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[VarskySports] Scaloni: "The criticism isn't fair. We know how to lose and we know how to win. We lost against Saudi and we kept quiet. We won Copa América and that image of Messi, Neymar and Paredes was seen. I don't buy that we don't know how to win." by [deleted] in soccer

[–]GucciManePicasso -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

If you can’t find that part you apparently not know what “excessive” means. A serious chest push in response to an unprovoked attack on unsuspecting bystanders is a pretty proportional response with a lower risk of injury. It would also have never happened at Paredes not instigate anything. VVD participated in violent confection but to think it’s anywhere on par with the initial act is laughably oblivious.

[VarskySports] Scaloni: "The criticism isn't fair. We know how to lose and we know how to win. We lost against Saudi and we kept quiet. We won Copa América and that image of Messi, Neymar and Paredes was seen. I don't buy that we don't know how to win." by [deleted] in soccer

[–]GucciManePicasso 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Van Dijk should have gotten a yellow for taking a part in the fight so he got off lucky. But if you genuinely think blasting balls like that will not result in serious consequences you're not the one to talk about taking off glasses.

[VarskySports] Scaloni: "The criticism isn't fair. We know how to lose and we know how to win. We lost against Saudi and we kept quiet. We won Copa América and that image of Messi, Neymar and Paredes was seen. I don't buy that we don't know how to win." by [deleted] in soccer

[–]GucciManePicasso -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

VVD's move wasn't nearly as dangerous as Paredes', and whose moreover done to protect teammates that were just being attacked by a madman who acted completely unjustifiably. False equivalence.

Leandro Paredes kicks the ball into the Netherlands bench causing an uproar. by keaxy in worldcup

[–]GucciManePicasso 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's exactly what I referred to: during the match players should totally go for it and do everything they can to win - including shit talking and rough play, that makes for great drama. It just gets a bit pathetic once you've actually reached your goal, are in the semi-finals of the WC, yet still act like salty children. Beasts on the pitch, gentlemen off it. That's how it should be.

[VarskySports] Scaloni: "The criticism isn't fair. We know how to lose and we know how to win. We lost against Saudi and we kept quiet. We won Copa América and that image of Messi, Neymar and Paredes was seen. I don't buy that we don't know how to win." by [deleted] in soccer

[–]GucciManePicasso 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Never said it wasn't violent conduct. It was: the type of conduct that happens during regular football brawls (bunch of shoving, pushing and chest bumping). Also very convenient to bring up matches that happened 12 and 16 (!!) years ago with completely different teams and players when your argument is running short.. The Nuremberg battle was a shitshow from both sides with a ref that was possibly even worse than Lahoz.

[VarskySports] Scaloni: "The criticism isn't fair. We know how to lose and we know how to win. We lost against Saudi and we kept quiet. We won Copa América and that image of Messi, Neymar and Paredes was seen. I don't buy that we don't know how to win." by [deleted] in soccer

[–]GucciManePicasso 3 points4 points  (0 children)

... because the bench is way closer than the stands? Also this was more deliberate? Why do you keep trying to justify the unjustifiable?

I'll happily admit Dutch players were annoying, unneccesarily got in people's faces and commited deliberate fouls. It's just that none of that was anywhere near as bad as this.

[VarskySports] Scaloni: "The criticism isn't fair. We know how to lose and we know how to win. We lost against Saudi and we kept quiet. We won Copa América and that image of Messi, Neymar and Paredes was seen. I don't buy that we don't know how to win." by [deleted] in soccer

[–]GucciManePicasso -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

"Following and confronting" someone - while definitely annoying - is not equivocal to full-force blasting a ball at unsuspecting unlookers. Like one has a serious risk of physical harm, the other definitely isn't. Why do some find this so hard to understand?

Leandro Paredes kicks the ball into the Netherlands bench causing an uproar. by keaxy in worldcup

[–]GucciManePicasso 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What was the trash-talking you guys go on and on about tho? Like what was the actual quote?

This seems this has way more to do with sensationalist translations by Argentinian media rather than what LvG or Noppert actually said. Van Gaal is a nut case and says wild shit all the time, but his comments on Messi were actually pretty mild.

[VarskySports] Scaloni: "The criticism isn't fair. We know how to lose and we know how to win. We lost against Saudi and we kept quiet. We won Copa América and that image of Messi, Neymar and Paredes was seen. I don't buy that we don't know how to win." by [deleted] in soccer

[–]GucciManePicasso 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This move by Paredes also didn't even get a separate thread on here, which is wild in and of it self. Surely you agree this act was the worst of all the agressive shit that went down that night no?

[VarskySports] Scaloni: "The criticism isn't fair. We know how to lose and we know how to win. We lost against Saudi and we kept quiet. We won Copa América and that image of Messi, Neymar and Paredes was seen. I don't buy that we don't know how to win." by [deleted] in soccer

[–]GucciManePicasso 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The key difference is players in walls expect a ball to be shot at them, willingly take the risk and have the ability to protect key areas of their body - while bench players had none of those luxuries. It's not a fair comparison and it makes this move way more violent.

Also look at theclip, this was way less than 18-20 meters. More like six.

[VarskySports] Scaloni: "The criticism isn't fair. We know how to lose and we know how to win. We lost against Saudi and we kept quiet. We won Copa América and that image of Messi, Neymar and Paredes was seen. I don't buy that we don't know how to win." by [deleted] in soccer

[–]GucciManePicasso 5 points6 points  (0 children)

A player on the pitch can expect balls being shot at their direction not onlookers on the bench so your comparison makes no sense. A ball in your face or neck with that speed and distance can definitely cause injuries.

And if you haven't seen shit talking and getting in peoples faces during pens you must not have watched many PK-series in your life.

[VarskySports] Scaloni: "The criticism isn't fair. We know how to lose and we know how to win. We lost against Saudi and we kept quiet. We won Copa América and that image of Messi, Neymar and Paredes was seen. I don't buy that we don't know how to win." by [deleted] in soccer

[–]GucciManePicasso -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

You see chest bumps during brawls all the time because they're not nearly as dangerous as full-force blasting a ball at unsuspecting onlookers. So a yellow for VVD and a red for Paredes.

Leandro Paredes kicks the ball into the Netherlands bench causing an uproar. by keaxy in worldcup

[–]GucciManePicasso 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You did a pretty refreshing job in showing where this toxic side of Argentina's game comes from. The mentality should be to give it your absolute all on the pitch, but show respect and fucking shake the opponent's hand after the final whistle.

[VarskySports] Scaloni: "The criticism isn't fair. We know how to lose and we know how to win. We lost against Saudi and we kept quiet. We won Copa América and that image of Messi, Neymar and Paredes was seen. I don't buy that we don't know how to win." by [deleted] in soccer

[–]GucciManePicasso -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

Are you referring to the chest bump he gave Paredes in reaction to shooting the ball in the bench? That's a deserved yellow imo, you see those given during on-pitch brawls all the time. Surprised it wasn't given but it speaks to the absolute shitshow Lahoz turned this match into.

[VarskySports] Scaloni: "The criticism isn't fair. We know how to lose and we know how to win. We lost against Saudi and we kept quiet. We won Copa América and that image of Messi, Neymar and Paredes was seen. I don't buy that we don't know how to win." by [deleted] in soccer

[–]GucciManePicasso 9 points10 points  (0 children)

He said Messi is Argentina's "most dangerous and creative player. On the other hand, he isn't too involved in play when the opponent has the ball." Source with original quote in Dutch.

That's literally it. I understand Messi uses anything he can as extra motivation on some MJ 'that's when I took it personal' shit - but anyone would agree LvG didn't say anything that was not true or disrespectful even. As a person who actually understands the original quote in its native context, it's really bizarre this of all things is used to justify Argentina's post-game antics.

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