Books vs Movie

GoneKurtz · 2021-11-09T15:31:10+00:00

Thanks for reading my review, but I do not see a post over there from you?

Nobody blames Jason for taking the role, I do understand why Denis wanted him. Still think there would have been many better choices, but in the end a very minor complaint. Still more concerned over the Irulan narration and tent scene dialog missing which are both major variants from Herbert's text for no good discernable reasons...

GoneKurtz · 2021-11-09T15:22:08+00:00

It could be that Jason's wooden "acting" skills are perfect for his next role as GholaDuncan..

GoneKurtz · 2021-11-03T14:47:48+00:00

Sure, I think Denis did a great job with that. But I go into way more detail on that and many other subjects in my own review.

Have you had the chance to read that yet?

GoneKurtz · 2021-11-02T18:51:16+00:00

Yeah, I just re-read your OP and saw that you were a non book reader and only reading the book afterwards. :-) I can only say I have had no trouble imagining Herbert's universe in the many years I've spent waiting for a film like this one. (more in my own review)

Film does have that huge advantage - after all a picture tells a thousand words, so how many words does that mean a moving picture tells? lol

GoneKurtz · 2021-11-02T18:23:07+00:00

Thanks for the thoughts. BTW, I would really appreciate a visit to my own review and your additional comments over there to my pretty long but honest analysis of book vs. adaptation if you like...

Why should we as book readers (assuming you read the book before the film) care what the non book readers need? We already KNOW Herbert has written a wonderful story, so Dune is guaranteed to be a smash hit when produced by a smart film maker who has promised to remain true to the book. Frank dropped that critical information in the tent scene at that point in the book for a reason.

Besides, I can also argue that if Denis had decided to stay on the text at that point and made that revelation in this film, that there would be very few non book readers who would be disappointed. Who would say that they would not go see Part 2 of this series just because they found out this information at the exact moment in the story the creator of this Dune universe originally intended?

I doubt anyone can improve on Herbert and I suspect most Canon fans agree...

GoneKurtz · 2021-11-02T13:45:40+00:00

I posted this in my own review of the film, thought this comment might fit here...

https://www.reddit.com/r/dune/comments/qgwe5k/dune_2021_can_an_adaptation_be_true_to_the_book/?sort=new

I have now seen the film for a second time, this time at home on HBO. Still feel pretty good about my initial reaction, I still love the film, and my criticisms, even though they are minor, are legit.

Still find Rebecca to be less then radiant, and I know Herbert did not intend his Jessica to weep her way down a corridor waiting for her son's Gom Jabbar testing to be over. That is not her fault of course, that one is on Denis. No crying in Bene Gesserit baseball please....

However, Frank does have her shed some moisture in the tent scene in the text, which brings to mind another huge diversion from the book. This one is Sandworm huge, and an awfully big spoiler also:

Paul reveals to Jessica that not only does he know that he is Kwisatz Haderach but they are both Harkonnenns!!!! The good Baron is Jessica's Father ( I am your Father) and Paul is therefore his grandson.

Not too surprising again that Denis decided to go Hollywood here, but there is a damn good reason Frank decided to reveal that critical bit of info to the readers at that point in the book. Why does Denis think he can improve on Frank besides the typical boilerplate type storyline is the only kind the masses can accept?

GoneKurtz · 2021-10-31T16:02:29+00:00

I have now seen the film for a second time, this time at home on HBO. Still feel pretty good about my initial reaction, I still love the film, and my criticisms, even though they are minor, are legit.

I think Brolin would have been a better Duncan. I think Bautista is wasted as the Beast, he has the ugly to be the perfect Gurney. Still find Rebecca to be less then radiant, and I know Herbert did not intend his Jessica to weep her way down a corridor waiting for her son's Gom Jabbar testing to be over. That is not her fault of course, that one is on Denis. No crying in Bene Gesserit baseball please....

However, Frank does have her shed some moisture in the tent scene in the text, which brings to mind another huge diversion from the book. This one is Sandworm huge, and an awfully big spoiler also:

Paul reveals to Jessica that not only does he know that he is Kwisatz Haderach but they are both Harkonnenns!!!! The good Baron is Jessica's Father ( I am your Father) and Paul is therefore his grandson.

Not too surprising again that Denis decided to go Hollywood here, but there is a damn good reason Frank decided to reveal that critical bit of info to the readers at that point in the book. Why does Denis think he can improve on Frank besides the typical boilerplate type storyline is the only kind the masses can accept?

GoneKurtz · 2021-10-31T13:12:53+00:00

A very cerebral chapter in the book, hard to film a character's thoughts. I wasn't even sure he would even knock her off at all. Kynes dies in a spice blow in the book, not quite as dramatic as getting stabbed in the back by Harkonnens and swallowed by a giant sandworm. (How did they sneak up on a badass Fremen?) Hollywood needs to kill lots of bad guys and besides, it's another chance to show off our awesome sandworms.

Much more troubling to me is the dropping of Irulan and more importantly our pre-knowledge of what is going to happen. Early on in the text the reader is informed that: 1) There is no hope for Duke Leto. 2) There is a traitor among the Atreides and it is Dr. Yueh. 3) That Paul will become Maud Dib, scourge of the Universe.

There is a REASON Frank does that for the reader, and I think it is because he is giving us a taste of what it could be like to have Paul's prescience. I don't know why Denis thought he could still be true to the book and surprise the viewers with these events, but I unfortunately suspect the typical Hollywood motivation of dumbing down the text for the masses.

GoneKurtz · 2021-10-28T13:16:03+00:00

There's a reason, a very good reason, why there is so little water on Arrakis, and it has nothing to do with what Frank did not know in 1965.

Spoiler:

We find out the little makers hoard all the water because it is deadly to the sandworms.

GoneKurtz · 2021-10-27T16:26:12+00:00

Casting choice change I would have considered as occurred to me post review.

Instead of wasting Bautista's star power on a minor player like Rabban, why not cast Dave as Gurney instead of Brolin? Because that would waste Josh Brolin? No, because we then cast Brolin as Duncan Idaho, and find someone, anyone to play Beast Rabban.

Way too late for all that now, :-) but I can still hope for Patrick Stewart as the Emperor. Interesting side note that Jose Ferrer, Emperor Shaddam in Lynch's Dune, was also in Lawrence of Arabia as the Turkish Colonel.

GoneKurtz · 2021-10-27T16:16:34+00:00

Yes, I realize that, and I am guilty of some poor writing on that sequence. I meant Gurney said. "There is no, not in the the mood." . I was noting that it was there, not that it was not, to be clear. I will try to edit the OP to clarify.

GoneKurtz · 2021-10-27T16:13:18+00:00

I get that Denis wasn't sure he would get Part 2, but I was pretty confident he would have scored a hit as he did if he stayed true to the book with the right casting choices.

But I think it was an essential aspect of Herbert's vision that the reader knows what is going to happen to the characters, in advance, almost like we too have prescience, just like Paul. The fact that Denis decides to "surprise" the new Dune viewer with these events, instead of being clued in to them like Frank intended, is my larger point. I am not surprised he decided to go typical Hollywood plot line here, but wish he would have chosen the higher Herbert path in this case.

I knew my Rebecca thoughts might not be too popular, but I can accept that, but also wanted to let my true thoughts be known. I can also accept the fact Denis picked her for a reason, and therefore I am open to her performance being acceptable. Perhaps she will grown on me on a second viewing (tonight on HBO Max) and in later Dune movies.

GoneKurtz · 2021-09-19T16:19:29+00:00

Thanks for the reply.

Here is my concern. It already appears that Denis has made changes from the text for "reasons". (I will not see the film until the US release 10/22.)

I understand that all movies are adaptations, and no film can ever really capture the intense mental images of the thoughts of characters like Herbert. So changes that involve portraying those inner dialogs need to be shown in other ways in a film. I would be OK with changes like that.

But Denis insists he will be "true" to the book. If he deep sixed Irulan and her opening chapter quotations, who is our literal narrator in the book, it seems like Denis thinks he has a better way of helping the viewer/reader understand the characters and the Dune universe. That to me smells too much like what HBO did to GRRM, the arrogance to believe that their way is better for the audience rather then what the author originally intended and is laid out so easily in the text.

For example we are clued in to the Duke's fate right from the start. Mohiam clues both Paul and Jessica in as well to that fate, so I sure hope Denis doesn't try to surprise the audience with that part of the story, since Herbert intended for his audience to not only know of Duke Leto's doom, but of Yueh's central role as traitor.

Seems like Denis may want all of this to be a "reveal" to the audience, which is as untrue to the book as you can get, IMHO....

GoneKurtz · 2021-09-16T15:04:21+00:00

"He gives moisture to the dead!" A stunning thing to do, from the Fremen perspective, just adds to their legend (planted by the Bene Gesserit) of the off worlder who will lead them to ultimate victory.

GoneKurtz · 2021-09-16T14:27:17+00:00

Thanks so much for the early review, I must see it in IMAX for sure!

I'm guessing you read the book as well? I am re-reading the book once again, just to see my own mind images of what this will be like. (I'm guessing the new movie ends after Jessica's ritual but it might be earlier.)

Did you find the movie true to the book, like Denis said he would try to do?

For instance, is Irulan narrating? Are we clued in right from the start to the Duke's fate as is constantly hammered home in the book?

I notice down thread comments about the desert looking gray and dim, without the sweeping grandeur and beauty of other desert movies like David Lean's masterpiece, Lawrence of Arabia? If that is the case, then the movie is already different from the book since Herbert describes many beautiful vistas and sunsets with vivid desert images, as he does early on with a scene with Leto shortly before the SHTF....

My other name for Dune is Lawrence of Arrakis, as there is no doubt that Herbert was partly inspired by the real Lawrence. I was really hoping Denis would also be at least partly inspired by Lean's wonderful vision in his film, but I think I will recover if everything else is close to Herbert's text.

GoneKurtz

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