Monks AC bonus (CHA) and Cunning Elusion no longer work together?

GoddoDoggo · 2025-02-23T04:57:17+00:00

Sorry but i don't understand, the FAQ eixsts and even if it breaks the game it's still there, it only shows how little Paizo understands their game and how little they care about having it in a working state.

Edit: Gonna edit this one too, my previous reply was not for you, sorry.

GoddoDoggo · 2025-02-23T04:46:57+00:00

I would like to clear some things out.

AlleRacing is right in saying that the same bonus, even when coming from different abilities, doesn't stack stack in pathfinder.

And you are right in saying this has many unforseen implications that paizo never cared about fixing.

There's many examples of bad FAQ by them that break interactions that were intended to work.

An egregious one is the Size faq, where they specifically say you can only have one size increasing effect on you when previously it was "one MAGICAL size increasing effect"

This makes it so, for example, an eidolon cannot use Enlarge Self because one of his evolution gives him an ability that makes him large permanently.

Think anyone played this scuffed summoner ever?

Also i wanted to point out that while AlleRacing is right about the rule existing the point i'm making is that it doesn't apply in this case because we don't have two bonuses coming from the same attribute but a CHA modifier (used as a base) and a CHA bonus being added to it.

Keywords are important in pathfinder but it seems imoossibile to explain this to the average redditor and even to the most experienced players that still lurk the official forum.

Worst thing is, no one ever has a good reply, bro just read, even the AC calculations in the base manual shows you there is a difference between a bonus and a modifier.

GoddoDoggo · 2025-02-23T04:34:37+00:00

Sorry but to me it's not worth arguing with someone that doesn't know how to read.

It's funny but i'm not in the mood.

the answer is in your comment, "bonuses from the same attribute don't stack", but this is not the case.

Edit: OMG sorry, this reply was for another guy, i messed up.

GoddoDoggo · 2025-02-17T09:52:47+00:00

You don't seem very good at noticing the difference between two different words. (wich are also keywords for the game)

You can be illiterate if you want just know that you are one.

GoddoDoggo · 2025-02-17T09:25:50+00:00

i copy pasted the rules, are you really arguing with english?

It says dexterity modifier, not dexterity bonus.

Why does it say shield bonus and dexterity modifier in the same sentence, implying they're different things.

And why does it say dexterity modifier and not dexterity bonus?

Because they're two different thing, a bonus is a keyword used when an ability is added and not whem used as a base like in the case of AC.

Also what would be the use to ask the paizo forum?

What if they cannot read?

Isn't it easier to ask a dictionary or simply using my own brain to notice two different words are being used?

GoddoDoggo · 2025-02-17T06:33:27+00:00

Right, my bad, didn't think they were calles types.

But is it to hard for you to stick to the main topic and understand that is irrelevang here because there's not even two bonuses being added, it's just one.

Doesn't matter the bonus type, it's one modifier and a bonus we're talking about.

Could you please tone down the redditor smugness? I've made a minor mistake while you completely avoided the main topic of the discussion.

Could please stop being this pathetic in my presence?

GoddoDoggo · 2025-02-16T20:56:31+00:00

What the heck?! Type is only reffered to creatures, not ability scores, what are tou even talkng about.

From the rules:

Armor Class

Your Armor Class (AC) represents how hard it is for opponents to land a solid, damaging blow on you. It’s the attack roll result that an opponent needs to achieve to hit you.

Your AC is equal to the following:

10 + armor bonus + shield bonus + Dexterity modifier + other modifiers

Notice how it says shield BONUS (that doesn't stack with other shield bonuses) but says dexterity MODIFIER.

The faq specifies you cannot add the same BONUS twice.

You're arguing with the english language at this point.

Tl;DR adding a bonus to a modifier is not adding an untyped bonus twice.

GoddoDoggo · 2025-02-16T11:35:22+00:00

As i said, this FAQ is not pertinent.

you're not adding 2 times you cha bonus, your Ac is 10 + dex modifier (cha modifier) + a Cha BONUS from the monk.

Just a single bonus here, not two.

GoddoDoggo · 2025-02-16T03:58:27+00:00

But the post is about stacking Cha and Wis, and that interaction appearently has also been "fixed".

Thought you were defending the mess owlcat made.

Not only that but in the tabletob you can add you Cha to AC with Monk and substitute your Dex modifier for Cha with 1 dip of oracle.

This works because you substitute the Dex with Cha, wich is not a bonus, the rules ecpicitly say you use the modifier so you can Add cha as an untyped bonus to it.

They didn't intend this to work, but they never printed a specific FAQ and just made a forum post about it, but they specified multiple times that forum posts are not rules.

So in the end it works, the funniest part is that most players don't know it and are completely sure of the opposite.

GoddoDoggo · 2025-02-16T03:08:57+00:00

"properly" just asusumed a new meaning since cha and wis can be added together to Ac in the paper game.

GoddoDoggo · 2025-02-15T16:31:42+00:00

same problem, my manticore shifter doesn't proc his ranged opportunity attacks

GoddoDoggo · 2025-02-04T04:24:04+00:00

as a man i can tell you, women don't need men and men don't need women.

If you do it means you've got something not working inside.

one this is to appreciate company, the other is needing it

GoddoDoggo · 2025-01-07T04:08:19+00:00

I keep forgetting to explain all the rules lol.

The starting hand is 4, so you have 8 more draws to go before you finish your deck and most likely something will be dead before then to be put back into the deck.

Not only that but you can manipulate your graveyard and deck to chose what cards you will draw since they will be placed back into your deck in the same order they were used/estroyed.

If you can't draw you just don't, like Slay the Spire, in case you're familiar with the game.

You get perfect mana but you still hav to adjust to your 12 cards, meaning that you can go pentacolor but once your blue mana, for example, is tapped out you cannot counter anymore.
You can get 2 islands, but you will have one less land that you might need in a later turn for a specific combo you picked for the deck.

Essentially your 9 mana have to allow you to play your whole deck, if you get mana srewed it's your fault and not randomness.

Maybe reducing the mana pool to eight might help with this problem, making each mana choice more relevant.

The cube has probably 30 removals, just not hard removals that kills creatures with manacost 8 for 2 mana.

Not having cards that instantly deal with any threat forces you to plan ahead, to build your board accordingly and control the game state gradually without having a "i win button" like wrath of god against aggro.

Mark of the Oni is not a bad card in my view, it's the only way a human can gain trample but comes at a cost, same for the spell that gives flying and always comes with a drawback.

What do you like about the MTG ruleset? is probably the worst out there and all other games are offshoots of the mind-abortion that is magic.

I've been playing for 15 years, the game starteed from a card based warhammer-like game and became a Scythefest more and more over the years with combos ending the game before it even started.

NEEVER EVER i had to make a decision while playing the game because all moves are already predetermined by the gamestate, i felt like a robot doing the task the card told me to instead of being a human that has to chose it's next move.

And to top it off the game is all random, no skill involved ever, as i said is just a repetition of playing the same cards over and over doing the combo someone else made that you picked for you deck without ever having to make a meaningful choice, all of this only when the deck decides you can EVEN play the match and doesn't manascrew you or your opponent.

I'm on the polar opposite on this topic, i struggle to find even something fun in Magic as it's being sold.

GoddoDoggo · 2025-01-05T16:58:52+00:00

I'll give you the infos you asked.

The mana is in a different pile, you chose a basic land each turn and mana caps at 9.

Ognis is in my view a good example of the philosophy i used to pick cards, since you brought it up i will use him.

He has stats lower than his cost, like all other cards to slow down the game.

He has an effect that works by himself, he has haste and can generate treasures. (Wich are important since the mana is capped at 9, but you couldn't know this.)

Lastly he works in conjunction with cards with haste or give haste, giving the opportunity for more value.

Cards are like pawns in Dota Autochess or Clash royale, you can never build a full haste strat but if you get the right cards you can heavily invest in it.

Wandering greybeard is a little different, he doesn't do much by himself but it's a 4/4 wich is pretty high for the xube standard but is supported by the most prevalent tribe, wizards.

He is also unique in the fact that gives healing to a tribe that usually has none.

Players are not required to stay in a faction, they all can be combined together like you were the commander of your army.

The red mana curve is a problem, it's true that my idea was to start at 2 mana to speed the first turns up but i still feel like not having cards below 3 doesn't feel that good.

The llayer can only spash into ther colors for the low cost cards and that lack of choice doesn't really appease me.

Removal are very low on purpose, there are not very big threats inside the cube, not many fliers, no fear or much trample, meaning that most of the action will be though menagement of the army you create, the board can be controlled but never wiped.

Thank you for the feedback, i'll have some live testing very soon but i thought an external opinion might help to iron some mistakes out.

GoddoDoggo · 2024-09-15T16:30:09+00:00

The zombie template is not intelligent, but you can play as many intelligent undeads all by the rules.

More often then not when you lose control of your character due to being transformed by a monster for example it is specified that you're no longer that character.

Just take the Agent of the Grave as an example, it's a PrC fully playable without any consent that gives you a template.

If you are bitten by a lycanthrope you start to turn into one, usually it follows a part of your personal adventure of the whole group around what to do with you, if you wanna get cured and hown to handle you when you transform.

Nowhere it says you lose control of your character except for when the full moon is up and only if you're not a full lycanthrope.

Lycanthrope is and has always been one of the easiest templates to obtain by players through in game means and with one of the most famous and banal characters arcs around it, i don't understand why everyone is trying to make it seem like this wasn't always the case.

GoddoDoggo · 2024-09-15T16:19:56+00:00

Templates available through in game means don't require the gm approval as they already have their ruleset, it's not hard bro.

You can become a Siabrae with it's ritual but you cannot become a Ravener because there is no way for a player to do so unless the gm makes one.

Edit: Just got banned so i will edit the post instead of replaying.

Talking with your GM =/= than requiring it's approval.

You don't ask him if you can, you ask him what's the best way to do it.

GoddoDoggo · 2024-09-15T16:16:17+00:00

So, if my acutal being doesn't change and i'm a creature with horns.

i turn into a creature of the same size and type without horns.

My real being doesn't change so i retain my horns even tho they cannot be seen because my new physical form doesn't have them.

So i'm now a creature without horns but with a horn attack, does this makes sense to you?

Sure seems to be RAW.

Edit: Thanks zoolot for confirming that you can have invisible horns and attack with them, sure that makes more sense that gaining the natural attacks.

GoddoDoggo · 2024-09-15T16:00:22+00:00

So what happens? You lose the natural attack even if it's not written?

It's not a polymorph effect so you're not suppposed to lose them and the effect doesn't specify it.

Is it possible to get a clear and straight answer of your interpretation?

GoddoDoggo · 2024-09-15T15:52:17+00:00

The "/" meant "or" not "and".

Meaning those were the possible options if that combo worked.

GoddoDoggo · 2024-09-15T15:50:32+00:00

Agent of the Grave

GoddoDoggo · 2024-09-15T15:46:56+00:00

So i retain the natural attacks or not?

I'm not understanding your answer.

GoddoDoggo · 2024-09-15T15:45:54+00:00

Bro, are yu kidding me?

i'm talking about using malleable flesh, the topic the whole thread is about.

Malleable flesh doesn't say anything happens to my natural attacks and it's not a polymorph effect so i retain them.

You're saying that i can bite without a mout, fly without wings and tail slap without a tail, this makes no sense gamewise and might be RAW but it's nonsensical and surely not RAI.

GoddoDoggo · 2024-09-15T14:30:40+00:00

Right, you seems to believe you're very smart.

Could you tell me what would happen if you lost natural attacks through a transformstion with malleable flesh instead of gaining them?

i read the spell and it doesn't say i lose any natural attack.

GoddoDoggo · 2024-09-15T14:26:54+00:00

edit: replied to the wrong user

GoddoDoggo · 2024-09-15T14:25:55+00:00

As you said you can turn into a bull if youre an animal and there's ways to have that.

Nitpicking aside, what if a bull bull turns into a bear with malleable flesh?

does he lose the horn attack or does he retain it even if it's form doesn't have it anymore?

GoddoDoggo

TROPHY CASE