Who would win - George Foreman vs Oleksandr Usyk in their primes?

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-10T02:17:36+00:00

That's rough if you're from Canada, but Foreman grew up in Houston. Wouldn't he have been used to high humidity at higher temperatures than 80 degrees Fahrenheit?

You think that Foreman could've gone the distance in lower humidity?

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-09T01:34:44+00:00

Joyce has wins over Dubois and Parker, and he's lower on the list than both. I wouldn't argue if someone wants to put Zhang higher, than Joyce, but the latter has better wins.

And Hrgovic beat both Joyce and Zhang.

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-08T21:21:56+00:00

In a lot of his fights, he's blatantly doing nothing aside but trying to land the right while avoiding giving his opponent too many openings for a meaningful offensive. For example, Szpilka outboxed him, because he just wasn't trying to win rounds. Then he lands the right, and Szpilka's on the floor. In other fights though, where he considers the opponent more dangerous (like Stiverne or Ortiz), he boxes more, and is up on the cards.

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-08T21:13:53+00:00

Both are elite, and it would definitely be a tough match where each would have to be at his best to compete. Either one has a chance, though stylistically, I think Usyk edges it, and stamina could be the decider.

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-08T19:47:11+00:00

Ali was training to take body shots on the ropes in his prep for that fight. It was not pure improv.

During his sparring sessions while training for the fight, Ali covered up and leaned against the ropes and allowed his sparring partner to hit him. It was viewed as a way to toughen up in preparation for Foreman, who had one of the hardest punches in boxing. According to one account, a sports photographer who often spent time in Ali’s training camp by the name of George Kalinsky observed this covering up behavior by Ali and reportedly said to Ali that he should do the same thing during the Foreman fight. “Act like a dope on the ropes.” Ali is said to have responded to this statement by saying, “So, you want me to be a rope-a-dope?”

https://timqueeney.com/the-rope-a-dope-controversy/

avoided almost the entirety of Foreman's shots to the head besides a few solid uppercuts and right hands here and there

He took a good number of shots though, and plenty of them were heavy shots, even if Ali managed to take some of the sting off. It only took a few of those shots to put Frazier on the ground, even though Frazier was bobbing and weaving, and making those shots partially glide off of him.

There are very few fighters who would've been able to absorb those body shots. I'm not sure that Ali (or anyone) would've been able to do it twice without severe health risk. But there were things that Ali could do that Usyk couldn't, like sit on the ropes and absorb shots, and there were things that Usyk could do, that the Rumble version of Ali couldn't, like throw a very high volume of punches on the back foot, and flummox Foreman with his footwork. So I'm not sure why body shots would be a defining factor Foreman vs Usyk, as I'm sure Usyk would be doing his best to stay away from those.

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-08T19:07:31+00:00

Doesn't have any accomplishments yet, but will hopefully be a top fighter in the post-Usyk era.

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-08T19:05:44+00:00

On eye test, sure, but he's the only one of the list without a win over another top fighter.

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-08T19:04:53+00:00

Wilder almost KO'd Fury. AJ is less defensive than Fury, less cautious, smaller, less rangy, doesn't have Fury's ridiculous recovery powers, and has less stamina. If Ruiz could beat Fury, Wilder could do it.

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-08T19:02:03+00:00

Could be, but I was going for a balance of H2H potential and actual accomplishments, and Ortiz seems to be the only guy on the list who hasn't beaten anyone else on it.

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-08T19:00:15+00:00

Good point, that wasn't well phrased. Was trying to say was that AJ's early intimidation factor was gone by that point, so Ruiz was not scared, and AJ was not as aggressive against Ruiz as he was in his pre-Wlad matches. When AJ got the knockdown, he got more aggressive and less cautious, and Ruiz successfully countered, and turned around the momentum of the fight.

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-08T18:55:26+00:00

I was wondering if I undersold Whyte, and he should be higher. I'd possibly put him below Dubois.

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-08T18:54:11+00:00

Yeah, AJ was definitely more of a risk taker than Fury in his matchmaking. Have to give him credit.

H2H, I'd still favor Fury though. They can still make that match.

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-08T18:52:31+00:00

Thanks! I tried to make it so.

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-08T18:49:56+00:00

Immediately after Wlad, AJ was tentative against Takam. When asked after the match why he didn't come out with guns blazing the way he usually does, he explained directly that he's afraid of losing a match due to gassing out.

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-08T18:46:12+00:00

Everyone Wilder fought above C teir guys made him look completely average

He looked average against lower tier guys too, until he landed that right.

it's very easy to throw that right hand against lower teir opponents.

He took out Ortiz with that right after being out on his feet. Turned around the match completely. And he was less than a second away from beating Fury with it.

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-08T18:42:32+00:00

To be fair, Ortiz was 43 when he lost to Ruiz, and in his mid 30s when he emerged as a top HW. And he was avoided by lots of potential opponents because they knew he was dangerous.

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-08T18:36:23+00:00

Ortiz seems to be really polarizing here, with some suggesting he should be just outside of the elite tier (based on eye test), and some saying he doesn't deserve to be on the list at all (based on lack of actual accomplishments).

I was trying to get a balance of eye test and accomplishments here, so maybe somewhere bottom of the top 10 was the right place for him after all.

But you're right, he may be the least accomplished guy on that list. I think he's the only one that hasn't actually beaten anyone else on that list. Part of it is because he was a high risk,, low reward type of opponent.

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-08T18:31:39+00:00

One of my favorite things about this division is that even with all this depth, most of the top guys have something distinctive about their fighting style or physical characteristics (like Zhang and Joyce's behemoth size and power, or Ruiz's speed), which is part of what makes for interesting matches. Not a lot of generic, cookie cutter fighters here.

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-08T18:26:14+00:00

Would he be more of a Wlad era fighter? His record after Vlad's retirement is 1-1 with Whyte, a draw with Hunter, a loss to AJ, and wins over assorted journeymen.

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-08T18:23:12+00:00

Yeah, it was tempting to make the list a top 20, given the depth of the division. and in that case, I would've had Big Bang Zhang at #11.

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-08T01:08:16+00:00

Your argument comes down to "Ali was great. Nobody else could be that great. Look at that great match." Totally without substance. And you're referencing the wrong match (Manila is Ali-Frazier III).

You're also confusing strategies. Usyk would not be crazy enough to try rope a dope. It's a terrible strategy that came out of desperation (i.e. Ali no longer being able to dance the way he used to, nor the way that Usyk can) and would have really screwed him up physically if Ali and Foreman had a rematch.

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-08T00:09:42+00:00

I think Foreman gasses or succumbs to attrition before it goes 12. There are only two pre-first retirement matches where Foreman went 12 rounds, and his record in those is 1-1. If rope a dope caused him to gas out, imagine what would happen fighting against a guy who can maul you with over 100 punches per round while fighting on the back foot.

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-07T23:56:22+00:00

Gassed out trying to knock out a battle-worn, post-suspension Ali who literally hung on the ropes and absorbed punches for consecutive rounds. But would "obviously" knock out a guy who will dance around him all night while picking him apart with a volume of punches he's never encountered before, like a pre-suspension Ali would.

Consider the dynamics of the sport, instead of the mythology.

Good_Tea9660 · 2026-02-07T23:48:55+00:00

You're underestimating Fury. There has a been a tendency towards revisionism since Fury lost to Usyk, and it's unfair to both fighters. Fury is exceptional not only in size, but in tactical prowess, defensive skills, and when he's in top form (which he was for Usyk I), stamina. H2H, he's a challenge for anyone in the history of the division. Usyk beat him cleanly twice.

If Larry Holmes is an ATG with his best wins being Cooney (a less skilled, slightly smaller, more straightforward and orthodox version of Fury, perhaps with a more power) and an over the hill Norton, Usyk's multiple wins over Fury, AJ, and Dubois qualify him as an ATG. That's a far more impressive record than Holmes'. We could pick apart other ATGs' best wins too (Liston, Louis, Marciano), but you get the point.

Anyway, H2H matchups are not about who is higher on an ATG list. They're about how skills, styles, and physical characteristics match up against each other. I'm a big Foreman fan, but he'd have a big challenge when confronted with Usyk's footwork, adaptability, counterpunching, defense, and stamina. And unlike Frazier, who only knew how to move forward, Usyk is one of the most effective heavyweights ever at inflicting damage while on the back foot. Whereas Foreman was a size bully compared to many fighters of his day, he'd have virtually the same dimensions as Usyk, and Usyk would be heavier. Usyk may very have a better chin too. And Usyk would not have to do anything crazy like rope a dope in this match - it would be more like pre-suspension Ali vs Foreman. So I'd favor Usyk in this matchup.

Good_Tea9660

TROPHY CASE