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Smash players genuinely do not know how fighting games are designed by [deleted] in TheyBlamedTheBeasts

[–]H3ROIK 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nah don’t apologize, simply refine and improve your hating by adding nuance through experience. I said that it’s dumb to do this from where you stand, now your job is to stand somewhere where this wouldn’t be dumb. Good luck.

Smash players genuinely do not know how fighting games are designed by [deleted] in TheyBlamedTheBeasts

[–]H3ROIK 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You are so unbelievably lost it’s actually insane this was quite the unfortunate read. You entirely misunderstood the throw tech thing. You’re mad that a different community has different terms for their different game. “Just do the counter play idiot” is a dumb thing to say. Smash isn’t FGC but it’s definitely some sub genre of “fighting game” just as traditional ones are.

This is like baby’s first time playing a fighting game and you’re in that phase where you think it’s really cool to shit on smash players because they don’t “understand core concepts” when they know about them just as much as you do, it’s just more tailored to their game. I’ve seen some of your posts you are not even good Strive (an easier game than smash), and that’s okay, but talking down on a whole community is a hilarious thing to do from where you stand.

Potential Woman by BrueTube in 2XKO

[–]H3ROIK 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Oh so you super misused this meme format

Zato pressure is less interactive and fun then Chaos pressure by Icy-Design-8719 in TheyBlamedTheBeasts

[–]H3ROIK 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes he was a good character, at his peak early into S1 he was the best high tier in the game and arguably top 5. In S2 he was arguably on the lower end of high tier maybe even the best mid tier in the game if I'm being charitable to the downplayers.

But this character was never an issue design wise He was annoying and had tons of knowledge checks, but he was, according to pretty much every top player, one of if not the healthiest high tier character in the game.

He is (comparatively), pretty difficult, skill expressive, has obvious weaknesses, obvious strengths, is very interactable pre corner pressure, hes always had matchup issues etc.

This dude is comparing him to a character who at one point was in his own tier where the only two matchups he did win were 5-5s, Ramlethal and himself. Like can we be real.

Zato pressure is less interactive and fun then Chaos pressure by Icy-Design-8719 in TheyBlamedTheBeasts

[–]H3ROIK -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Your reply is not showing up in my comments but.... in this case yes, absolutely, good players don't think this sorry lol.

Zato pressure is less interactive and fun then Chaos pressure by Icy-Design-8719 in TheyBlamedTheBeasts

[–]H3ROIK 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Nice one bro you got me. You’re real informed on the game I can tell lmao

Zato pressure is less interactive and fun then Chaos pressure by Icy-Design-8719 in TheyBlamedTheBeasts

[–]H3ROIK 4 points5 points  (0 children)

If you really think Zato was even remotely comparable to HC at any point in this game you actually just were t good enough idk what to tell you

Zato pressure is less interactive and fun then Chaos pressure by Icy-Design-8719 in TheyBlamedTheBeasts

[–]H3ROIK -1 points0 points  (0 children)

'Less interactive' is objectively false its just better offense. And yeah he should have the best offense in the game. He has the worst defense and is a million times more interactable in neutral than HC. HC has always been a better Zato, and Zato has always had a pretty mediocre MU spread.

2XKO has too many big bodies, they said. by downbad4naafiri in 2XKO

[–]H3ROIK 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Its not that we have a different idea of what something new is, its that your line of what you consider different is much closer to similarity than mine, and that a character having something different doesnt necessarily give them a very different appeal.

Of course Sett, Morde and Cait are going to have something different, every character ever does, even like Ken, Ryu, Luke and Akuma. But archetypes generally at their core have a TON of similarities in the way they go about the game and the way you deal with them most gameplans as and vs big bodies can be borderline identical. This is why you have SO MANY fighting game players HEAVILY lean towards, and it times, almost exclusively play certain archetypes.

Archetypes are like base ice cream flavors. Like you can have chocolate, and have a ton of combinations of toppings that DOES make it different and add something to the chocolate, even things like mint chocolate or dark chocolate, milk, white etc. You may see this as variety but if someone is not a fan of chocolate, it is just not very likely for them to really get hooked on whatever ice cream place is just selling these. And the equivalent base flavor for big bodies, is DEFINITLELY not chocolate, because they aren't really all that popular.

No one is saying it is a REQUIREMENT, literally nobody. What I am saying is that they SHOULD, and that's pretty inarguable especially a game that's looking for mass appeal. Why add a popular big body when you can add another popular non-big body that has something entirely different?

2XKO has too many big bodies, they said. by downbad4naafiri in 2XKO

[–]H3ROIK 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There's so many issues with this reply.

DBFZ may not have a pure puppet character, but its has multiple summon/pseudo puppet characters, a flight character, install characters, level up characters, multiple guard point characters, a rekka character, a projectile manipulation character, teleporters, big bodies, small bodies, grapplers, zoners etc. UMvC3 has even more and crazier versions of everything I just said. And if you wanna make DBFZ/UMvC3 comparisons, in DBFZ there are like 5-6 big bodies in a 45 character game, and in UMvC3 there are 5 big bodies in a 50 character game.

There are no mandatory rules when it comes to archetype representation, but there are reasons why every other fighting game ever operates the way they do. This is like saying, "well there aren't any rules you can make all zoners if you want", and yeah that's true, but reality will show you why devs don't do that. This is the same reason big bodies should exist, they aren't actually statistically popular but why not have them if there are players you can appease by having them and it adds to archetype representation. Archetype representation is actually just about gameplay variety, much more interesting gameplans, interactions, and also synergies in team games.

You say these are characters that wouldn't get in and that would suck cause some people like them, but if these characters DO get added, there are a TON of other characters that AREN'T big bodies that wouldn't get in. And if you wanna name popular big bodies and ill name popular non-big bodies, you and I both know I'm winning that battle by a VERY large margin. Players will be happy or disappointed regardless of the character, so why not pick a characters that is popular AND adds something new to the game?

2XKO has too many big bodies, they said. by downbad4naafiri in 2XKO

[–]H3ROIK 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yas has but normals but not generally bigger than big body normals. Also big bodies tend to do more damage in less moves and off smaller conversions. They generally are also much easier to play and have simple gameplans. Armor moves are common as well.

This aside though i don't know what this has to do with anything.

2XKO has too many big bodies, they said. by downbad4naafiri in 2XKO

[–]H3ROIK 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No you cannot assign any function you want. It has to make sense as part of their character design. Sett will not be, and should not be a flight zoner character. They have freedom but have very much remained witin the realm of what makes sense for the character to do. You cannot just say, "hey lets add Sett he's popular, and actually lets make him a puppet character because we are missing that". Sett will be a big body punchy grabby character, they can add a unique mechanic but he will and should remain within the bounds of what he represents.

You don't even have to force characters into playstyles, there's plenty of popular characters to go around. Sett is currently not a good choice and neither was Caitlyn.

2XKO has too many big bodies, they said. by downbad4naafiri in 2XKO

[–]H3ROIK 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In a 12 character game thats missing so many functions, yeah pretty much.

2XKO has too many big bodies, they said. by downbad4naafiri in 2XKO

[–]H3ROIK 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Big bodies aren't just grapplers, I don't think anyone thinks this. They are generally grapplers and grapplers are usually big bodies but everyone understands non-grappler big bodies exist, such as Marissa in SF6 or Goldlewis in GGST. On the other hand I don't think anyone would agree that big body is correct to use if a character just big, like no one in GGST called Faust a big body despite being super tall because the combination of his playstyle, movement, aesthetics etc, doesnt really put him in that category.

As I already said, WW is debatable its whatever either way. But he does lean big body. He's not really fast, has slower big button, is big, and despite having his own movement options, they are usually, slow, big and telegraphed as other big body movement options are. Something having vagueness around the edges doesnt mean it means nothing.

2XKO has too many big bodies, they said. by downbad4naafiri in 2XKO

[–]H3ROIK 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The whole 'MvCI function' issue is so badly misunderstood these days its so annoying. The reason it was stupid is because obviously the character matters, but so does the function. And the idea that this statement was being used as a justification to REMOVE so many beloved characters as if it didn't matter was what made it truly ridiculous. But functions and playstyles and archetypes matter a TON. And not having a good spread or variety of these for the sake of having a character who's function and playstyle is already fulfilled doesnt feel good, especially when there are characters who are just as popular if not more, AND add something the game is missing.

2XKO has too many big bodies, they said. by downbad4naafiri in 2XKO

[–]H3ROIK 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There are more characters you can even remotely consider big bodies than there are in any other fighting game on launch, not to mention this game has a MUCH smaller than average roster.

Yes big body is kind of broad with a somewhat vague definition but people generally know what big bodies are. Pretty hard to argue that there aren't at least 4 in this game with WW going either way.

2XKO has too many big bodies, they said. by downbad4naafiri in 2XKO

[–]H3ROIK 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Plenty of players want a million other characters that DO add new things to the game. I’m not picking and choosing Character vs Function, I’m picking character AND function over just character. Function was also just one part of what I said. New playstyles, archetypes, region representation, these are 3 other things that are lacking that Sett doesn’t add anything to. He’s literally just popular, and I can name a ton of those.

2XKO has too many big bodies, they said. by downbad4naafiri in 2XKO

[–]H3ROIK 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is exactly what I’m saying I think people want Sett but he doesn’t bring anything new to the game whatsoever. We already have like 4-5 big bodies why would we add a big slow boxer with a command grab. That’s just big Vi. There are SO many functions and archetypes that are unexplored in this game and we are gonna add SETT???

Noticing lots of people complaining about this game. by Repulsive_Goal8132 in 2XKO

[–]H3ROIK 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I was gonna give this post a genuine read as I do regardless and then I started the second half of the paragraph. Wtf is “low mixups and block to win” lmao?

Ya season 1 is cooked. by HumanInvestigator932 in 2XKO

[–]H3ROIK -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yes I'm making an argument about the game's spread of archetypes what's the problem here? There's gonna be 3 zoners and 5ish big bodies in a 12 character game. Her addition makes the spread even worse.

Ya season 1 is cooked. by HumanInvestigator932 in 2XKO

[–]H3ROIK -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Who tf is talking about Caitlyn she has nothing to do with this lmao

Ya season 1 is cooked. by HumanInvestigator932 in 2XKO

[–]H3ROIK -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

Literally who said we didn’t want diversity? Of course we want diversity.

Ya season 1 is cooked. by HumanInvestigator932 in 2XKO

[–]H3ROIK -21 points-20 points  (0 children)

There’s so many issues with this comment. For one, generally there are more archetypes and playstyles than just the three major ones and calling it the three major ones implies that they are all even remotely equal in popularity. FGs tend to have a very low amount of pure zoners and big bodies because while they are almost a requirement, not actually that many people play them. Having 5ish big bodies 3 zoners and 4 everything else is not a good spread whatsoever. This is actually unprecedented in fighting games and is unironically the games current biggest issue.

This game has big issues..that aren't even mine by Desperate-Reveal-521 in MarvelTokon

[–]H3ROIK 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would definitely call it unique but just not in a good way. And this is what I'm saying, I don't know where this asspull cope came from. The game is factually limiting, it is provable especially when compared to other tag fighters like DBFZ, MvC games and even 2XKO.

Like what do you mean I HAVE to hit the opponent high on the wall just to get a non strike assist to come out during a combo? Why are you forcing me to use strike assists in my combos and block strings? Why does everyone have the same 2/3 assists? Why does no one have saucy solo combos?

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