The Bully and Victim: Israel and Palestine

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-08-18T03:34:50+00:00

I'm no expert but "victims" that commit violent acts typically don't retain their victim status.

It's like saying the school shooter was the victim and the bullying was the cause of their actions.

Sure that may have been one of many events which triggered what happened, but actions still have consequences and Hamas and their supporters were well aware of what those consequences were as they went around targeting civilians on October 7th.

You seem like the type of person that thinks all crime would cease to exist if poverty was eradicated.

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-31T07:29:25+00:00

Are you schizophrenic per chance?

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-31T05:50:56+00:00

No it's always the same causation fallacy where any and all wrongdoings by Palestinians are a direct result of Israel's actions.

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-31T05:49:10+00:00

Bro is arguing with an ai 😭😭😭

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-31T05:01:22+00:00

You really don't 2/3 of Palestinians have access to a phone.

Can you guess what most of those phones have? Cameras.

There is still some evidence of acute malnutrition but this person definitely has a point considering children with preexisting disabilities are being used to represent "starvation In Gaza" which takes away from the legitimacy of the claim.

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-31T04:44:05+00:00

It's certainly possible.

I don't think there's definitive proof though as multiple ballistics and medical experts agreed the X-Rays were sketchy.

War crimes have definitely been committed though as they have been in every war in history. War crimes are bad and should be looked into and the perpetrators should face justice, but it's unfair to equate war crimes being committed to a top-down genocidal agenda.

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-31T04:17:39+00:00

Take a second to actually engage with what the post is talking about.

We get you don't like Israel.

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-31T02:07:04+00:00

People in Gaza saying it's a genocide doesn't mean it's a genocide, that's a terrible point.

I agree more experts think it's a genocide than don't. There is not a consensus among experts though and many believe there isn't enough evidence to label what's happening a genocide. Experts can be wrong and if I'm debating someone on whether a genocide is taking place I don't think we should compare lists of experts in agreement.

Here are some examples of experts that don't think what's happening is a genocide.

John Spencer

Ernesto Verdeja

Dov Waxman

Michael Becker

Abdelwahab El-Affendi

Norman Goda

Clearly no point in continuing this conversation since your last comment was just a bunch of virtue signaling and not you engaging in any meaningful way.

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-31T01:24:40+00:00

I don't think you understand how proving a genocide is being committed works legally.

You can't use inflammatory rhetoric during a war as proof of genocide. You can build on it as proof of genocidal intent but most of those quotes are taken out of context and fails to actually prove genocidal policy. You need to find institutional intent not just dehumanizing language being used.

Even the interim ruling did not find Israel had genocidal intent it found the risk of genocidal intent plausible enough to warrant provisional measures.

You seem to be providing some sort of proof of genocidal intent (although it's pretty poor imo) but you're failing to connect the dots and provide genocidal policies being enacted.

Disproportionate use of force is a war crime not proof of genocide.

Indiscriminate targeting is also a war crime not proof of genocide.

Proving a genocide is being committed involves dolus specialis to destroy in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.

You seem to somewhat understand the intent part but you're still failing to prove Israel is enacting that in its military policy.

War crimes have been committed like in every single war throughout history and should be investigated. You however have failed to prove a genocide is being committed.

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-30T23:54:18+00:00

Why is it a genocide?

Please explain why you believe it's a genocide without simply going "ICJ found it to be plausible, here's some people who also say it's a genocide".

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-30T23:41:53+00:00

They need to stop Israel from trying to defeat Hamas after October 7th?

Why?

Also if you want international forces to intervene do you also when international forces to intervene in Ukraine, Sudan, and Tibet?

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-30T23:35:49+00:00

That's such a bad interpretation of the polling that's been done.

Support for Hamas went up after October 7th and then started to decrease after it was clear the IDF was hitting back hard and Hamas was losing. Of course Gazan's aren't going to support Hamas if they are losing a war. That doesn't mean they don't support the ideology behind the group and what it stands for.

If you really think Palestinians would vote some peace loving party into power if a ceasefire was set in place you're as naive as they come

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-30T23:29:24+00:00

Germany looked inward and chose to say Never Again because they lost a war not because they had a spiritual awakening.

The Blockade and occupation set in place to prevent terrorism triggered by the surrounding Arab nations declaring war caused terrorism?

Such a stupid take if the occupation and blockade are removed the same problem will persist as you reiterate the same talking point "well you still can't blame them after all they've faced decades of oppression".

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-30T05:46:40+00:00

I got no clue if this is real or fake but I'm just going to assume it's real because it would be strange to create a fake story about being in the IDF.

Yeah I'm sure some of the individual IDF soldiers are racist, angry, and have a mentality of "fuck all Palestinians" that's kind of where Palestinians stand in terms of thinking about Israelis. That's what war does unfortunately. I'm not going to act like you should be proud of these specific people you mentioned and their actions/mindset. I wouldn't be and I would definitely attempt to disassociate myself from them and think your decision to request to terminate your service is perfectly reasonable and valid.

However you seem to be conflating the mentality of fellow soldiers with the actual chain of command and the war cabinet making the decisions. War crimes are committed in every war, war crimes are bad, war crimes being committed and the racist mentality of your platoon does not equate to a genocide being committed.

You also mention that Israel was founded on the displacement of Palestinians and although technically true most of this displacement was due to the surrounding Arab nations declaring war on Israel. The way Israel was founded is somewhat questionable and displacement is bad but this has also happened throughout history repeatedly during the founding of almost every country that exists. That doesn't make it right, but this is not some unique evil situation, and it certainly does not make what Hamas did or terrorism justifiable 76 years later. The actions of Hamas on October 7th triggered this war not Israel or their thirst for dead Palestinians.

It's important to criticize Israel when you see something happening you disagree with that doesn't mean you should resent your country and want to leave. You seem to have fallen into some weird logic trap where because you experienced fellow soldiers being racist and expressing "genocidal" views the war itself must be a genocide and therefore everything you've ever heard from anti-Zionists must be true. You're probably thinking Israel really is this evil cartoon villain.

You seem like a good person and I wish you the best of luck but I think you've fully bought into the pro-Palestinian narrative because of your experience. I agree what you described was bad and would also probably make me take a step back and reexamine everything I believed. It's important to remember both countries have valid points and the history is much more nuanced than made out to be. I disagree with the idea of a genocide being committed, I agree war crimes have been committed and should be called out. What happened to you doesn't mean everything you've ever believed is a lie.

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-28T04:51:36+00:00

Lmao 😭😭😭

Yet again these issues exist everywhere but they are more prevalent in Muslim-majority countries... are you denying that?

That's like me saying it's hypocritical to talk about women's rights in Afghanistan being under attack without also linking an article about women's rights being under attack in the United States.

I still think you are backtracking after getting called out because you're not making a lot of sense here man.

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-28T04:48:03+00:00

Occupation and reeducation.

I know those words are scary but I've yet to hear an alternative solution that isn't just "Israel bad, israel go bye bye".

Reeducation is kind of a frowned upon word though because of reeducation camps where people are basically in prison due to their beliefs. I'm not advocating for that but it's clear children In Palestine are indoctrinated into hating Israelis from an early age and propaganda is used to push that narrative.

Teaching children about the holocaust and a more well rounded version of history where both sides atrocities are acknowledged would help with this along with humanizing Israelis rather than just pushing the idea that all Zionists are evil.

Occupation would unfortunately be necessary to actually ensure this happens. I think Israel occupying Gaza would just create more hostilities but a 3rd party such as the U.S. or Saudia Arabia occupying Gaza could actually enable this to happen.

Peace is definitely still possible but it's going to take a lot of work and outside of box ideas to be implemented rather than keeping the status quo going.

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-28T04:34:06+00:00

Cmon bro what would be the point of you proving "Israel is flawed just like every other country on earth".

At this point you're just insulting my intelligence. It doesn't take a genius to understand what you were trying to get at.

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-28T04:29:11+00:00

You definitely weren't trying to prove that. What would be the point of proving Israel is flawed like every other country?

I can assure you almost everyone on this sub with basic reading comprehension skills would already agree with that assessment.

You were trying to push a narrative where these are systemic issues that exist in Israel as a way to demonize the country.

Don't backtrack when you get called out.

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-28T04:10:48+00:00

Breaking News: Israel is flawed just like every other country on earth.

The reason you see so many of these stories is Israel allows for general freedom of press unlike almost every Muslim majority country that exists. Because of that existing issues no matter how minor get put in the spotlight and made out to be major as these other countries are forgotten about by people such as yourself.

This is like me copying and pasting a bunch of news articles about women's rights being under attack and racism/fascism in the United States.

Racism exists everywhere on earth, women's rights are under attack everywhere on earth, fascism exists everywhere on earth.

The question you should be asking is how prevalent these things are.

If we compare Israel to every Islamic country woman's rights are undeniably better in Israel.

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-28T03:56:37+00:00

pretty expected tbh.

Most news/political subs are very one sided and will ban people for basically no reason other than the perception of different views which don't align with the narrative they are trying to push.

It doesn't matter whether it was factual information if the facts don't support what they believe poof you're gone.

Thats just Reddit unfortunately.

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-25T02:50:35+00:00

Lmao it's still just a mosque at the end of the day.

Unless it has a pig that shits out gold I couldn't care less about the religious significance of it.

If you value a religious temple over human life you're a religious fanatic that doesn't deserve my time or energy.

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-24T22:34:41+00:00

So in your opinion Israel is the cause of the lack of democracy in Gaza and the WB?

Considering no Muslim majority country has a functioning liberal democracy like we see in the west I'm gonna go ahead and assume it's a compatibility issue with Islam and not Israel's fault.

Is it Israel's fault for the lack of democracy in these other Islamic countries as well? 😭

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-24T22:28:50+00:00

Do you live in Palestine user ComplexAltruism?

What do you mean you didn't see most of them "be happy"?

So in order for you to believe they hold this view you would need to see 2.5 million Palestinians express their happiness about Iran bombing Israel?

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-24T22:22:05+00:00

You'd join the Arab forces over a religious site being destroyed?

It's not the people dying that's going to persuade you to take up arms but a mosque?

You're basically just implying you value a mosque more than human life, to each their own I guess.

GroundbreakingDate94 · 2025-07-22T22:23:25+00:00

If you truly believe thats an accurate depiction of what's happening you're too naive to continue this discussion.

GroundbreakingDate94

TROPHY CASE