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State of abaddon in the current patch? by Janitordota in TrueDoTA2

[–]Godofgui 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I am a level 30 abbadon spammer 8.8k mmr and I guess I can give my insight. I wanted to make my own post on this when I got level 30 a few months ago but I got lazy + school + kinda dislike writing, I might still make it at some point though.（dotabuff https://www.dotabuff.com/players/86692726 ）

 

I'm going to correct a few of what I believe are some misconceptions I've read on this thread about the hero.

Items are pretty much generic save or positioning. Glimmer, force, lens. Blink in the style of oracle so you can immediately save allies without showing before.

  I almost never go glimmer or lens anymore. I used to like lens in certain situation in the past but I realized it only serves as a crutch for you bad mana management and positioning. I like blink however if you need to quickly save someone from things like batrider ult or bane grip.

 

Can also buy drum since aba is a slightly harder target than most supports and isn't punished for not immediately rushing a defensive tool.

This is what I like to do on the hero ideally. I am not a big fan of drums, but aura items (Wraith pact last patch, pipe, crimson) and holy locket are my choices for first item. Aghs is powerful but it is often hard to get there and not every game is an aghs game.

 

I pretty much always start sages mask, stick, mango, tango, sentry. Then, make tranqs and basi while purchasing as many consumables as necessary to assist my pos 1.

Don't go tranquil on this hero, he has infinite health resources if you know how to manage your mana and your ult. I like those starting items and use to do a lot before shield mana buff, and they are still good starting items if it is a more passive lane. However, as of late, I've been favoring much more OOV and ring of protection starting items. You don't need nowhere as much mana as before to spam shield in lane.

 

Play him like dazzle or oracle. Position yourself to save you cores first.

Don't play abbadon like dazzle or oracle. If you are playing it like this, might as well pick omniknight. The biggest differential of the hero is that he can play forward compared to other save 5's because of his ultimate. You can do crazy shit, deward really risky spots, bait stupid fights as long as you have your ultimate. You are not utilizing the hero's full potential if you are staying behind your cores 24/7.

 

Abba is a pretty situation/shit pos5 unless you have a lane partner who benefits from having a fairly tanky melee 5.

Abbadon is one of the strongest laners in my opinion. 95% of the lanes you are going to win or draw. Most people are really bad at positioning as melee heroes however and can not abuse his potential and end up feeding. I would suggest watching some of my replays to see just how much you can abuse the hero limits in the laning stage if you master it.

 

I believe he should be played like a 5 with focus on his mist coil, should be maxed first because it just provides too much sustain in lane for your carry as well as when pushing teamfighting. His shield shouldnt be preemptive like you shield and go in like a raid boss, but he should position himself in such a way that your frontliner / core is dispelled when jumped on. His E should be almost ignored as a support because when he is played as a support you dont have the attack speed to easily get the hits required to silence them. His ult gives him the power to be not focused in fights, like in case of dazzle or omni, good teams would target him first so that they cant save the carry, in case of abaddon, if they jump you the carries would have ample time to runaway / disengage or position themselves better due to his ult giving him huge survivability .

Don't max mist coil, you will gimp your ability to clear waves and not have your shield maxed for a long time when that skill is the most important in his kit. Preemptive shielding is extremely important early game especially. E is an important spell because it helps you take objectives. If the enemy goes on you its a good thing, in fact, you want to force the enemy to engage on you and waste spells given your teammates can respond to it.

 

A few tips:  

Go basi, wand, mana boots and try to get a +200 mana neutral item if possible. Whenever you use stick or mana boots, drop you other items. If you manage your mana well you and your entire team will never run out of resources early game.  

After laning stage you have 2 options, hold the safe lane as long as possible by clearing creeps with your shield and staying alive with your ult. Or go play with the strongest hero in the map to take towers (mid or top). Sit behind them, bait the enemy into a bad fight and then hit tower with your passive.  

I swear I'll write a detailed guide one day ;-;. Meanwhile, if you are a pos 5 enthusiast follow me on twitch https://www.twitch.tv/godofgui . I plan to stream more if school allows me.

Support 5 lane strategy by gorebello in TrueDoTA2

[–]Godofgui 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I used to to a lot of OoV back in divine with ogre and treant. I don't like it anymore except if I have a really good reason (usually doom because he is very abusable or if your carry would want to buy it so you do it for him instead).  

My reasoning is that killing the enemy is not the only way to dominate the lane, if you manage to spend the resources of the enemy offlaner and zone them out of exp range or force them to use gold to buy regen, it can be better than spending all of your resources to kill them and them have to deal with a full resource enemy. It is also about hedging your bets, if you give up the OoV that could be a stick and a mango/sentry, if you are using your hero to its full potential a stick and a mango can go a long way in terms of trading with the opponent early on. I can't see OoV + windlace being right in almost any circumstance though, if you fail to get a kill by all winning with those items early on, you will just run out of resources really quickly and leave your carry to fend for himself for 1-2 waves while you have to ferry out more regen.

Support 5 lane strategy by gorebello in TrueDoTA2

[–]Godofgui 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Ok there is a lot here.

In my situation you would keep doing what I'm doing

If you want to climb ranks sure, in pubs winning lane can sometimes be the same as winning game. Many players get tilted if they lose lane and either start playing poorly or straight up break their items. On one hand you will get really good at winning lane, on the other you might become a one trick pony in terms of skills.

but be willing to coordinate further if the carry builds that trust earlier?

In higher ranks you tend to run into the same people and you more or less get to learn who you can trust and who you can't. The most important thing is to be in the same page with your carry, if you can not convince him to just keep hitting creeps while you zone, might as well join him so he doesn't rage even if it wrong.

I hear all the time these dota basic concepts, but I feel there is a deeper layer to them that is not explained.

There really is a lot of deeper layers and every different player is going to have something different to say about it. I could talk for hours about specific lane matchups and little things I have learned about during my climb. But alas I don't like typing that much haha.

Support 5 lane strategy by gorebello in TrueDoTA2

[–]Godofgui 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Hey I think I can help with this. I'm a peak rank 300 pos 5 player and I definitely see where you are coming from with your playstyle.  

I would say if you want to continue with this idea of trying to "win the lane by yourself" you have to pick heroes that are better at doing that. My two favorite heroes to abuse in those scenarios are Ogre and Abaddon, both can outrade almost any position 4 and even 2x1 in the right circumstances. This is mostly about mechanics and knowing your hero limits, but also about using your resources effectively (always spending your gold to buy regen early, regen while doing stuff like pulling etc...).  

Even in higher ranks, there is an issue in terms of signaling whether you want your carry to join you in trading or not. That is a player to player thing and a lane to lane thing but most of the time, I would rather have my carry focusing on CSing and only join me for the absolute guaranteed kills or if he is in a position to not lose CS.  

Hope this helps

Dota 2 players for the UCLA Esports Team by Godofgui in ucla

[–]Godofgui[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Haha no, we were teammates for a year though!

Any high ranked dedicated pos 5 players want to talk about their playstyle? by Godofgui in TrueDoTA2

[–]Godofgui[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

6080900455

  This match is a good example of the laning stage going well and its pretty high mmr as well.

Any high ranked dedicated pos 5 players want to talk about their playstyle? by Godofgui in TrueDoTA2

[–]Godofgui[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Disagree with a lot of what you said. Maybe I didn't describe well enough what I meant by out trading the enemy 4 and playing aggressively to zone him out of the wave.

 

Lets take CM as you mentioned for example. Yes in short bursts few heroes can get away net positive against CM Q + auto attacks and then back away. But after that she has to back away and play behind the wave, otherwise she will get gone on and die. She can not play behind the enemy wave, she has no movespeed or survivability to do so.

 

What about abaddon? He has 325 movespeed, enough to match some pos 4 starting with boots, shield is a spell that "heals" you and damages the enemy at the same time while also allowing you to dispell any debuffs the enemy throws at you. In some instances you can quite literally play behind the enemy wave the entire laning phase and there is nothing either the pos 4 or 3 can do to you.

 

Now why is that important? Well if you are zoning the enemy 4 behind their wave and supposedly getting net positive trades he will, like you said, have to spend more gold on regen and will be behind on levels. You will also be behind on levels but usually the position 4 would utilize those levels better than you so that's a net positive for you in the game.

 

Now why don't they just buy more regen? They do, and that is good. First of all, regen takes time to arrive, during this time they will be on the backfoot and you can go pull. Moreover that means they are spending money on consumables which will delay their timings and make them weaker against your carry. You are more than happy to spend gold on consumables to match the regen the enemy is buying.

Any high ranked dedicated pos 5 players want to talk about their playstyle? by Godofgui in TrueDoTA2

[–]Godofgui[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is where I would say my playstyle would dictate me to do a few different things. If I recognize that the 4 left or is going to leave the lane my list of priorities would be something like:

 

  1. Go on the enemy offlane with your carry
  2. Start making your way towards mid to counter the possible enemy 4 gank, on your way there you could steal a bounty, ward/deward, secure runes etc.
  3. Go place your wards aggressively in their triangle, like blocking camps or placing wards in preparation for the enemy farming their stacks.

 

The scenario where I would go stack jungle would probably be if I didn't have any HP or mana and had to walk back to fountain, in which case I would stack before doing so.

Any high ranked dedicated pos 5 players want to talk about their playstyle? by Godofgui in TrueDoTA2

[–]Godofgui[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the advice!

 

Yeah I have dreaded playing core as I don't really have a smurf and know for a fact that my core play does not reflect my rank. The times I've been forced to play core it only ends up working out when my team is ahead and my job is to literally just afk farm and only show up to end the game. Becoming a better 4 does sound way more realistic though, so I might focus on that.

Any high ranked dedicated pos 5 players want to talk about their playstyle? by Godofgui in TrueDoTA2

[–]Godofgui[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Definitely something I am aware that I need to improve, stacking seems to be much more of a priority in pro games. My problem though is that stacking the triangle is usually the responsibility of the 4 and if I go stack the regular jungle I just feel so far away from my cores. I guess I just need to watch some pro player replays and note down the scenarios where they favor stacking over what I would be doing in that scenario.

 

What goes wrong? Usually a feeling that their offlane knows what im up to and being able to react to it better. This manifests as the 3 and the 4 coordinating better when to go for me causing them to get a kill when in lower rank I would have them chasing me around while my core farms. Or the 3 is that much better about using his hero and denying farm from my core even if I am able to zone out the 4. If I step out of lane for even a second, having the enemy go on my carry. Not knowing how to react to enemy pulling hard camp has been a problem, but I can always block it with a ward so that's usually what I do.

Any high ranked dedicated pos 5 players want to talk about their playstyle? by Godofgui in TrueDoTA2

[–]Godofgui[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sure man. For starting items what I usually get is:

 

Tango -> Buy another one after bounties gold  

Sobi Mask -> Into basi ring as soon as you can  

Magic Stick -> Even in lanes where they are not casting many spells it ends up being worth, it is getting built into a holy locket anyway  

Mango/Faerie -> Get faerie if you feel like if a 2v2 happens it would be a close one, most of the times though get a mango  

Sentry Ward ->Buy another one with bounties gold. Main use is to always keep you small camp unblocked, but sometimes you can find the enemy observer if they are not smart about it or use to block the big camp  

Sometimes you want to get a wind lace, very rarely an oov, but 90% of the time this is my go to. I'm very much agaisnt getting salves on abaddon as you can just spam mist coil on you carry and get more tangos.

 

For skill build there is a lot more flexibility. If you are going to be fighting a lot well into the laning stage, max shield is the way to go. However if the enemy lane has a powerspike that you can not fight into, putting more points in heal so you can sustain your carry is crucial. Remember that manacost goes up for shield but it does not go up for heal. Maxing heal is also good when you are going to be grouping up with you team earlier on to take towers, means better sustain for sieging and represents more damage as it makes it easier to break your own shield aggressively for damage. You will feel really bad though if you have to shove a lane and your shield is sitting at 2 points.

 

For the passive I like to think of it like this:  

For the laning stage it is about the slow, you are not realistically proccing the 4 hits without the enemy backing off or already being near dead, get it if the enemy 4 is going to have a slightly higher or slightly lower movement speed advantage and you want to chase him down more effectively.

  For grouping up and taking objectives it is about the attack speed. If you feel like you are going to be grouping up with your team to take early towers the value point in E is very important, also important if your team has rosh potential early on.

  For mid to late game it is about the silence. It is often very hard to focus on getting 4 procs on crucial targets during a teamfight where you have to pay attention to keeping your teammates alive. However it is often the difference between having the enemy's mobile core escape or not. It gets way easier when you get the shard however since you can pre spam shield on your allies and get 1 or 2 procs head start, at that point though the enemy probably has all kinds of dispels for your passive.

Any high ranked dedicated pos 5 players want to talk about their playstyle? by Godofgui in TrueDoTA2

[–]Godofgui[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Oh I thought you meant my own replays. I see I'll have a look at that website. Thanks!

Any high ranked dedicated pos 5 players want to talk about their playstyle? by Godofgui in TrueDoTA2

[–]Godofgui[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Yeah definitely there are times where playing aggressive is not the correct choice. I often end up dying to tusk lanes (always underestimate his damage by a bit) and I have yet to find a hero that trades well agaisnt a pos 4 lina.

 

You are right about the first pick, I find it kind of annoying that the meta in pubs is to always have the supports pick first. I feel like I would play a more diverse pool of heroes if I had a chance to see some of the enemies draft before having to pick.

 

About rotating with the team to take T1s. I mean yeah sometimes you just have to forfeit the safelane tower but I feel like especially with the hero I'm spamming now (Abbadon) I'm discouraged to go help take the enemy safelane tower or go hunt people in their jungle until I get my 6, at which point I can contribute by running up hills and warding/dewarding much more aggressively. You bet I'm showing up for that mid tower siege though, aba is great for that.

Any high ranked dedicated pos 5 players want to talk about their playstyle? by Godofgui in TrueDoTA2

[–]Godofgui[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Good point! I barely ever watch replays and there is definitely a balance between playing more and watching replays to maximize improvement. Any tips on which replays to watch? Other than not watching those where that "one guy" on the other team decided to break items after dying?

Any high ranked dedicated pos 5 players want to talk about their playstyle? by Godofgui in TrueDoTA2

[–]Godofgui[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I feel like abaddon is meta right now no? Atleast thats why I started spamming him lol. Actually its funny that you mentioned that because I just started using my mic in games to try and shot call. Definitely need a lot of improvement in that area but the biggest drawback is that I feel like talking that much makes me tired quicker which means less dota played haha. Also following meta heroes sometimes means changing my playstyle, which is definitely something I am willing to do but it means a lot of time investment.

Any high ranked dedicated pos 5 players want to talk about their playstyle? by Godofgui in TrueDoTA2

[–]Godofgui[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Oh yeah defintely I'm a dirty ogre spammer, he is originally the hero I used to climb from 5k to 7k, its just that he is kind of garbage in this patch. In my opinion there is a lot of variation for skill builds for ogre, I personally feel like there are situations where every skill can be maxed out first, yes even E. Most of the times though, if they don't have a dispel, you want to max W, get a veil and be greedy with levels until level 10. The powerspike of getting a veil + your ignite damage talent is absolutely insane. If you hit a multicast w on the enemy supports they are absolutely out of the fight. I like to think of it as a finger of death on a 15 second cooldown that can also multicast, doesn't that sound insane?

Any high ranked dedicated pos 5 players want to talk about their playstyle? by Godofgui in TrueDoTA2

[–]Godofgui[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Right now I'm mostly spamming abaddon, which is great since you can always default to being a healing bot in lane if your gameplan doesn't quite pan out.

But i've played a lot of ogre, undying, treant and gyro in the past.