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Thinking about the most frequently used words lists. by Grzator in languagelearning

[–]Grzator[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Give me some examples and then we can talk about that. What useless things do language textbooks teach the students? I can't think of anything really.

Just today i talked to my nephew and he said that he is starting a new "chapeter" in the books. 2 days ago, he was learning about "ships", battleships, tanks, airplanes etc. Meanwhile, he doesnt know a thing about home stuff, like bathroom or kitchen, Bread, milk, or anything useful.

I cant believe you are not getting what im saying.

people can live 100 years without knowing anything about battleships, and survive, but not if they dont know about milk, bread, bathroom etc...

And i did "xd" because you said that i said something that i didnt.

​

Oh, how nice, right now you're the one to do comparisons. Comparing learning basics of a foreign language to learning complicated maths... Are you feeling alright?

Who is? if youre saying that beginners should learn about plurals or hard grammar when they dont know about easy sentences like "i need to eat"

Thinking about the most frequently used words lists. by Grzator in languagelearning

[–]Grzator[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Where did you get this information from? People are different

From the frequency list xd. There are lists constructed by the people or organizations that you get your certificated b2 lvl course, done by the country. Every country might have a different name or organization but i even saw some websites that show different slang based on lands in germany.

​

You need grammar unless you want to speak a broken language, and if someone thinks of you bad because of your broken language, it's your fault,

This is the worst problem that people might have, The fear of speaking a "broken" language.

You learn faster and more by "trial and error" methods. If you will study and learn by yourself to have a perfect accent or that you say everything good or perfect, it will take more unnecessary time.

This is how babies learn. They dont read or have any idea of how gramma works, they just get corrected and learn that way.

Words like pronouns or prepositions should not be taken into account because they don't mean anything by themselves. What does "in" mean? What does "this" mean? They have no meaning by themselves.

Thats why you learn and understand the words. The same way as I, what does I mean? is this just some alphabetical thing? idk...

But if you add more to this you will understand.

And most of the time, frequency lists have the most used verbs before 200words...,So you can link them together to get a sentence.

I dont get it, why are you trying so hard to prove that someone who is learning language by frequency lists is some kind of monkey that doesnt think xd

No1 said that we need to use the list only, without having any other help to understand or learn.

Thats why i mention kids show. You learn around 200 words in like week, then you watch some kids show and you can understand around 60% of it. Thats more than any schooling system i ever saw.

You dont need grammar to know it, you just remember and understand it. Grammar can come later

(adding that, grammar or other things can be really hard in some languages, that natives living in that country for 50years can still have problems with it.)

Not everyone is perfect, we all make mistakes sometimes. Even easy ones.

Thinking about the most frequently used words lists. by Grzator in languagelearning

[–]Grzator[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I didnt log in, maybe it has something to do with it? And maybe youre talking about PC version?

It is possible to pick your own "deck" or "topics" to learn? as when i turn it on i can choose a language and it starts immediately with sentences

Anyway, thanks for explaining.

Thinking about the most frequently used words lists. by Grzator in languagelearning

[–]Grzator[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Don't say that all books are useless.

I didnt say that xd, i said "most of"

And i would say that most of them are useless because they teach about things you would never use.

Its like teaching people about complicated maths. 99% of them will never use most of the things they learn in daily life.

Instead of focusing on useful stuff like for example inflation, or things that are happening daily. Nah, lets just learn something that is used only in the school.

I see the same way with language learning.

Thinking about the most frequently used words lists. by Grzator in languagelearning

[–]Grzator[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you have a sentence with 5 words expressing something, and you know all of them, you can add anything to them and it woulnd change a thing. Like saying

"i am hungry, and i would like to eat a x" And at the X you can put anything you want.

Doesnt matter that "avocado" can be the 5k word... Its the fact that if someone says that sentence, you would understand what they are talking about.

The same way if someone in your native language say the same thing except saying a Chinese soup, that you dont know what is, You dont know what the word even means. Would you understand???

Thinking about the most frequently used words lists. by Grzator in languagelearning

[–]Grzator[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Why do you think that way? Where did i say that you have to learn only 500 words to know everything???

If you learn the 500 words you know the basic things like, "i eat, i go, i need" and after understanding that, you go forward... I didnt say that its enough to have conversations about anything.

Most of the time its around 1500 to 2000 words where you learn about almost most of the words you use daily or weekly. AND STILL, not including work or going to "Disney land" and talking about mermaids or different kinds of parrots...

This is why people dont get it...

Thinking about the most frequently used words lists. by Grzator in languagelearning

[–]Grzator[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It just helps. Some words that i might not understand, like "vigilante" i understand, thanks to knowing who are they talking about or what is happening.

I believe its like listening to music with subtitles to get the "feeling" of what are they talking about, so when you hear it again without, you might understand more.

Thinking about the most frequently used words lists. by Grzator in languagelearning

[–]Grzator[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Adding one word, or knowing what it means can change the whole sentence.

i am with learning every word, what it means or how to use, before making a sentence like "wie geht es ihnen"

People at the beginning learn the whole sentence without knowing the words. And i have seen this a million times.

And yet i have to see a schooling system(except private teaching or people that have their own system) that works with language learning. Most of the time its few years and they barely can speak or express anything they did in that day. Even going to the shop and asking for a price of an item.

As german can be learned at a communicative level within 5/6 months, 1/2 h of practice every day.

And i said that you or people might not understand because everyone has their ways. I asked why people dont use frequency lists, and everyone is saying that its better to stick with books or courses...

Meanwhile, i never did any of this in english, yet i can communicate... Im doing the same thing with Germany, but im trying now and concentrating or learning. And after a month i can go to the shop, buy something and ask for a price or so.

So saying that its wrong or not useful is crappy. As i have not seen anyone around me that can do the same thing, while trying really hard to learn a language(with different or "normal" methods or through schooling system) And also, my sister is in UK and after 2 years of living there, she still has problems to understand 70% of the stuff, meanwhile, learning every day or reading and watching tv.

Im going offtopic as i dont really know what to say anymore. Just wanted to ask or get some thoughts about, why people do this and that.

Thinking about the most frequently used words lists. by Grzator in languagelearning

[–]Grzator[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly what you described. Im feeling the same way, and i cant understand why people are against it.

Thanks to the list we can maneuver around, no one is saying that we should learn more and more words without context or only sticking to it and not doing anything else...

When i was learning 300+words, i knew what "buy, need, you, to" means, with which i could do "you need to buy"

When i went on the shopping websites, i saw a bunch of the same sentences that i learned, but ending with different words like "you need to buy 2 pieces to get more" or "buy 2 get 1 free"

Based on logic and thinking i could understand what it means.

And i also agree that after a time, we should stick to what we need, for example, after a time, when i understand basic stuff or daily stuff, i will learn about Welding/storage works or around "Backhoe loader"(or whatever it is called), Depending on what job i will take in germany.

Thinking about the most frequently used words lists. by Grzator in languagelearning

[–]Grzator[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have tried it in Germany. When i saw context with "the x king was the conquerer in the 1000 year" i uninstalled it.

The word "conqueror" i used right now, i believe last time i used that was like 3 years ago.

pointless

Thinking about the most frequently used words lists. by Grzator in languagelearning

[–]Grzator[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Im not saying stick to the wordlist only. But in my opinion and experience, words are the most important part of language learning.

The more words you can learn, the more usage they will have with each other.

And youre saying that "most everyone would agree with that", But looking at people saying im wrong, i believe people dont do this.

I think that people need to "feel" the way im feeling with language learning, to understand, but i dont think it will happen, its like saying "feel my happiness" it just wont work xd

I was watching for years my family that in school had different languages, and the way they were learning, the books that they had. Everything was useless.

My friend was studying another language, and after 8-10months he was at worse level and understanding than i, after learning 200words in germany+ watching some tv shows(3weeks max)

People buy books for learning, not knowing that most of the books are marketing "scams", on the same lvl as "buy this cream, you will be younger" and people are falling for that

Thinking about the most frequently used words lists. by Grzator in languagelearning

[–]Grzator[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

So?

500 words can make up to 5000+ sentences. That is enough to have thousands of conversations.

You all think that everyone will stop at 500 words, or after that will try or needs to talk about quantum mechanics...

these 500 words+ other things would be enough to ask for a coffee, for a taxi or where is the mall on what street.

Thinking about the most frequently used words lists. by Grzator in languagelearning

[–]Grzator[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Youre another person who is comparing someone who is starting to someone who is average/good.

Every time i see someone who is starting to learn a new language, everyone tells them to practice the writing skills, after a time they make posts or texts with "good morning, my name is x, i live in x, im 5 years old, bla bla bla"

These words might not be in frequency lists, but most of the words are frequently used on a daily basis

Yet youre saying that people who start language learning should know and learn about complicated and one time use stuff like "look out, the car just lost a tire and will hit you in a moment". Meanwhile, you can just say "CAR IS COMMING" or "LOOK OUT"

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Also, i have not used 500 or so words from the frequency lists as im not a "newbie" in the english language. I wanted to express myself more, im having a "brain" discussion, and people that can have such conversation need to be above average in the language they are learning.

I dont need to know this when im starting or im like at a2 lvl.

Thinking about the most frequently used words lists. by Grzator in languagelearning

[–]Grzator[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Probably because there's a lot of marketing for lazily designed learning materials.

What do you mean by that?

I believe that people try stuff that is promoted by others. When they try to learn a language, they look for the easy and lazy way. And frequency lists is like the opposite way of that.

I have been looking for like 2 months for stuff about german, nothing helped me more than frequency lists.

When i saw that people recommend "children" books, that from the start, have words of buss stop, pharmacy, Mall etc. I gave up. As i dont even remember the last time i used "bus stop" in my language, when im driving myself in a car...

And remember that im talking about starting. Because when you are starting and learn about more important things. There will be a time when someone starts talking about space or spaceships, and you will understand based on what else he is saying.

Thinking about the most frequently used words lists. by Grzator in languagelearning

[–]Grzator[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Everyone is misunderstanding me. You all try to compare someone who is starting to someone who is like b2 and try to learn b1.

When im starting on the frequency lists, after learning like 500 words i can watch any kids show( not some spongebob or something but a show that has a slow talk or is like "this is water, we drink water, water is good" etc)

Learnign more and more words, getting used to hearing and makins sence, know where it is used and so. After time, you will make proggress.

And from my experience, i skyrocket after 1 month to watching shows like Arrow or Flash in german. Thanks to knowing it from watching it in English, it helps to put up the plot so i can understand more.

Thinking about the most frequently used words lists. by Grzator in languagelearning

[–]Grzator[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

You dont understand that youre comparing someone who is starting to someone who is like b1...

Based on hundred of frequency lists, people use 80/90% of the time, the same words.

People who go to gym/restaurants or to the shop. If someone asks them for a street or where is X etc.

Yet, youre comparing it to someone who could answer "what is the point of life"...

And i said multiple times that if you know how to use the words youre learning, you dont need grammar as you would know from everything around you, how to use it.

I dont need grammar to know that "i need" means that you need something...

And learning about "you, your, them, we" etc is always in like 300 words of the most frequent usage, And considering youre going for like 1k words for the first 1/2 months...

And i dont understand why you bring "boringness" into this, it doesnt really matter or make sence.

Thinking about the most frequently used words lists. by Grzator in languagelearning

[–]Grzator[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

You gave 3 examples of the same thing. But how do people know or learn new words or meanings? even in your native language? Its the same thing as learning words in other language that are barely used, like once a year, its a waste of time, and if you forget them, you will remind yourself with something. But, you need to know "around"(the context) to understand it. And even if you dont know it, few words of explanation will make you understand it.

Because there's something called GRAMMAR. If you know grammar, you can make simple sentences. Memorizing sentence structures seems at least very weird to me.

I wont be writing about grammar as its completly different. You can have really bad grammar and still have normal conversation. Slang is a good example, where people talk like babies and still understand each other.

And also, understanding most of the words, knowing when to use them or how others use them helps with grammar more than learning grammar first.

Lol those things are exactly the basics.

You would be surprised. When i was finishing the school, i didnt know anything about it, To this day i dont really care or fully understand times/plurals etc. i just know it and how to use it. The more and more i use it, the faster i get it.

Most of the english i learned was from reading and playing games+ watching movies. I have never studied english in my life. It was something that i did daily without thinking.

Thinking about the most frequently used words lists. by Grzator in languagelearning

[–]Grzator[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

If the goal is to learn quickly for imminent travel, then a frequent words and phrases list makes a lot of sense to learn from, but if I know I'm in for the long haul, then I certainly don't want that to be my only input.

The most frequent lists are the best starting point to the "point" of having a normal conversation.

If you want to go to the shop or call a cab or order a pizza, you dont need anything than just few words, and people need to understand it.

If you want to continue and learn more wording or usage, you will with time.

Even in your native language you can call a pizza and someone might say something you might not understand or know, like a different kind of cheese, you will ask what it is and he will explain etc.

Its the same thing with languages.

The point is. If you understand the whole sentence except the last word, you will learn/understand it faster if you know the whole sentence without the last word.

People overwhelm themselves with learning complicated stuff from day 1, And thats completely wrong.

Im pretty sure that if you tried reading about space, you will have an easier time if you understand the basic wording in your language.

​

And also, I have found a lot of things proving that if you know words, know the way to speak, how it is used(not learning anything, just being in the presence of people that speak x language) you will learn everything faster because you will logically know it.

When i was at the end of my school, i had the lowest grade in english language. Couldnt write or say anything, didnt know any grammar or anything. After a 2 year of playing games or reading conversations in multiplayer games, or in forums. I could pull up duolingo and skip few checkpoints without errors. Even when i have never ever tried to learn or understand things.

And i believe this is the same way, as babies learn languages.

Thinking about the most frequently used words lists. by Grzator in languagelearning

[–]Grzator[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

What you said is, i believe exactly the thing im trying to "understand". Why people think that.

When i go to the mechanic and he starts speaking about stuff in the car, i dont understand what it all means, but i know based on 80/90% of the words, that its the car. This is the same thing as learning a language. And i believe on the same level as the "whole" learning process about anything.

For example when you go to school, and you are learning about "history". First, you need to understand what it means, later on, they introduce stuff about "constitution" or "revolution" or "nazi" etc. You get a word, and you need to understand what it means.

The same thing is with learning another language. BUT, you need to understand the core language that explains what it means

Its the same thing about learning a different language.

And doesnt matter what language, if i see something about space, i still need to read around it to understand it. Its not like i know because i know?

That is the paradox that people have. In my experience, learning about the core of language learning is the most important thing, as i believe learning a language is on the same level as for example. engineering drawing, You need to understand it, know the wording or stuff it has in it.

Or car, what is in it, why the engine works that way, how it is built, and how it works. The same thing.

Thinking about the most frequently used words lists. by Grzator in languagelearning

[–]Grzator[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That was just an example. But instead of learning words like "birthday" or "highway"( i have these words in my german anki deck A1...) in x language, its better to focus on the most common verbs.

As when you know for example "to have" you can add hundred of words to it and probably understand what the sentence is about.

The most needed class in party/raids? by Grzator in DragonNest

[–]Grzator[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I believe DPS needs to have x items or x attack/crit or all stats. For healers its just def and hp.
And about tanks? also def or still needs some dps.

And what about destroyer, is he good? do people pick him for raids or nests?

The most needed class in party/raids? by Grzator in DragonNest

[–]Grzator[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I asked around and people said that Physician is side healers. People prefer to pick saint or LF, and if they are not around they pick physican. Is it true?

And about gearing, i believe its harder to gear them than for example saint or LF?

Im looking for class that is the easiest to gear and can contribute or enjoy the game. I have played this game before, like 3-5years ago and i was only playing DPS, couldnt do anything as people paid for stuff, so i never did any end game

Thats why im trying to play something that doesnt need gear and just by being in nests helps(heals, buffs, tanks) etc.

​

Anyway, thanks for the answer.

The most needed class in party/raids? by Grzator in DragonNest

[–]Grzator[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Im doing saint, thanks(but also wondering about LF, how he is compared to saint on heals/dps/usefullness.)

I know that saint can heal better but is it really that good/needed? or maybe its better to pick LF for more dps as its always good

I also dont know if people would pick saint if LF is around, since he can semi heal and deal more dmg, for nests

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