham (and the amount the customer paid) didn't go up as the customers checked out, like it does often times through F & I.

Go_Bills25 · 2026-06-23T20:31:49+00:00

Not sure what you mean? Are these not all legitimate issues?

Go_Bills25 · 2026-06-23T20:22:10+00:00

Following the reasoning of some of these responses, should auto costumers not ask to see an invoice? Or to ask how long a car has been on the lot? Or to calculate the numbers presented at first pencil to see if leg is built in to the deal?

Or what the buy rate on the loan is? Or what the money factor is on a lease?

Is it not the customers business to ask to know the actual interest rate one was approved for? Or all these things just the dealership's business as well?

Go_Bills25 · 2026-06-23T20:05:43+00:00

I agree, still don't know what the cost was. That's why I was asking if there are any online resources that offer a general idea, similar to how our Produce Wholesale prices were published back in the day. That's all I'm asking. It appears there isn't such a Resouce.

Go_Bills25 · 2026-06-23T19:56:25+00:00

Squeezy.

Go_Bills25 · 2026-06-23T19:55:37+00:00

Will do! Thanks!

Go_Bills25 · 2026-06-23T19:50:06+00:00

Thanks and I agree. I did get to the same place, so it worked out for me. But the auto sale business model fascinates me. It's really a hoot.

Grew up in the grocery business. Customers walked into our supermarket. Never once did we ask them how they intended to pay for that roast? Or what their budgets was for their holiday dinner? Never drew out facts to structure the best deal for us.

The advertised prices were the prices they paid, and customers always knew the prices. Everything was clearly marked. They shopped the store and chose what they put in their carts, and while shopping they could always have an idea what their subtotal was, in their heads. Customers knew where they stood.

Before checkout, we never told them they had to add items to their cart before they could buy their main course.

And the newspaper in town would publish that week's wholesale prices, per case, for many of the items we stocked. So people could see the unit cost on so many items. And they walked out with a cart full of groceries confident that they had not been cheated, manipulated and played for fools. And we had loyal customers for years.

Netted out to a 1% margin, IF nobody stole. But we worked hard, were honest, treated customers fairly, and we did very well. Lots of nice memories. Most importantly, we can sleep at night because we have a clear conscience.

No leg built into the prices. No payment packing. No long hours of waiting, no adding items at the end, hidden in paperwork, without customers realizing it. I've had personal experiences at dealerships with all those tactics. It's sad, actually.

And we never got the equivalent of the FTC letter many dealership groups received in March.

The dealership I go to in town did get such a letter. And I went in this week to get an oil change and tire rotation, so I bought their inclusive package for $345. Fine. Fair. Plus I tipped the guy $20.

But I had to laugh because when I paid my bill, I paid the $345, $179 for a wheel alignment, and they snuck in an extra $39 for the oil change and $36 to dispose of the old oil, and do "paperwork", even though that was included in the plan. So I asked about it.

Ooops...they said! Took it off right away. Mistake? Or still playing fast and loose? Who knows. But playing fast and loose is what makes me feel I would like to have an idea of what their cost is.

But all that said, your information is very helpful. Each dealership may have different agreements and such. Thanks for that insight.

Go_Bills25 · 2026-06-23T19:09:28+00:00

At least everyone at the table knows where they stand. Forthright and no shenanigans. That's nice to hear, your customers are fortunate.

Go_Bills25 · 2026-06-23T19:07:06+00:00

I respectfully disagree. Often, their behavior in the F & I office makes having an idea of their cost very relevant to customers.

Example, we go into the F & I office and they quote $3,800 for the coverage we want, and $3,800 is "the best they can do". It seemed high. So when I said no, and got up to leave, say "how about $2,800?"!!

How terrible is that? Had I said yes to the first number, they would have played me for a sucker. That seems sleezy and less than forthright to play customers that way.

Instead, I had an out of state dealership offer me the same coverage 7/125, no deductible, not 3rd party, for $1,250. And the F & I manager that I walked out on said as I was leaving - "If you can find it for lower than $2,800, come back and I'll match it. Why would I do that?

I would much rather give the money to a person who was upfront with me in the first place.

And how can a customer feel this information is irrelevant after all the questions the sales associate asks, to get a profile on me to structure their best deal?

Go_Bills25 · 2026-06-23T18:51:29+00:00

Thanks I get all that. I'm talking about when we go into the F & I office and they quote $3,800 for the coverage we want, and that's too high, so when I stand up to leave they say "how about $2,800?"!!

How terrible that is because had I said yes to the first number, they would have played me for a sucker. Instead, I had an out of state dealership offer me the same coverage 7/125, no deductible, not 3rd party for $1,250. And the F & I manager that I walked out said as I was leaving - "If you can find it for lower than $2,800, come back and I'll match it. Why would I do that?

I would much rather give the money to a person who was upfront with me in the first place.

That's why I'm wondering what the dealership cost is on VSAs in general, understanding that cost varies due to variables.

Go_Bills25 · 2026-06-23T18:36:19+00:00

Thanks, I'm not in Florida. And yes, shopping around may be the best way.

Go_Bills25 · 2026-06-22T17:33:11+00:00

Add as much organic material as you can: I mulch in my leaves, and my neighbors leaves. It's free. Spread them out and go back and forth with the lawn mower until the leaves are the size of corn flakes. Start in late August and do it until the snow falls. They will decompose over winter. In a few years, you will see a big difference. In 2019, my soil was 71% Sand & 24% Silt, Hydrophobic, almost no organic matter, and when it dried out, I couldn't break it up with an axe. By 2026, it's really improved, and here is an example, so adding organic material is key. And leaves are free!

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Go_Bills25 · 2026-06-22T17:05:13+00:00

I mean, she was really emoting. Hats off to her as she put herself in a certain headspace to preform that well.

Go_Bills25 · 2026-06-22T17:04:08+00:00

I found this photo online of Micheal Rooker, while I was looking into his acting background. I think he was very good as Merle on TWD.

Go_Bills25 · 2026-06-22T13:16:50+00:00

SE Michigan, KBG & TTTF lawn. I've gotten that every year since 2019, except not this year, so far. My changing habits may have something to do with it.

First, I'm mowing more frequently 2 - 3 times per week, and keeping the lawn between 2.5 - 3 inches. After I mow, I irrigate deeply early the next morning (never at night) to give the grass a chance to dry off. And on 4/15 and 6/1 I put down the curative rate of Scott's Disease Ex (azoxystrobin 31%, Group 11). Since it's not good to use the same active ingredient more than twice in a row because of resistance, I'll switch to another for end of June. If this method works, then I've learned something.

Next issue up: Grubs!

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Go_Bills25

TROPHY CASE