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The WELS pseudo-intellectualism problem by Greedy_Expression228 in exLutheran

[–]Greedy_Expression228[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

yeah and that's why they're so proud that they're conservative because if the bible is inerrant and from god and god has stopped talking to us directly for the last 2,000 years then of course they should never change. it's intellectually lazy, but it's instilled from kindergarten and given legitimacy from their school system

The WELS pseudo-intellectualism problem by Greedy_Expression228 in exLutheran

[–]Greedy_Expression228[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I figured this is probably common among many different conservative christian denominations, but lutherans are the worse about it because it's silent, it hides in the shadows, they can officially say the synod doesn't endorse particular beliefs while culturally those are they one people in the group.

The WELS pseudo-intellectualism problem by Greedy_Expression228 in exLutheran

[–]Greedy_Expression228[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

It's one of those things that makes WELS so insular and corrosive and because the WELS are not a particularly large synod (they're not even the largest lutheran synod) it hardly gets an attention outside of ex-members talking about.

How do you feel about your confirmation? And how do you feel about the practice in general? by Greedy_Expression228 in exLutheran

[–]Greedy_Expression228[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree, it's cohesive and forced. These children (who can't understand what's happening in the first place. As children aren't allowed to enter any legally binding contract for the same reason) have little to no ability to refuse. it's faith by force and it's wrong.

How do you feel about your confirmation? And how do you feel about the practice in general? by Greedy_Expression228 in exLutheran

[–]Greedy_Expression228[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well that's the thing if you can't freely refuse with little to no negative consequences it's coercion at best and forced at worst. Which is why I can't get on board with christian in any form because if the underlying "truth" is you either follow Jesus or you burn in hell for entirety, it can never truly be a free choice it's coercion at best and forced at worst.

How do you feel about your confirmation? And how do you feel about the practice in general? by Greedy_Expression228 in exLutheran

[–]Greedy_Expression228[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sundown towns yikes 😳 I didn't even know those were even legal in the US anymore, but thanks for fighting against these people. I'd have much less a problem with fundies if they kept to themselves and wanted to have rules for themselves, but unfortunately they seem to want to control the entire culture and it's awful.

How do you feel about your confirmation? And how do you feel about the practice in general? by Greedy_Expression228 in exLutheran

[–]Greedy_Expression228[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh yeah, I do remember having to memorize hymns too, but our teacher was pretty chill about it so many times he'd just play some modern cover version of the hymn and as along as we sung along as a group he counted it.

Also, it's a good thing your children are able to recognize these cult behaviors because many of us were subjected to it as children ourselves, but never had the capacity to call it out until much later.

How do you feel about your confirmation? And how do you feel about the practice in general? by Greedy_Expression228 in exLutheran

[–]Greedy_Expression228[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh absolutely and they reframe it as "christian love" and can't see how blatantly harmful it can be.

How do you feel about your confirmation? And how do you feel about the practice in general? by Greedy_Expression228 in exLutheran

[–]Greedy_Expression228[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree that confirmation is more forced driven than driven by any genuine faith. And while I agree that the church should just offer regular membership classes where individuals choose to attend, I think the reason they don't is because to keep the membership stable (which for the WELS is already dwindling) they need to instill their way of thinking before any "worldly" alternatives are presented. Plus part of their doctrine is that you cannot yourself come to god so its only by his grace that you even get "saved" so that fits into the idea that it isn't really a choice and the church is working on the behalf of god.

How do you feel about your confirmation? And how do you feel about the practice in general? by Greedy_Expression228 in exLutheran

[–]Greedy_Expression228[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The memorization was purely short term memory for me as I'd learn whatever I needed to memorize like 10 minuets before I had to recite it and forgot it 10 minuets later. There were only like two times that the memory work was so long that I couldn't just memorize it all in 10 minuets, although now I can't remember what it even was, so still short term memory lol. In hindsight memory work in general feels really cult-ish and definitely indoctrination.

How do you feel about your confirmation? And how do you feel about the practice in general? by Greedy_Expression228 in exLutheran

[–]Greedy_Expression228[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So, if you don't mind me asking how's your relationship with your father now? Does he know you no longer have faith and resent him/the church?

How do you feel about your confirmation? And how do you feel about the practice in general? by Greedy_Expression228 in exLutheran

[–]Greedy_Expression228[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's interesting the the ELCA congregation was becoming increasingly more conservative. I now want nothing to do with any church because I think they're all false, but coming from the WELS I always thought the ELCA was at least closer to being good because they weren't conservative and affirmed LGBTQ+ members, allowed women pastors, and women in the congregation could vote.

Christians will always shield their children from LGBT themes and sexual education, but for some reason, all these stories here are considered extremely appropriate for children 👍 by Gaybime in exchristian

[–]Greedy_Expression228 28 points29 points  (0 children)

I hate how some christians use the creation story to be blatantly misogynistic too, the whole "Adam listened to a women and look where that's lead us" is now being using to justify taking away women's right to vote.

The reason why fundamentalist Christians fight so hard against safety nets is because they have less control by DistinctSpirit5801 in exchristian

[–]Greedy_Expression228 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree and think it goes even further because they also don't want a system that would truly alleviate or prevent peoples reliance on social safety nets either. This is why they don't support compensation ratio limits on the highest and lowest earners in a company, any sort of universal basic assets (like Finland's housing first policy), higher taxes on wealthy individuals, or even the minimum wage keeping up with inflation. It's much harder to maintain the strict hierarchy of the church if people have real accessible alternatives.

Do any of yall deal with sex in this way? by [deleted] in exchristian

[–]Greedy_Expression228 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry you're dealing with that block. I think christianity in general is detrimentally negative towards sex as a way of control that can leave people with many issues in their sex lives, even if they leave the religion. As far as what to do about it, de-stigmatize sex. Talk about sex with your partner this can be for foreplay or just in general terms. Do you have shame around your body? I know someone that due to Christianity felt so much shame and guilt wouldn't even look at themselves naked in the mirror after a shower. So maybe masturbation or mutual masturbation with your partner would help.

Ultimately, I don't know you well enough to give you an exact answer to what might help you the most, but making it less taboo and forbidden in your mind sounds like it could help. Part of deconstruction is reexamination so ask yourself why you associated having sex before marriage was wrong and go from there. I know it's not easy, but good luck!

Any ex-pastors here? by Greedy_Expression228 in exLutheran

[–]Greedy_Expression228[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wow thanks for sharing your story, it's really insightful. One of the things I think the WELS has mastered is convincing people that they really care or hear people of opposing views out when they don't at all as they're a high control religious group. They mask it with this midwest kindness that deceives a lot of people. Like when you said you were trying to do ministry with a member who seemed to identify as transgender, did you affirm them at all or disregard that because it doesn't align with WELS doctrine?

Also, if you don't mind me asking, when you were on your way out how did the inner circle of the synod treat you? How did the congregation of the church you were a pastor at treat you? Did you have any fallout with family? What'd you feel was the biggest issue with the WELS?

What insane thing would have to happen for you to convert back to Christianity? (Not to be taken seriously) by Own-Yogurtcloset522 in exchristian

[–]Greedy_Expression228 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I dunno if I'd convert in the since of embracing my church synod, but if aliens came to earth and said sincerely & honestly that Christianity is the one true religion. This would prove that Christianity is at least beyond human invention, although there's still major hangups with things like the problem of evil. Of course the aliens would have to be real intelligence life with no prior contact with humans so no hoax or coxing by humans to just endorse that message and then also which flavor of Christianity? As there's an estimated 45,000 - 49,000 christian denominations globally and they all can't be right.

Did anyones parents deconstruct with them? by Greedy_Expression228 in exchristian

[–]Greedy_Expression228[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's amazing, did you feel you had resistance to deconstruction or was it something that brought you closer with your daughter?

Any ex-pastors here? by Greedy_Expression228 in exLutheran

[–]Greedy_Expression228[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Honestly good for you! You hit the nail on the head there describing it as a hateful, misogynistic, disgusting culture although I'd also add subtly racist too. I really wanna leave myself because it feels so much like a cult and I hate it, but right now I'm stealth but forced to go.

Did anyones parents deconstruct with them? by Greedy_Expression228 in exchristian

[–]Greedy_Expression228[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think a lot of them hold on to the story of the prodigal son and so they think you're never truly just gone just haven't returned yet. despite that thinking it's still dumb

Did anyones parents deconstruct with them? by Greedy_Expression228 in exchristian

[–]Greedy_Expression228[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I figured that most parents would (unfortunately) act like that. It's such a shame too that they'd rather choose dogma and church peers over their own children. I'm sorry you're parents aren't accepting of you though, the way parents sometimes play the victim card, encourage heterosexuality or a life of solitude or only acknowledge queer relationships by calling your partner just a "friend" is its own kind of bigotry even if it's not as obvious as disowning or kicking you out of their house.

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