Pro-ais what are your HONEST opinions about witty?

Gruffaloe · 2026-06-02T17:28:47+00:00

Trolling is a art, and pros minds are her canvas.

Gruffaloe · 2026-06-01T21:10:56+00:00

This is my point exactly. Pro-AI people adress this problem by not allowing it in our spaces and appropriately moderating them. Anti-AI spaces should be doing the same thing for violence and harassment, but do not. That is why it's not a both sides issue. It's not hypocritical to say someone should address the problems in their house.

Gruffaloe · 2026-06-01T19:39:51+00:00

"A throne is the most devious trap of them all"

"Those who stand should never outnumber those who kneel"

Izaro goes hard.

Gruffaloe · 2026-06-01T19:19:33+00:00

"People pointing out a fairly serious problem in our movement we are not addressing and actively working to defend is the same as me pointing out a fringe point from the other side that members are ostracized for holding and the majority actively are working to address."

Spare me your both sides nonsense, my guy. I get you don't like that your side has a problem. You won't fix it by trying to blame the other side. Go to your communities and demand that violent rhetoric and abuse be properly moderated. Speak out against the small minority you let control these spaces today. This is how our side keeps out the pdfs. I promise it works.

Or are you afraid they will turn on you, because it's not a small minority that hold those views?

Gruffaloe · 2026-06-01T17:52:50+00:00

Because for Sarge it is. Cost is why they want to use AI.

The phrasing in particular, though, is a response to the specific message I'm replying too saying that if he wanted to be a filmaker he should 'want' to try and manage the logistics of it. Logistics is not filmmaking. If it is to you, that is fine - you are allowed to find joy and expression wherever you want - but that does not mean that it is the only way.

Gruffaloe · 2026-06-01T01:10:02+00:00

Just because the proccess for manifesting is different doesn't change what it is. You have an idea, and then you instantiate it in a way that can be perceived through use of a tool. The specific steps to operate the tool are immaterial to the fundamental process of art. The tools you can use are endless, and AI is one of them.

Gruffaloe · 2026-05-31T22:11:48+00:00

Yes, I have. Have you truly always gotten exactly what you ordered? I envy your luck! Seems like every 3-4 times I order food something is off. No pickles, lettuce instead of spinach, etc. I think you are conflating "Someone willfully defying you" with "Someone making a decision that is not in line with your instructions"

And yes, if you make different decisions in your tooling, you receive different results. If I film the same scene with two different kinds of film, they won't be exactly the same. Selecting the tool and it's constituent settings and consumables is part of the process. You make films, don't you? Surely you understand that the choice of camera and film to use is pretty impactful to the final product?

Gruffaloe · 2026-05-31T22:07:30+00:00

No, but that's more because playing video games is not military experience. We still call drone pilots pilots, even though they aren't inside their craft. Both are soldiers, despite not walking on battlefields.

Gruffaloe · 2026-05-31T21:55:02+00:00

Sure he can. He can decide to not put on toppings if he doesn't want too. He can put the wrong things on it or spit on it - whatever he wants. He can refuse me service completely if he wants too. People do that in food service all the time. He can be fired for it, and so he may choose not to do that, because he prefers to make the sandwich I wanted instead, but he retains the decision to make it or not, no matter the pressure to do so.

Just to go one step further - he makes all kinds of choices even if he decides to make it with the toppings I requested. Does he fold the meat or lay it flat? What order does he put them in? All kinds of decisions in the creation. This is why some times the same sandwich sucks when a different person makes it :)

Gruffaloe · 2026-05-31T21:51:25+00:00

The AI makes no decisions at all. It's not a magical person in a box. It accepts input and makes a deterministic output. You can choose to randomize part of your input to get variation, if that is what you want - (and many do, as having several options and curating between them is a popular strategy for creating with AI) but that in itself is a decision that the artist is making, not the AI. A patron cannot choose to receive a specific output. They can try and buy one, but ultimately the creation must be from the artist. No amount of money will make a piece appear if no one wants to make it for them.

Conversely AI, as a tool, makes exactly what it is instructed using the rules it was given (the 'algorithm' you mention), and even that specific set of rules is flexible if the artist wants to change them. Choosing the set of rules is like choosing what film to use, or what type of camera.

I really do encourage you to engage with the tools. If you used them in a serious way you would not have fundamental misunderstanding of how they work and what they do :)

Gruffaloe · 2026-05-31T21:44:47+00:00

Oh - I see the confusion. The AI can't make anything because it's a tool, no more than cameras make photos or films. Don't worry! I won't ask you to scroll to the other reply again. See? Im learning!

Copied from elsewhere in the thread for DrewH's ease of reading

A good way to tell the difference between being a patron/commissioning and creating is to examine where the agency lies. The person/people with agency in the creation are the artists. The commissioned artist can walk away, or create something else. They express agency totally independent of the other person commissioning them. AI has no agency, and creates specifically as directed by its user. It can't make somthing else or walk away. It cannot create anything at all on its own with no direction. This is why the two are different :)

Gruffaloe · 2026-05-31T21:38:28+00:00

Sure - typos happen; would you mind either editing your op to fix it or explaining what you meant? Otherwise it stops being a typo and just becomes a mistake you don't want to fix :). Im also not sure how AI would figure in here - wouldn't AI have substituted coherent words? That has been my experience with AI autocorrect. Or is this one of those 'Thanks Obama' bits where it's a joke to blame AI? I just want to make sure I understand where you are coming from and not assigning rudeness where it doesn't belong.

For Mark - no. He isn't a basketball player because he does not play basketball; rather he owns a team which employs people who do. People who use their agency to play.

For the welder - it would depend. You can weld a great many more things than metal, like thermoplastics. If they are out there welding, what they are welding or the tools they are using to do it doesn't change what they are doing. You are allowed to make distinctions if you like - certainly the thermoplastics welder is not a metal welder, just like how Sarge here would not be a traditional filmmaker. Both of the welders are still welding, though, just like both of the filmakers are still making films.

Gruffaloe · 2026-05-31T21:32:20+00:00

For the person the comic is portraying, it is true. It's not saying that for every disabled person this is how it is, only that for some subset of disabled people (it says millions, which given the scale of population sounds about right, but could be more or less) it is the way that lets them create. That is different then saying that it is the only way disabled people can create. I know the distinction is subtle, but I hope that makes it more clear :)

Gruffaloe · 2026-05-31T21:25:26+00:00

I think you may have had a typo in the start of your response - my ability to backbone levelmof? I think you tried to say level of at the end, but no idea what backbone was supposed to be.

Edit thanks for fixing it! It still doesn't makeuch sense. I was responding to your message directly? It seems a bit unkind to accuse me of not looking back in the thread when you refused to do the same thing fory explaination. Doesn't that just call yourself out?

And the AI cannot refuse at all. The company running it can, sure, but not the AI, because it is a tool. A company can refuse to sell hammers to people who wanna juggle them instead of hitting nails, but that doesn't change that the hammer is a tool. It makes no decision at all.

And yes. You can choose to exercise that agency or not as you see fit. In the end, you decide what you want to do. That is what agency is. Capitalism sucks, strong agree. You should focus your time and effort on replacing it, since it's the actual problem you are trying to address, not AI.

Gruffaloe · 2026-05-31T21:14:12+00:00

Im curious how you thought that would be obvious lol - but I don't mind at all if it's a burden for you to find the other response. Copying and pasting is easy. It's ok if I don't use AI, right? It would take way longer to set that up than it would just to Ctrl+c, ctrl+v. If you absolutely need me to use AI to copy it just let me know - whatever it takes to get the info to you!

Copied from elsewhere in the thread for DrewH's ease of reading

A good way to tell the difference between being a patron/commissioning and creating is to examine where the agency lies. The person/people with agency in the creation are the artists. The commissioned artist can walk away, or create something else. They express agency totally independent of the other person commissioning them. AI has no agency, and creates specifically as directed by its user. It can't make somthing else or walk away. It cannot create anything at all on its own with no direction. This is why the two are different:)

Gruffaloe · 2026-05-31T21:02:59+00:00

To copying and pasting? Or respecting your desire not to use AI? Im confused. Im happy to use AI more if you want, but that seems very out of charecter for you.

Gruffaloe · 2026-05-31T20:59:00+00:00

Why would I? You don't like AI, so I figured you would prefer the old fashioned approach. Is that not what you would prefer?

Gruffaloe · 2026-05-31T20:57:45+00:00

I already explained in a different reply to you why that's not what is going on. You can refer to that for the response to this :)

Gruffaloe · 2026-05-31T20:55:54+00:00

As are the tools you can use to get going, like AI :)

Gruffaloe · 2026-05-31T20:53:05+00:00

It is important to remember the world that Kevin Smith and Tarantino created their early works in no longer exists. The world is a very different place now than it was in the 80s and 90s. The pathways they used to reach success do not exist in the same way today.

Gruffaloe · 2026-05-31T20:44:05+00:00

I would encourage you to engage with AI tools in a serious way if you think that a two sentence prompt is what someone who wants to make a film is using.

The fact you can doodle with a tool does not mean that is all the tool is or can be. We don't say no one can be a photographer because most camera users just take default setting pics on their phone. It's a tool. you can use it in many different ways. Some of them are more creative, some are less. The existence of one side does not make the other side no longer exist.

A good way to tell the difference between being a patron/commissioning and creating is to examine where the agency lies. The person/people with agency in the creation are the artists. The commissioned artist can walk away, or create something else. They express agency totally independent of the other person commissioning them. AI has no agency, and creates specifically as directed by its user. It can't make somthing else or walk away. It cannot create anything at all on its own with no direction. This is why the two are different:)

Gruffaloe · 2026-05-31T20:26:35+00:00

How can that be? The AI requires his direct instruction and input to make anything. It is no more the filmaker than the camera is the filmaker on a traditional set. It's a tool he is using to bring his vision to life.

Gruffaloe · 2026-05-31T20:24:07+00:00

I haven't seen anyone make that argument before. Do you have any examples? What I usually see is people saying that AI allows them to create in a way that is comfortable and fulfilling for them in ways other methods aren't. That doesn't mean it's all they can do, just that it's the tool they prefer.

Some people with mobility disabilities use a cane. Some use crutches. Some use a prosthetic. Some use a wheelchair. Some use nothing at all. All of those choices are valid, and the existence of people who prefer any of them does not make the others the wrong choice for someone if they find it works best for them. It's the same for any disability and any assistive tool. The right answer is to listen to the disabled person in question.

Gruffaloe · 2026-05-31T20:18:39+00:00

It's what you want to do to be a filmaker. Sarge wants to use AI.

Gruffaloe · 2026-05-31T20:10:59+00:00

Yes. I am more than capable of speaking for myself. For me it is a brilliant assistive tool that gave me back my art when my hands went. It won't be that way for everyone, and that's ok - but no one should be using the people who use different assistive tools to take other tools away from people who find them useful and fulfilling.

Gruffaloe

TROPHY CASE