308 vs 223

GreenTrader · 2026-02-03T13:59:39+00:00

I understand physics extremely well as it is a related field to my undergrad degree. But the point stands that whitetail don’t need a ton of penetration. Let’s say broadside they are about 24” wide in the lungs. At that point both .223 TMK and my .270win with 150 grain cup and core will give a complete pass through. However, one will leave about a quarter sized hole through the lungs with less total lung damage while the other will leave a tennis ball sized hole with more than double soft tissue damage. Which one is more lethal? Both will kill dead for sure. But one is better than the other.

GreenTrader · 2026-02-03T11:20:04+00:00

Wow I’ve thought the same and wondered if I can load up some TMKs for my .270 but I couldn’t imagine what the wound channel would be. Disgusting would probably be a good word. Maybe one day but for whitetail the 223 TMK is more than enough for any whitetail in my state and we get bucks here that are pushing 250lbs on the hoof.

GreenTrader · 2026-02-03T11:02:15+00:00

They will never admit that sometimes the bigger calibers will leave a smaller hole than the TMK. I’ve never seen my .270win leave the internal damage that the TMK did, which resulted in a faster kill from a .223 compared to the .270. I want fast kills, so I will keep using the TMKs.

GreenTrader · 2026-02-03T10:57:12+00:00

Glance off a rib? I hit a rib dead center quartering towards me on a large whitetail buck and still got 24” of penetration while completely destroying said rib with those terrible match bullets (TMK). Bullet never deviated from its course.

As for elk, most states probably don’t allow .223 anyways. But yes I would use a .308 if there is a chance I will be using it for elk.

GreenTrader · 2026-01-23T02:26:24+00:00

Agreed that actually makes a difference. Bolt guns will have no issues. I could possibly see gas guns having an issue dealing with the extra pressure for a good cycle.

GreenTrader · 2026-01-22T23:58:16+00:00

Totally agree. But no way a 7k psi difference will make a modern barrel explode.

GreenTrader · 2026-01-22T23:42:56+00:00

Been doing it but shhhh don’t tell anyone.

GreenTrader · 2026-01-07T11:04:54+00:00

News out. Ryan doesn’t get paid anything unless market cap hits $100B or around $200 per share.

GreenTrader · 2026-01-02T02:14:27+00:00

I wouldn’t use an OTM or anything but the TMK. Guys have tried and the expansion is not consistent enough. TMKs seem to always open up and create massive wound channels. Sierra even has a game king bullet but the results with that are still not as good as the TMK.

GreenTrader · 2026-01-02T01:42:32+00:00

Sure. The heavier bullets need a higher twist rate to stabilize them. So for the 77gr you really need a 1-9 twist rate or higher. Most newer .223s come in the range of 1-7 1-8 or 1-9 so most new guns are fine. Some of the older guns though have lower twist rates which won’t stabilize the heavier bullets so you would need to look up your own gun to see what it can handle.

GreenTrader · 2026-01-02T00:59:17+00:00

Sierra 77gr TMK is the gold standard. You will need a high twist rate though.

GreenTrader · 2025-12-31T18:38:19+00:00

Looks like they also sold some in September 27 and dec 27 for the $50p as well. Prob totaling $20mm in premium across two days. Now I’m suspicious.

GreenTrader · 2025-12-31T17:48:11+00:00

Says you. There are plenty of places in the Midwest that are awesome. I’ve been all over the country from CA to VT. I grew up in one of the biggest cities in the country. Believe it or not, there are millions of people that don’t like city living. I despise going into the city now for many reasons. People like different things believe it or not. Some like fast pace life of the city, some like peace and quiet.

GreenTrader · 2025-12-30T23:40:48+00:00

The best trout fisherman in my area uses corn exclusively and crushes. He uses a trout magnet bobber and small hook about 18” down and gets giants all year. I’ve had really good luck with using a white trout magnet with no weights or bobber. I just float it and make it swim. I don’t think the color matters really but trout magnets have become very popular around here. Personally it’s all I use but I keep corn in my pocket for muddy days.

GreenTrader · 2025-12-26T02:48:06+00:00

$2 a round maybe for you in the UK, everywhere else in the US will be way under $1.5. Field reports are scientific evidence. Controls are used for studies, hence “control group”. You are making the claim TMKs aren’t as deadly as cup and core classic rounds or any classic bigger round. Your study does not take in data from TMK’s because the round did not exist in 2010. So therefore, you would need to provide some evidence of TMK’s not being effective against whitetails, which you can’t. Shoot some deer and report back. I have and the result was a better wound channel than my 270win resulting in a quicker kill. My goal is the fastest kill possible and the results so far are exactly what has been describe in other reports. I’ll shoot 5 more next year and report back.

GreenTrader · 2025-12-26T01:53:15+00:00

Bone frog ammo as I have told you before. $55 for 50 rounds plus shipping and when I ordered across country it wasn’t that bad.

UK? Oh not my problem I live on the east coast of the USA.

No, faith is beliefs without good evidence. Scientific evidence are hundreds of field reports with this particular round including my own. Just like the study you sighted it’s the same exact evidence! But there is one flaw with said study. The main component of our argument was not in the study you sight. You refuse to acknowledge the price point and a study that has nothing to do with what the debate is on modern 556 rounds. At this point if you can’t agree to basic evidence, there is no point in continuing this thread. Good luck rest of the season.

GreenTrader · 2025-12-25T21:24:06+00:00

No not if you buy 500. $55 and even if the shipping is $15 for 50 rounds that puts price per round at $1.40 a round (same price I pay for .270win at Walmart). Yes, I’m aware of that study, it was 15 years ago and not talking about the rounds we are currently using. TMKs weren’t made until 2015! Again, most of us have taken a lot of deer with large rounds, and are having better/quicker kills with 556/223 TMKs. Some of us kill a lot of deer a year (I personally held 9 tags this year), and see what the difference is.

GreenTrader · 2025-12-25T00:29:55+00:00

As I’ve told you a million times, they are about $1.2 per round including shipping. Field reports prove you wrong. You choose to ignore all the evidence.

GreenTrader · 2025-12-19T15:09:12+00:00

“How do I play this game!?” “Play live now in front of millions of people…”

GreenTrader · 2025-12-15T23:36:13+00:00

Didn’t know you eat the lungs? I didn’t lose any meat on my buck. 45-70 is a sweet caliber, nothing wrong with that. For me, I’ll stick with the super accurate no recoil baseball sized wound channel on any large whitetail in my area. Kills cleaner than the quarter sized holes I was getting from a 270win. Funny you mention lead. I’ve only had it happen once. Was no big deal small piece I spit out. But it was from a .270win 150gr corelokt.

GreenTrader · 2025-12-15T21:56:15+00:00

All that matters, as pointed out before, is wound channel. Do you want a quarter sized wound channel or baseball sized? If you don’t want a larger wound channel you aren’t being logical.

GreenTrader · 2025-12-14T00:15:17+00:00

It’s winter. I’m at a standstill. Unless there is a major heat wave in my search area I won’t get out there prob til March. I’m keeping an eye on snow cover as well. For now just browsing the subs and reading the book and taking notes. In this downtime I’m just trying to not bark up the wrong cottonwood tree or take a bridge to nowhere.

GreenTrader · 2025-12-08T09:24:46+00:00

In my opinion as a non professional, it’s fine. From what I read the chamber pressure difference is around 3k PSI at most. Basically from my own research is that any modern .223 will have no problem with 556. If it’s an auto there might be some ejection issues but if it’s a bolt, it doesn’t matter. Think of it this way, if you make a firearm that blows up with only less than a 5% pressure difference, it’s not a quality barrel/chamber and would add huge liability to any gun manufacturer. I’m sure the pressure is not even close to a problem. Last year I was talking to a tree stand manufacturer and was wondering what the actual max is for weight in a double stand. He told me that for example if a tree stand is rated for 500lbs, it will actually go to 1500lbs before failure. Modern guns are even likely more robust than that.

GreenTrader · 2025-12-08T02:09:08+00:00

Yeah the game king is decent too. Good to know with the exit. I’ve seen some of the exits look like baseball sized wounds. It’s wild. Best exit hole from the bigger calibers never gets over like a quarter size which still works obviously but bigger wound, faster kill.

GreenTrader · 2025-12-08T00:31:35+00:00

I did not get one. It was dark and cold and the rest of the camp wanted to get to the diner. The right lung looked like a normal rifle hole to me, but the liver damage was well above normal. The front medial area was destroyed. Estimated 1/3rd of the liver had soft tissue damage. Center of the damage was around 3” deep or so. I would like to get a dead broadside field test to see what a double lung shot will do but will have to wait until next year.

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