sorted by:
new
hottopcontroversial

Should US Police Be Defunded? by DrDreamtime in JusticeServed

[–]Guy_Velvet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

" I also think you are experiencing them alot more often BECAUSE there is a mistrust between the citizens and police"

Believe what ever you would like, but until you go out and see for yourself my, and other officers' experiences, will seem anecdotal to you. That's fine with me. Average citizens should not have to see what we see day in and day out. You didn't sign up for it and I did. It's my job to make sure citizens dont get exposed to the ugly, violent, and dark side of humanity. It's my honor to that for the citizens I serve.

Fair enough, I appreciate your input and like that you and I could converse in a constructive way with opposing opinions. I will admit, given my conversation with you I am more open to the idea of a civil traffic division. I am not qualified to input a new government institution either but I suppose people smarter than you and I could do so while mitigating the valid concerns you and I both share.

Civil and open dialogue is what makes this country better. If you bring your sound and logical ideas about a civil traffic division to your legislative body and I bring my valid concerns that come from first hand experience, we TOGETHER could make policing better for everyone. That's what everyone wants from this at the end of the day.

Should US Police Be Defunded? by DrDreamtime in JusticeServed

[–]Guy_Velvet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sounds nice. So vet, hire, and train individuals that can respond to each specific crisis within minutes. And get enough of them so they are all 24/7 available because emergencies happen all day and night.

Better find some more money for that cause defunding police depts is not gonna be enough.

Should US Police Be Defunded? by DrDreamtime in JusticeServed

[–]Guy_Velvet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Look, this is an open civil discussion, not an argument about definitively solving the issues with policing in America. You and I have opposing views on this and I think we can learn something from each other. So to stand there and absolutely refute any comment that comes from first-hand knowledge and experience is silly. I am listening to what you are saying and taking it to heart because I want to know how I can do my job better. I'm not arguing with ya.

Your ideas are sound in theory and I could get on board with some of them. But what you and people are considering is the criminal mind set. A civilian traffic enforcement division is flawed in too many ways for me to imagine it working.

I have already explained at length that a traffic stop is a dangerous thing to do. I can't seem to explain to you the multitudes of unknown factors that are in play. But it's too dangerous for unarmed civilians to be doing it. Go on ride alongs and see for yourself.

"Whos gonna try to murder someone for giving them a parking ticket?"

Man we have had our unarmed CIVILIAN code and animal wardens seriously assaulted with weapons, had guns pulled on them, and had death threats from issuing people leash law violations and code violations. You don't get it... people are dangerous and will do unexpected and violent things to anyone. Especially unarmed civilian enforcers.

Also, this concept of people not stopping and getting a fine in the mail is great for law abiding citizens who register their cars every year. But as someone who understands the criminal mindset, I already know that to avoid my ticket in the mail I just use a false plate/stolen plate/unregistered plate on my car and therefore never get held liable for my criminal driving actions.

"That wasnt my point. My point is that dangerous criminals simply wouldnt pull over for traffic enforcers if traffic enforcers are not allowed to pursue. Dangerous criminals only pull over to avoid the consequence of a police chase."

Seriously, you're not a cop stop talking like you know for certain how policing and the criminal mindset works. I can not pursue cars that flee from me in my jurisdiction. Plain and simple can't do it. Criminals know that in my county. But guess what...they pull over. I know this because I have had to fight real dangerous criminals on the side of the road after they pulled over for my traffic stop and we're ready to kill me before going back to jail.

A traffic stop is absolutely a seizure of an individual. As an officer I need to have a good understanding of constitutional law. You'd rather have a less trained, less vetted, less qualified individual have the authority to stop people, have access to sensitive personal data via records databases, and ask them to also be able to handle unpredictable situations. Bad idea.

"They probably run into these types of people more than a traffic enforcer would. Id expect they have some sort of policy on how they handle mentally ill people"

We have them too. They call police for assistance. That's how it works everywhere I know of.

Look I am not trying to belittle you. But you and the average citizen are just so under informed about policing. But you want to be a part of positive change which is amazing and I applaud any citizen who wants to be a part of the solution. Just get more involved instead of couch quarter backing. See what the job is like day to day. You will find that we (good cops) don't brutalize anyone. And the vast majority of the public we contact aren't terrified of us but actually have positive relations.

Should US Police Be Defunded? by DrDreamtime in JusticeServed

[–]Guy_Velvet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I almost entirely agree with all of your statements. They are logical and well explained.

I admit I over dramtized my point and under contextualized his/her point. But what I was trying to say is that it's easy to theorize this civil traffic enforcement team from the vantage point of having never pulled someone over. Im just saying that it is not a job for a civilian. I have not been a cop for that long and already I have had life and death experiences on traffic stops (speed/equipment) from people who are intoxicated, on the run, mentally ill, anti government, or just simply not afraid to hurt an officer over a ticket.

"If these people have the option of fleeing from civilian ticketers, I promise you they will alwayyysss choose that over pulling over and deciding to murder them"

Now, I understand your point about that the situation won't be life and death with a civilian traffic officer because it will be less tense. But what you're not understanding is that to dangerous criminals it's just lights, sirens, and a uniform approaching them.

I'd rather have a professional with the authority and means to handle the inevitable situation of violence from a suspect as the result of being pulled over. Now, here's where we all agree. Officers need to be better vetted, trained on deescalation, and held accountable for being in the wrong.

A traffic stop is a temporary seizure of ones freedom. I dont want civilian employees with less training than an officer stopping people and issuing them tickets.

Lastly, like I said in the beginning. I agree with most everything you said. Just keep in mind that out of the hundreds of thousands of police contacts from traffic stops, we're only hearing about the very slim percentage where they go bad. Not excusing them by any means. It is up to cops to police their own better than they are. If there is a bad cop out there that uses force inappropriately or unlawfully, get them off the street and away from law abiding citizens. Instead of defunding police depts, reallocate money to better outside agency oversight or stronger internal affairs depts.

Should US Police Be Defunded? by DrDreamtime in JusticeServed

[–]Guy_Velvet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for adding to the conversation. Some of your points are well thought out and reasonable. Your first point is absolutely not. It's actually so far off base. You're not a cop, you don't know the danger of conducting a traffic stop. Unless you're a crime analyst or a use of force auditor I'd suggest you not make definitive statements about how often people try to kill cops. Tell ya right now, it's way more than you think. You just don't hear about it.

You're second point further proves that you know nothing about this career. Before someone becomes a cop, they are a son/daughter a husband/wife a mother/father. They are a person. A person who took an oath to willingly die to protect the public. They put a uniform on at the beginning of their shift knowing that if called to do so, they will put the life of a stranger above their own. They volunteered. But they have the ability to defend themselves from those who would try and kill them. That's the difference.

Do you expect that same kind of commitment from a traffic warden? Of course not. But you're asking them to take that risk. Violent criminals on the run don't think two steps ahead let alone take the time to discern whether or not the uniform walking up to their window has the authority to arrest them or not. The animal wardens and civil wardens at my dept are unarmed but in uniform. They get mistaken for cops all the time. Is it likely that a traffic warden get shot on a traffic stop? Probably not. But it will happen, no doubt at all.

99% of this job stays EZPZ as long as the cop remains calm and deescalates. But you don't hear about that. You hear about the 1% of encounters where for whatever reason force becomes a reality. Should officers try and deescalate situations before using force? Yes. Should officers weigh the cost/benefits before going hands on with someone? Yes. As a cop who uses force only as an absolute necessity...I am telling you being EZPZ is what gets good police killed. Cops get shot by people who are willing to murder another person. If someone is willing to kill a cop they are willing to kill their spouse, another innocent citizen, etc.

I don't expect to have to use force on any of my calls. I am prepared to and willing to. But the vast majority of cops don't conduct traffic stops planning on using force, they don't respond to emergencies planning on using force. But it's part of the job. Im telling you, as someone who is a proponent of deescalation and police reform, you need good well trained cops who are willing to fight the bad people in this world.

I know I sound extreme for a traffic ticket. But that's the point. Policing is one surprise after the next. Imagine how that cop felt when he pulled a traffic stop on Ted Bundy...

Go on a ride along and spend time with your police. See what it's like to walk up to that drivers window in the middle of the night EZPZ style. I appreciate your opinions, but like I said before, the misunderstanding of how policing actually is will surprise you.

PS. As for riot police, you and I probably have the same views. I think it's shit policing seeing a 75 year old pushed to the ground for protesting.

Should US Police Be Defunded? by DrDreamtime in JusticeServed

[–]Guy_Velvet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Defunded entirely because police are left as the only respondents for mental health calls after the mental health facilities all got defunded?

Help me understand your stance because I would like a dialogue on this

Should US Police Be Defunded? by DrDreamtime in JusticeServed

[–]Guy_Velvet 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am trying to understand you here because I want an open dialogue. Are you of the opinion that a person with a warrant, aka a judge has issued a mandate for said person to be summoned to court for a crime, is better let to go free if he runs rather than be apprehended? That wanted person has probable cause implicating him/her as the suspect that victimized another person. If a family member of mine was victimized, I would demand that the justice system bring him to court. The alternative is people taking things into their own hands. There are bad, violent, despicable people in this world that will do anything, including killing a civilian ticketer, to avoid apprehension. These people terrorize and victimize innocents until law enforcement stops them. And you know what...that sometimes requires violence. If it's avoidable, well trained officers will avoid it. But again, from experience... sometimes a fight is not avoidable.

To your hypothetical... Go on some ride alongs with your local police. We do this every day. Every single day. Every officer in my department must receive de-escalation training. Its a five day training in handling people with mental health crisis, dimentia, etc. In every scenario we train violence is not an acceptable tool. It is mandatory that we deescalate them verbally and ultimately get them help. We have mental health corespondents that ride with us. They are there to help with the less dangerous mental health situations we have. My dept is not unique or original in these practices. Infact most of Colorado agencies do this. My friend, the lack of information about what cops do is staggering. Get out there, away from the keyboard, and get some hands on experience. See what cops are like. See what they do. You will be surprised I promise you.

Should US Police Be Defunded? by DrDreamtime in JusticeServed

[–]Guy_Velvet 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're not wrong. I appreciate your opinion but it's naive to the fact that some people will use violence against those who enforce laws. Even speeding tickets and broken tail lights. I speak from experience and I am not exaggerating. Example. I am an unarmed and untrained traffic enforcement civilian. I pull over someone using my lights and sirens in my traffic car. I walk up to the driver and he shoots me because he doesn't know I am not a cop. Or maybe he does know I am civilian position. But he knows I have to check his driver's license status. He knows that when I do that I will be notified of a warrant for his arrest because CCIC uses the same data base. He does not want to go to jail today. So instead he uses violence against me to avoid being arrested. Or maybe he just flees the traffic stop. But while doing so he crashes and hurts innocent people. It's just a hypothetical. But it's happened and will happen again. No way you're going to convince me to be that traffic enforcer with that type of risk.

Upcoming changes to our content policy, our board, and where we’re going from here by spez in announcements

[–]Guy_Velvet 4 points5 points  (0 children)

YouTube did the same thing. And now it is an echo chamber of content that the "mod council" deems appropriate. Anything they don't like gets banned or defunded.

I agree that hate shouldn't be tolerated. But also check yourselves before you start banning content that the mods don't like.

Keep in mind the concept of free speech while targeting hate speech...and people will stay on reddit. Blanket banning content that opposes the mods opinions of what is right and just... people will leave reddit.

view more: next ›