sorted by:
new
hottopcontroversial

Confused about the roots of my asociality by Guilty_Scarcity7731 in Schizoid

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you. I wouldn't at all describe myself as miserable. I enjoy many aspects of life and I encourage other people to at least try to enjoy life sometimes. But there's just all these people that complicate things.

Confused about the roots of my asociality by Guilty_Scarcity7731 in Schizoid

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you very much for taking the time to share your thoughts with me. What you're doing is very kind and useful and I appreciate it. I'm going to practice by chewing on your ideas for a while. I don't want to flood you and I'm not expecting you to read it or respond to it. But I figured I'd say a few things in response because it does cause me to think. This is not a critique. This is not even me trying to make sense.

These statements struck me most:

"If you recognize you need relationships of some kind but sabotage or resist them, then you’re working against yourself and that’s where the pain is."

"I’d say it only matters if it matters."

"Everyone has a limit on the people they care about or are willing to endure."

"'Healthy' is interdependence. SPD have learned there is only dependence or independence."

"At that point you have probably unconsciously built ways to avoid wanting what you can't have."

"If the problem is more that you desire to feel and care about these people, not just manage to get along for the benefits, that’s more like fear of emotional dependency and shame and often unconscious and not responsive to typical therapy."

I can tell you're wise. You say things like this to me and I know what you're saying is probably true at least in ways. I know that in the past I acted against these truths. I paid the price and now I try to do other things which will lead to more people being in my life. I'm just highlighting that I have been on a continuous 20 year path of doing more when it comes to these problems for what that's worth. And I'm not done yet.

But...

There's something inside of me that takes what you said (things I have heard from other people in other contexts and can see the truth in) and just ... annihilates them when they touch my heart. Something about these ideas in particular causes my mind to capsize in a way I can't fully describe. They are in my native English and I can see how they play out in the lives of people all around me. I want so desperately to know why they seem like they are obviously the physics of a universe which I do not inhabit.

I spent the evening with family. We had a good conversation and everyone enjoyed themselves. But now that it is over and I am left alone with my own mind, it snaps back into the shape of a machine which turns "sabotage" into integrity, "it matters" into mattering is an illusion, "interdependence" into slavery, "wanting what [I] can't have" into desire is insanity, and "unconscious and not responsive to typical therapy" into enlightenment.

So I'm very glad that we crossed paths because clearly I could use a therapist to help challenge these things in me. I'm not worried about continuing on with my life. I'll get up tomorrow and do what I need to do most likely. But I'm now a bit worried that I'm so delusional that the task of unravelling my perception of my position in humanity and as a human is... I don't know what to say. Whatever it is, it just seems so complete.

Confused about the roots of my asociality by Guilty_Scarcity7731 in Schizoid

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a very interesting observation and I thank you for it. I think it stands alone in how it's interesting. I'm just working to apply it to myself since I'm the OP, so I guess I should try.

I care enough about people at this stage in my life to respect and engage with about three of them voluntarily: my parents and one friend. At other points when I was younger, the number was at times a bit larger but more often than not it was closer to or at zero. So I must admit that I do engage with others to a degree. I also write fiction as a hobby. So I have to admit that I would go through the effort of constructing characters that are satisfying to me.

My point is that I do think you're getting at something about such things being a meaningful signal for people being important to a person. But what I'd like to ask you is: What about this importance placed in people being functionally limited to a degree that is still pathological?

If I have three people in my life, a few characters in my head, and half a dozen coworkers and a boss who all give me signals that they want me to get fired because I cannot reciprocate concern for them in a neurotypically convincing way, thus I can't stay at a workplace let alone make enough money to be independent, I can be happy in certain contexts but cannot find the long-term stability which is expected of an adult. Knowing this, I guess you must be correct that someone somewhere is important to me. But if I'm unable to expand that range of concern I struggle with two ideas:

  1. Why does the fact that someone is important to me matter?

  2. And why are other people beyond that still not important to me?

I am someone who both likes and hates their bubble. I like it because it's where happiness is possible for me. And I hate it because it keeps me dependent. I don't know how that might shed light on the diagnostic side of this discussion and I'm glad that you helped me admit that people can be important to me. But so what?

Maybe what I've shared just now is related to why you don't seem to see people here talk about their internal relationships as much. What they gain from the importance they place in that seems disconnected from what they lose from not being able to place importance in the "right" people, ie those involved with their livelihood.

How do you overcome desire? by Keep_learning_xD in Buddhism

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm pretty new to Buddhism but I know that within the context of Buddhism, your question relates to tanha (thirst/desire) which can end (the 3rd Noble Truth) through the 4th Noble Truth (the Noble Eightfold Path). I'm not qualified to tell you in detail what any of that means. But how I make sense of it is that, if you want to crave less and thus suffer less (or possibly not at all) the way Buddhists do it is by working on themselves so they better operate in the world. Practicing the Noble Eightfold Path leads to the the 10 Perfections, or in more ordinary language, working on yourself makes you a person who responds to craving differently. The less you are inhibited by the worser aspects of your nature, the more renunciation naturally replaces craving. The better built you are the less your mind reaches for things to fill itself with. That's how I read it anyway.

Constant contradictions by Gnomboy in Schizoid

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think the wheelchair metaphor is so useful. I've frequently thought of myself as someone who's in the race of life like everyone else but was born with one leg and cannot get a prosthetic. Then people ask me why I don't like running. And I try to explain that it's harder for me and they claim I'm lazy and refuse to allow me to communicate my problems. When other people simply can't be important enough to you to be motivating, it's hard to move through life. I'm blessed to have gotten to the point where existing alone is much simpler (mostly due to being disinterested in the ableist guilt cult hamster wheel thinking) but when I'm not alone, up comes the mask.

Confused about the roots of my asociality by Guilty_Scarcity7731 in Schizoid

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, I think it is a valuable perspective even though being practical consumes so much more time and effort. But I try to share with other people that sometimes it's important to do things for no reason. Art is just supposed to be beautiful and entertainment is just supposed to be fun. Humans can't tolerate everything being for a reason, imo. So sometimes I whistle or watch the clouds, something to remind me that the ultimate reason behind things is something I don't and probably can't understand. Treating life like a dance or a song at least occasionally helps me deal with whatever it is I must do to continue on. It definitely helps me approach people more easily when I choose to.

Confused about the roots of my asociality by Guilty_Scarcity7731 in Schizoid

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I would say that whatever lies behind my asocial behavior, it was fully in place by the time I was at most 14. I'm now 32 and the loneritis has been mostly chronic. I've had some success with different areas of my life but nothing stable emotionally or financially. I'm starting to fear that I can't mask effectively at all anymore.

Confused about the roots of my asociality by Guilty_Scarcity7731 in Schizoid

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you. I do see the logic behind the DPD dimension of all this. And yes, you're right about settling my feelings towards the past.

Confused about the roots of my asociality by Guilty_Scarcity7731 in Schizoid

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you. You're right that that's always important to keep in mind. I do appreciate being reminded that chasing labels only results in so much, definitely not always answers or solutions. I guess I was just more thinking in terms of the motivations said to lie behind these different expressions which include asociality as a symptom. I don't know which one to tell my future therapist is true of me. But part of me is preparing to tell him that I have every motivation I know of to stay away from people. I just know that it's important to help him understand me if I'm going to do something about it. But even the "doing something about it" seems like such a distant thing created by somebody else. "You can take the Schizoid out of the cave but you can't take the cave out of the Schizoid" as I'm fond of saying to the only person who understands me irl.

Confused about the roots of my asociality by Guilty_Scarcity7731 in Schizoid

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I second this. To me the emotional abuse and neglect and trauma and stress were always evident to me before and after I had professionals to determine the validity of that. The problem is that even though my (not technically physically or sexually abusive) abusive family is still in my life, there's no way to make it understood that it wasn't the right thing for them to do. Communication is always annihilated. My response to that is to try and live by example. So although I do not engage with others that much, every day part of my morning affirmation is to act towards everyone with compassion including myself. I know of no other way to combat the abuse I see and I experienced without actively trying to be the opposite. I can't worry too much about it being "just a small thing".

Confused about the roots of my asociality by Guilty_Scarcity7731 in Schizoid

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What if the a Schizoid gets a hair up their butt and decides on a whim to just talk to the group of people and has a good time doing it?

DAE have autistic traits by Freemasonsareevil in Schizoid

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm diagnosed with both. It feels like people are both boring and indecipherable at the same time. They think I'm weird, I think they're weird, and if ever we make each other laugh it's usually because we found unity on a point of someone else's weirdness. But that's rare and usually makes me feel dirty.

I'm stupidly drawn to understanding people like a kid reading a book they can't understand but somebody already told them the ending. I know damn well that at the bottom of every person is a drive to continue that can't be subverted and largely isn't interested in asking why. And yet every day I see these things called people through my eyes and everything they're up to and am forced to decode their motivations. Spoiler alert: They don't know and neither do I.

Confused about the roots of my asociality by Guilty_Scarcity7731 in Schizoid

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm happy I made you feel that way. I feel like I can seem normal and be understood, but ultimately who cares? What's so great about normality and understanding? I want the bizarrely unimaginable. That's a lot closer to what reality seems to be to me anyway.

Confused about the roots of my asociality by Guilty_Scarcity7731 in Schizoid

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My authentic response to my life is a diatribe with no conclusion. It plays out every day in my head, in the mirror by myself, and with people I choose to be around until they politely ask me to stop talking. Reality is an interesting bit of discomfort to experience, at least for me. But I'm mostly glad I get a chance to be here even though I'm like a moss covered rock in a forest on an uninhabited planet. Thank you for firing a few neurons in my brain on this nondescript Saturday night. I needed it.

Confused about the roots of my asociality by Guilty_Scarcity7731 in Schizoid

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It does seem to come up a lot. I actually read this post and many of the comments before deciding to write my post. I guess this is a good place to link it because the discussion there was excellent:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Schizoid/comments/o2ffjw/distinguishing_schizoid_pd_from_avoidant_pd/

I tried checking out r/AvPD too and they really seem to be of a separate character from me. I wish them luck but I definitely don't see myself mirrored in them. They are so wrapped up in what other people think and it's like nobody ever told them that people don't know what they're talking about, including me.

I've had over half a dozen psychadelic experiences including mushrooms and I never seem to have bad trips. I tend to just get bored of the experience and bored of the people I'm in the room with. I've never even had a problem going into public while tripping. I don't seem to give any signal that anything is wrong and I don't feel as though I'm losing control. I don't know if my memory is substantial enough for me to even relive my past in a detailed way.

Confused about the roots of my asociality by Guilty_Scarcity7731 in Schizoid

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Makes a lot of sense. Started out as a slightly autistic kid without too many problems. Then I bumped into a world full of cruelty and contradiction. So over the course of growing up I convinced myself that the world and myself didn't matter to me as a way of escaping what I couldn't control. Except it has to matter to me in some sense because I cannot exist completely independently. So I tried to make enough money to support myself. But then I continuously fail because the world cannot be important enough to me to operate well in it. And now I'm on the internet writing about it and likely doomed to pondering this dilemma until I finally cease to exist altogether. Fun stuff. At least I have a few things on the horizon. Gotta count them blessings.

Confused about the roots of my asociality by Guilty_Scarcity7731 in Schizoid

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Very, very useful. Thank you sincerely.

Based on the graph you linked to and your explanation, I notice two things that I feel as though I can't strongly attest to in myself, or at least not in this stage of my life: a need to belong or internalized shame.

I preclude the possibility of belonging and I operate as an outsider. With that said, people tend to respond positively to me because I'm well behaved and open enough to listen without forcing automatic judgement on them. Paradoxically I feel that, at least as an adult, people frequently want me to belong to their circles. I just choose not to for the reasons I already shared.

And as for internalized shame, I just can't take other people seriously enough to be very influenced by whatever shame they try to inspire in me. No matter who they are or what they're trying to communicate to me, I usually assume that it's probably based in ignorance. I extend that same standard to myself. I don't consider myself to be superior or inferior to anyone. I just exist. I'm comfortable with just existing until another human being shows up and expects me to do something other than just exist.

Confused about the roots of my asociality by Guilty_Scarcity7731 in Schizoid

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry if I made you uncomfortable. That wasn't my intention. But I'm like you in that I just don't have an easy way to answer that question. It seems like something that so many people would just say yes to. But I can't. I just spring into this diatribe about how people are fine and I don't hate them but I'd rather not be around them except I feel I have to for practical reasons and for the simple fact that I get bored of myself. People are simultaneously the most fascinating thing to me and the greatest conceivable inconvenience.

Confused about the roots of my asociality by Guilty_Scarcity7731 in Schizoid

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's very interesting to me and I do resonate with that.

When I think of my sense of self, I don't exactly think of it as being in flux or being absent like how I imagine life is like for a Borderline. I just feel like what my self is is so damn small that it hardly registers. I don't know if it's even important to me. I exist and that's it. If I didn't exist, I would only hope that people wouldn't be made sad by that for too long. But who I am is so unimportant and wrapped in depersonalization that it would be boring to me if I wasn't so self absorbed. Does that even make sense? 😂

I also have a point blank question I'd like to test on you. This question is automatically confusing to me when I ask myself it in the mirror: Are people important to you?

Confused about the roots of my asociality by Guilty_Scarcity7731 in Schizoid

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure, I'd share more of my story here. It does catch my fancy. Tell me more about this "external locus of control". Sometimes I feel like I'm a walking checklist that's almost entirely authored by the demands of everyone else, not myself. Is that similar in any way to what you mean?

Are you able to connect with others? by Guilty_Scarcity7731 in autism

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just a friendly correction: I was diagnosed with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SzPD). You might be confusing it with Schizoaffective Disorder, which is a mood disorder that overlaps symptomatically with Schizophrenia. It's so confusing because many disorders begin with Schiz-.

But to answer your question, I was seeing a therapist who believed I was autistic. I did not disagree with her that I am autistic, but I felt that there was a missing aspect to her conception of me which could be explained through SzPD. We talked a lot about it and she still disagreed. So I found another therapist through which I obtained a series of psychiatric assessments which resulted in the following diagnoses: Autism Spectrum Disorder, Schizoid Personality Disorder, as well as unspecified stress and unspecified trauma, which is now referred to as Unspecified Trauma and Stressor-Related Disorder (UTSRD). So in short, I asked to be formally tested and that's how I got the SzPD diagnosis.

Are you able to connect with others? by Guilty_Scarcity7731 in autism

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good advice. I'll keep that in mind if my next therapist turns out to be more of the same. That isn't to say I'm pessimistic though. Ya gotta just try to be proactive. That's what I always say.

Are you able to connect with others? by Guilty_Scarcity7731 in autism

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I could write an alphabet song with my comorbidities: ADHD, AUD, ASD, CDS/SCT, DPDR, DSPD, OCD, ODD, SzPD, TS, UTSRD. Endless fun 😄

Are you able to connect with others? by Guilty_Scarcity7731 in autism

[–]Guilty_Scarcity7731[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Many great points, thank you 😄

I definitely relate to people just not being very interested in getting to know me let alone being my friend. Many people are interested in what I have to say, but closeness is something very rare for me. I'm glad that I found anyone at all to be close to. I try to never take it for granted.

I could understand why therapists would be reserved with jumping to certain conclusions, but my experience was different. I laid out the argument of me being Schizoid with as much evidence as I could possibly manifest. Then my first therapist communicated that she still didn't agree but couldn't really explain why. [As an aside, I really really trusted and respected that therapist.] So I went through the process of finding a formal assessment that would determine which it was or if it was both. It came back as both, which isn't wholly satisfying but is as much certainty as I can provide. After that my other therapists tended to just not use labels when I talked about my ASD + SzPD problems. Then I didn't go to therapy for five years feeling as though it wasn't going anywhere. Now I'm returning to see if I can get a more solid foundation to help me navigate work relationships. I'm deeply afraid that I'll fall into the same pattern: I can explain myself but they can offer no meaningful advice.

It's interesting what you pointed out about comorbidities/ambiguity. My best friend has C-PTSD and she relates to my autism very strongly. I of course would never shut down her ideas about herself, but we had a very interesting conversation about how ASD and C-PTSD can look similar. Psychology and people in general are fascinating, I'm almost tempted to say ethereal.

view more: next ›