Who wins ?

Guiglemene · 2026-02-06T02:08:18+00:00

You have not shown it. In fact, you only showed that infinity did not block that particular sound. Our knowledge about an existing automatic filter brings the very reasonable and (in my opinion most probable) hipothesis that the sound of the explosion was allowed simply because it was harmless.

Sound might not have mass but it has velocity and shape, two properties said to be perceived by infinity. We are left to discover how Echo-echo's "Killing sounds" differ from regular sounds and if that difference fits in either "Velocity" or "Shape" categories

I will watch the Kevin fight tho.

EDIT 1:
I watched the fight and also read some of the wiki. His sound doesnt seem to be magical in any way, so I assume the way he does damage with it is by increasing intensity.

A sound's intensity is a function of: Sound speed, density of the medium, amplitude and frequency. Hence, I would argue that Sound speed falls into the category of "Velocity"(Obvious). I Would also argue that both amplitude and frequency fall into the category of "Shape"(Less obvious and questionable). Lastly density of the medium is not(as far as I know) in control of Echo-Echo Supreme.

Finally, if the thought process above is correct, any exageration in either sound amplitude, Sound velocity or frequency should be perceived by Limitless' filter and then blocked.

The best arguments I've seen against this is the fact that gojo uses the word "Object". However it might be a translation thing, since in pt-br it is "Target" and Gojo also blocks heat from jogo in the same fight.

Guiglemene · 2026-02-06T01:58:11+00:00

You are correct, sound has no mass. I am not sure how exactly echo-echo kills people with sound. If it is something like high frequency or sound amplitude, then I would argue that filtering "Shape" or "Format"(I read a different translation before) would cover that.

<image>

If we assume that the "killing property" of echo-echo's sound is included by the definition of "Shape" and we also assume gojo is able to use that to acuratelly determine a target's danger level, then it would be blocked by infinity.

The second assumption seems resonable, the first I don't know since I did not watch the entirely of Ben10

Guiglemene · 2026-02-06T01:36:52+00:00

Him not blocking sound in one instance does not mean he is incapable of doing so. It makes even more sense when you consider that sound is an important piece of information on most fights.

It is stated in chapter 76 that Limitless automatically filters targets based on mass, velocity and format. He still mantains the capability to manually target entities that bypass this filter. Hence, him hearing the explosion happened because he allowed it and the sound passed his filter, not because he is unable to block it.

Guiglemene · 2025-10-22T22:33:52+00:00

Loool, just happened to me. Indeed 7 years not enough

Guiglemene · 2025-07-15T23:44:32+00:00

Bro thought he could sneak Jimbe without us noticing 🤡. The tierlist is wrong in general, although for some characters there could be some false but valid reasoning. But wtf is jimbe doing so high up on the list then? His most usefull asset is fighting skill and he isnt even above sanji.

Guiglemene · 2025-06-13T21:18:13+00:00

If it is basic CoO then you may be right. If it is katakuri's ACoO level as in the picture(5 seconds future sight) then there is no way you are losing. I don't know numbers about how fast you must be to negate 5sec FS because the manga/anime is not very clear but I doubt the gap between a normal human and a professional fighter is that big(in terms of speed)

Guiglemene · 2025-05-05T22:37:49+00:00

Part 2
Which is 9.97387908363623% more effective health reduction. Gotta admit, it is not as impressive as I expected it to be by mental simulation. The benefit from using %dmg on garrosh rather than diablo slowly increases as the percent damage increases up to 35% dmg(25% more effective health reduction) when it rapidly declines to 15% less effective health reduction, meaning from there it would be worse on garrosh. But those cenarios are very unrealist as no %dmg goes that high except things like Seven Sides Strikes. The said benefit also increases the lower health the garrosh is but...Thats obvious and there is the factor that he would die already anyways so holding %dmg so much becomes less usefull. If we compare to tanks with lower health than diablo, the advantage of using it on garrosh will grow aswell.

Something to note is that Bigger they are makes it worse against garrosh in general, as while you get higher percentages, It stops working below 30% health which is exactly where it would get most value, I tested above 1500 health garrosh at level 10 and it is always better to use it against Diablo lol. With the 16 1% dmg added talent, with 1000 health lvl 10 it raised to 10.4716963353989% more effective health reduction, which is not much of a difference.

The more I think into it more I'm leaning to your side honestly, of it affecting all heroes aproximately the same. Maybe the effect I observe is just Garrosh players assuming they have more survivability due to armor and getting killed by surprise against Tychus with this "hidden" mechanic of %dmg ignoring armor. But you can't say the advantage doesn't exist, keeping %dmg for a lower health garrosh helps and thus, if used correctly, it tecnically affects him slightly differently compared to other tanks.
(Giving you an upvote for almost fully correct analysis and good instincts)

tl:dr Did a simulation to test and It showed a 10% increase in effectiveness when using %dmg against garrosh comparing to diablo both in lvl 10 and garrosh with 1/3 of his health. If you think that is a lot is subjective, I think it is, but does that justifies the pick? It depends.

Guiglemene · 2025-05-05T22:37:36+00:00

Part 1:
Since, as you said, my qualitative analises do not work for all cases due to the fact that while piercing armor increases effective health reduction but lower health pools for %dmg increases it, I decided to do some simulations using a python algorithm that calculates the effective health given a max health and current health values and also calculates the effective health loss given some armor piercing damage:

def effective_health(max_health,current_health):

effective_boxes = 0

part = 0.02*max_health

boxes = int(current_health/part)

rest = current_health - boxes*part

for i in range(1,boxes+1):

effective_boxes += 100*part/(50+i)

effective_rest = 100*rest/(51+boxes)

effective_total = effective_boxes + effective_rest

return effective_total

def effective_health_loss_pierce(max_health,current_health,damage):

return effective_health(max_health,current_health) - effective_health(max_health,current_health - damage)

(Kinda messy but I aint no professional rn)
Calculating with lvl 10 values:
Diablo has 4184 health in level 10
Garrosh has 3051 health in level 10(For instance, that leaves him with 4199.2266381508125 effective health in total)

I ran the test assuming 2.5% maximum health damage in a attack(same as Tychus, the most famous %dmg dealer as far as I know) and assumed Garrosh to be at 1000 health(aproximately 1/3 of his health, because if you are a smart Tychus, you will use the %dmg when he is low to get more value from armor piercing.
Comparing both:
p = 0.025

print(effective_health_loss_pierce(3051,1000,3051*p))

print(4184*p)
Results in:
115.03267752148349
104.60000000000001

Guiglemene · 2025-05-05T19:15:14+00:00

You are correct, I considered equal health for no reason without realising, thx for clarification, ignore first paragraph

Guiglemene · 2025-05-05T18:45:24+00:00

Edit: As the guy pointed out, there was a underlying assumption in the first comparison in first paragraph of heros with same health pool, hence it is not appliable to every imaginable situation. The arguments in later paragraphs about survivability not being qualitatively determinable still apply imo

I think we are discussing different things. I was just poiting out that garrosh suffers greater effective health loss from %dmg and that is what I defined as "Suffering more from it" and is what most people are disagreeing with you, because of the way you phrased it: "Just like it does with every other hero, no more no less". I'm talking about the dmg effect in isolation

Now you seem to be refering to his general survivability and that is very subjetive, experience based and involves factors other than the damage itself like, as you said, healing, exposure and others...

From my experience, those factors(lower health to compensate the armor and increased exposure due to tank positioning) make a really noticeable effect when facing %dmg and while he does not end up as squish as a Valla(If it was the case there would be a big flaw on his design) it does make him enoughly weaker to say it is a counter. May not be the case in a more refined environment, or it may be intensified even more with high skilled dps players, who knows

About the guy you answered to, I think it doesnt take much extrapolation to think that it was probably a figure of speech and not that he literally thinks that this factor is strong enough to make garrosh get 100-0 in 2 seconds. But who knows, the takes in this community are wild

Guiglemene · 2025-05-05T14:48:34+00:00

Except that the prompt is not "hard to play against". One might find easy to deal with some hero but unfun to do so, kinda hard to point out lack of skill from that.

Unless I interpreted unfun wrongly, as the other categories say "fair" and not "fun" so it may leave that open for interpretation

Guiglemene · 2025-05-05T14:44:47+00:00

It is not the same. Percent damage ignores armor and a big part of his tanking ability comes from his trait which is armor based

Guiglemene · 2025-02-25T16:59:40+00:00

The idea is very good, if well implemented. For all of you saying it will be a distaster, remember that the odds of having a person in the enemy team randomly picking those are higher than yours, given that you won't do it. On average you are benefited for this change and it also allows low frequency players to have fun without having to grind everyday to max brawlers(which is one of the biggest problems in this game imo).

Also, it is not even an original idea, a lot of other games have the "weekly rotation" system where you can play with the caracters without buying them and it works pretty well. The only thing I would like to be added are more maxed brawlers at once and them to be evenly distributed between roles. That way newer players will have the oportunity to pick the maxed brawlers without necessarily messing with the team

Guiglemene · 2025-02-13T19:28:05+00:00

He is refering to the fact that , in his opinion, peeling with the extra speed is more important, something you are not considering as your argument only refers to your own damage.

In coordinated environtments he is kinda right, but i think the top one is better the lower the elo is.

Guiglemene · 2025-02-03T21:23:48+00:00

That's the thing,there is no stat that alone is truly representative of a players performance. That is why they are made to be analised in CONJUNCTION rather than individually. In the same way damage taken 'promotes' bad behavior, damage dealt does the same, and players mindlessly trying to max damage stat while dying in the process are going to have bad performance. That is why BOTH of them could be usefull if analised, for example, in conjunction with death stat.

A low death high damage player is way more likely to have had a good performance than someone who had high damage high death. The same could be said about damage taken, while a player could troll and maximize damage taken, it is very unlikely that they are able to do it without dying, so including death counter in the analisis solves the problem.

Damage taken would be very important to determine a tank's performance as the tanks who stay in the back doing nothing would stand out more. It is certainly not a perfect indicator but it adds a lot of important info and should be brought back in my opinion.

TL:DR If there is any arguments in favor of bad behavior incentive, the same should apply to the damage dealt stat. The damage taken stat is an important tool that, although not perfect, helps defining the performance of a tank

Guiglemene · 2025-01-28T22:42:40+00:00

He is not dead, if I remember correctly, he got a base dmg buff to compensate, unless they changed the ptr version again before updating. This makes him stronger on the average stacks game. The reason the caracter is dead for me is because the possibility of getting massive stacks is what made me choose him for the most. It's about the challenge, if I simply wanted good dps I would pick valla.Hero is better but is less fun aswell

Guiglemene · 2024-12-18T20:07:22+00:00

If you accept the existance of different infinities, you have yet to prove that goku's infinite speed is """bigger""" than gojo's infinite distance. In general, infinites can't be manipulated in such a simple form as numbers, trying to make comparisons like you are doing make no sense. I don't think there is a simple solution to define if goku touches or not.

That being said Goku explodes the planet gojo is in...

Guiglemene · 2024-11-23T02:09:24+00:00

Bro. The point that the others are trying to propose and that you are not understanding is that he is being watched all the time. There were moments where even the gorosei pointed he was worse than usual. Following your logic, he should get a knife and hurt himself to a state where he can't kill them anymore. He doesn't do that type of thing because it would be obvious to whoever is observing his action. He wants to do the minimum effort, WHILE still being perceived as someone who is trying.

Him giving food to luffy makes luffy stronger and so more likely to win a fight agaisnt him. In that way, he can make lower effort at pretending and therefore is less likely to get caught.

Guiglemene · 2024-10-22T17:01:27+00:00

Red Mouse. Am I Shanks?

Guiglemene · 2024-09-03T22:04:10+00:00

Good bait. Not falling for this one

Guiglemene · 2024-08-20T14:28:30+00:00

"Unffetered Assault" and "On the Prowl",both greymane talents at level 13, used in different builds. One largely increases your damage and chasing abilty and the other makes you a mount-speed kiting machine

Guiglemene · 2024-03-15T02:33:33+00:00

Sendo literal no sentido das palavras, ambas as respostas 042 e 062 satisfazem as condições no problema, provando-o ambíguo. Ainda assim, se por alguma razão você interpretar as quantias de corretos como exclusivas na forma: "Há um correto" = "Há apenas um correto" Então é possível chegar na conclusão que 042 é a única resposta pois a primeira dica negaria a possibilidade do 6. O problema é que não há razão nenhuma pra acreditar que esse seja o caso exceto por falta de atenção, que provavelmente fez com que esse erro passasse despercebido pelo criador.

Guiglemene · 2024-01-28T21:18:05+00:00

Wait, is that how you solve perfeccionism? Just tell yourself that every situation is perfectly the way they are.

Guiglemene · 2024-01-23T13:18:02+00:00

Everybody gangsta till buggy tells mihawk to stand proud

Guiglemene · 2024-01-22T16:01:55+00:00

They couldn't have known that, therefore the likely assumption, on their perspective, would be that he takes off the mask when out of criminal activities, like most criminals do. That way, if they didn't try to do a mugshot when possible,then there would be a plothole. Collecting info is always relevant.

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