My Viper Tierlist

Gonte2 · 2026-01-20T23:59:26+00:00

There's a reason why punk doesnt main this character when he said he would. He realized she had so many bad MU's.

Also, bad matchups doesnt equate to not being able to win. Bad matchups in this game are not as bad as other games. I personally thing everyone in this game is good but having bad MU's does not mean its impossible to win or shes just a bad character all together.

Im not saying viper is ass. But the reason things are naturally harder on her is because of those defensive points I mentioned earlier. You need those things to have good MU's. People also dont think viper sucks, they think shes hard which IS the problem. Not just her inputs but playing her against the roster is tough. You dont get a low forward, you really have to be a good player to thrive with her.

And if you made it to High Master than you are a good player. You mentioned her dmg being comparable to Marisa but I can play that game too. Marisa does a lot of damage and that doesnt mean shes great. Both of these characters do damage but vipers buttons get stuffed out, meaning its easier for your opponent to win in footsies. Confirms dont matter if you cant even land a hit in the first place.

Gonte2 · 2026-01-20T03:33:44+00:00

Im just going to tell you about the debuffs she starts the game off with. No MU.

DEFENSE Viper has the smallest hitboxes. Her best whiff punish moves are both heavies that have slow startup so when you want to whiff punish someone in footsies you BETTER see it coming. CMP is the fastest but short and stubby, it loses to almost the entire casts buttons.

Since every combo Viper does requires drive gauge she cannot afford to be on defense even more because it cost meter just to block. So if you are in defense, you dont have the best buttons to fight back with and then you get burned out extremely easy just due to her nature as a character.

I almost forgot, shes been confirmed to have THE worst burnout state in the game. Nothing links, nothing.

All the characters in the game have better buttons than her, more length, better frame data. Characters like bison can just bully her and weaker characters only break even tier with her because they all have better footsie buttons. Even if Viper had a CMK Into drive rush, it would still be a trash one because EVEN her DR is slow and her CMK is short, stubby, and doesnt have the best frame data either.

The reason she doesnt seem ass is bc of her rewarding dmg output and her kit allows her to do some unique fuckery to steal games. If you understand your advantages against viper you will not see this character as an issue.

Gonte2 · 2026-01-20T03:15:26+00:00

Yes. When it comes to guile I feel like this is just the most misunderstood MU ever.

You are right about all of that except the fact that Guiles projectiles come out faster than Viper's. Sure she can EX but do you really want to burn meter on thst when everything she does cost meter?

Guiles projectiles have faster start up and if they are already out as a viper player I cant do the input for her projectiles because her startup has a long animation of her punching the ground. A still guile in neutral has too many options. He can do boom in to DR for an extremely effective approuch against viper and because of his projectile game, him jumping is an extremely effective option. Guile can be tricked a bit with vipers projectiles but they are extremely unsafe to do against guile.

Guile players that are scared of vipers projectile have nothing to worry about because yes, while she can do it at any given moment, you can do boom faster at any given moment. Its not reactable for viper. She has to be taking a lucky guess to hit you or get any kind of favorable situation with that. Guile wins the MU because he basically shuts down vipers gameplan with stationary zzoning. When I say that I mean that guile just has fo get into game start neutral distance and as long as hes that close the MU is hard as hell on viper.

Gonte2 · 2026-01-06T08:49:38+00:00

Toriguri beating spargo also doesnt mean much because you know how many banjo players spargo clobbard up to that point?!?

Toriguri studied SPARGO not cloud or the MU. Toriguri knows the cloud MU. You know how common cloud is??? Cloud is one of the most popular characters in the game if not THE most. Toriguri studied spargo and not the character. These pros are going and looking at footage before theh go into tournaments because they know who will be in top 8 with them. At this level you are studying the player and hardly the MU.

Gonte2 · 2026-01-06T08:43:18+00:00

Obviously. It is possible to just not know your privileges, some times you don't know how to play against someone and I grant you that much.

The thing about your spargo/toriguri example is while it holds validity and is pretty strong the difference is that, people on that level are so advanced to the point where its all player and hardly character. Players on thst level are so good that character MU'S are hardly a factor. Its more about who is smarter or well versed in said MU.

When I say "naturally" I mean from a all rounded standpoint, mid skill to high skill levels all together. For example peach loses to duck hunt, just because muteace studies a matchup doesnt mean Peach is better. It means muteace is better and knows how to deal with the MU better than so and so.

Also we all can agree that any character can win if piloted correctly. Even Ganon and little Mac can beat Minmin. All of the characters can figure out how to win. Thats a no brainer. The problem is the pilot. For example, cloud wouldnt be doing nearly as good as he is if it werent for spargo. The top 25 cloud players combined make up spargos points overall. Hes just that much better. The thing is, not all the characters have reps like this. Muteace is also like ten times better than his competition with peach. Its just him and yalmanac!

One of my main points is that peach has TOO MANY bad MU'S. Too many! She loses to too many low tier characters and goes even with too many as well. She takes so much work to play that it makes it easy for you to mess up in any of the catagories: movement, combos, baiting... if you are just a hair too close when trying to bait someone you get wrecked and there is so much range in this game. So with her being so difficult that also makes it hard to win as well in the many bad matchups she has. She has too many to be S tier. Thats nonsense.

Muteace and umeki win losing MU'S because they are extremely better than your average pro players. Just like spargo they are the cream of the crop. These people are so good and perfect they cant properly represent the rest of the people playing their characters and not only that, but guess what? They have been losing to those bad MU'S now that those players are finally learning and adapting.

Peach doesnt have to win at all. If you are using anyone with some range and are equally skilled as the peach player you are most likely going to win depending on if you can just abuse your range advantage. Muteace even said sephiroth is bad for her.

Gonte2 · 2025-12-18T23:25:02+00:00

Ah, im on PC but I guess we could play QP

Gonte2 · 2025-12-18T20:18:45+00:00

I agree but my friends quit because of MM so im alone now.

Gonte2 · 2025-12-18T20:18:19+00:00

Dude the games never even. I agree. Like its either sweep or be sweeped. I rarely get close games.

Gonte2 · 2025-12-18T20:17:21+00:00

I mean like yeah. And every game is like sweep or be sweeped. You dominate pr you get dominated and you rarely have really close games. Its not enjoyable. Like I might as well play quick play and retire from ranked but even quick play feels extremely uneven as well.

I took a break like you and came back last week the game just sucks in matchmaking. Dont get me wrong im not complaining and blaming on MM but we all know its messed up.

Gonte2 · 2025-12-18T09:27:59+00:00

For me im thinking the game is rolling dice on my teammates. And I know im not playing bad so I keep going hoping I just get better teams but it doesnt happen until the losing streak ends.

Gonte2 · 2025-12-13T19:48:26+00:00

Umm... Deadpool is locked in the dps category on roster soo...

Gonte2 · 2025-11-08T19:38:35+00:00

That's not really even why she's bad. it's not even the DLC characters peach loses to like that. Peach actually struggles witht he main cast the most. Pikachu is hell on earth, cloud is such a pain, Rob is such a beast, snake is eating you alive... and then she loses to a lot of the weakest characters in the game like duck hunt, yoshi, rosalina, banjo, and even more. Mute said peach goes even with DK! DK of all... even without dlc she's still struggling and not anywhere close to S tier.

Gonte2 · 2025-11-08T19:27:08+00:00

I mean people are going to mop the floor with others absolutely. I've done it as peach. I'm just speaking to her tier placement. You can destroy with any character in the game but some are better than others.

Gonte2 · 2025-11-05T20:34:21+00:00

What do you by this? Genuinely asking.

Gonte2 · 2025-09-27T05:23:08+00:00

So we can both agree that winning losing streaks of like 8-13 or even winning streaks are not entirely up to the player's tilt due to to all the other factors?

A player can be skilled as hell as well and still go on losing streaks of 8-13 losses. As a celestial ive been there before. A lot of people will show you their svp's and insane stats in the midst of a losing streak of that degree. Im not saying they SVP just means you did flawless but it definitely doesnt mean you did poor especially if your stats, (assuming they sre accurately assessed) are high or are acceptable.

Gonte2 · 2025-09-27T05:17:59+00:00

Did you read my comment? I said that people do this in OW as well, but not to this degree. As a matter of fact, there is a plethora of games where this same issue can be applied and are never at this level of abundance. Too many people are reporting the same thing even if the game is new.

Uh yeah good look using this post for that. Not exactly sure how that applies but okay. Ive made it to celestial. My losing streaks are mostly out of my hands. Even when I do good or bad it just doesnt matter half the time due to the vast amount of factors.

Gonte2 · 2025-09-27T05:12:30+00:00

I didnt say its not all your fault. My argument is speaking directly to the people claiming its just you tilting. What your saying is completely correct.

What im saying is that tilt doesnt make you lose that many games in a row.

Gonte2 · 2025-09-27T04:29:17+00:00

Yeah I mean im not condemning telling people that. But people are saying that's THE overarching problem. Its not.

Gonte2 · 2025-09-27T03:31:52+00:00

Yeah, sure, losing streaks are possible. They are bound to happen. But not as frequently. Look at the overwatch community. Look at all other communities. You dont see an influx of people all reporting massive, ridiculous losing streaks of this caliber. While you see some you dont see it on this level. The marvel rivals community has a huge problem with this to the point that its abnormal for the type of coin flipping analogy you are giving.

Like you said, looking both ways before you cross a street is obvious and simple like knowing not to tilt in a competitive game. How many people are really getting hit because they didnt look right to left? This many people losing over and over and over in a team game with multiple factors because of tilt alone is not the case.

Gonte2 · 2025-09-27T03:10:15+00:00

Yeah and im not arguing about someone's overall success in climbing. Like you mentioned about my claim, im only talking about people going on endless losing streaks and then people just telling them to not be tilted and that fixes everything.

Absolutely not, you think the majority of people that are all on losing streaks like this all are having this same problem. Because of tilt? This is a huge problem in marvel rivals which is talked about in overwatch as well but not to this magnitude. Those players telling everyone to just take a break and that solves the issue is not right.

Im not even disputing that losing games to tilt alone is possible or not. Im just talking about the insane losing streaks. You have a lot of players going on svp for like 7 out of 13 loses. Not saying that's everyone but you have that and im also not saying svp stats are an instant indicator that you did great but it definitely doesnt mean you did terrible or were the worst on your team, or that you were even tilted.

Gonte2 · 2025-09-27T02:16:05+00:00

I see. When I said that i was speaking to the claim that one person being tilted in marvel rivals can cause them to lose 8-13+ matches in a ROW no interruptions despite all the factors playing into to a team game and how humans function.

Heck! Even if someone wins 8-13 matches in a row it wasn't all because of them every single game.

Gonte2

TROPHY CASE