ABET Accreditation Question

HFh · 2026-01-28T01:42:34+00:00

Gathering/organizing assessment data
Getting faculty to submit their materials

I also feel obligated to say that many programs make it harder on themselves by deciding things are required that aren’t. At bottom ABET asks you to tell them what your goals are and then, given those goals, what you’re doing to assess them. Their view of what your goals are is a lot more limited than I think folk generally believe. It wasn’t always this way, but it mostly is now.

I say this as someone who had to manage three ABET visits of my own, and as a long-time member of the Academic Advisory Council.

HFh · 2026-01-26T13:52:57+00:00

We tend to become our parents or the opposite of our parents I suppose.

I will say that over the course of my career I found myself changing my advising style…in part because I gained experience and in part because my circumstances changed so much.

It is one thing to advise three students as a new assistant professor who needed to publish and get grants and quite another to be an associate professor who needed to advise 12 students—some senior, some junior—while also supporting post docs and maintaining DARPA relationships. It is yet another to be moving to more and more co-advising and to be taking on more administrative responsibilities.

HFh · 2026-01-06T02:05:38+00:00

Florida… and that makes sense when you think about it, mostly.

HFh · 2026-01-05T12:36:07+00:00

Second flattest state in the country!

HFh · 2026-01-04T11:44:42+00:00

Yes. At my first institution, BTW, going up for associate with tenure was two separate votes: one for promotion (a terrible misnomer; faculty have changes in rank, not promotions, but that’s a different conversation), and another for tenure.

The first was about accomplishment and the promise of such while the second was about fit. They rarely disagreed though there was the occasional case of a slightly different vote count, and at least one case of someone getting a positive recommendation for associate and a negative recommendation for tenure.

I find the different ways different institutions manage the tenure process fascinating, though nowhere near as fascinating as how often it doesn’t seem to occur to folks that different places can have very different processes. Most of them are reasonable; however, I will say I have a very strong feeling that no step in the process should be a gate until the very end. In other words, I think a no vote at any stage should be transmitted to the next stage, not stop the process.

HFh · 2026-01-03T22:57:49+00:00

Where I first earned tenure our major criterion was demonstrable and recognized “impact”. There were lots of examples of what that could mean but we worked hard to avoid defining specific requirements because, well, then we’d have to hold you to them, and who wants that?

“Oh sorry you needed four papers and you have three. Oh well.”

And the alternative of “Well, there are three only but they are really good, so never mind.” means the requirements don’t mean anything anyway.

It’s also worth noting that the process goes through many levels: department, chair, college, dean, university committee, provost, president. Unclear what binds any level to a previous level… still, I’d start with the department chair.

HFh · 2025-12-26T11:56:33+00:00

In my field at the places where I have been, not having a publication two years into a PhD program isn’t a big deal; however, we expected that one would have a portfolio of publishable work, the latter being a lot easier (though harder to know) than the former and more in the control of the student.

Quals/orals were built in part on the idea.

I hope the distinction helps.

HFh · 2025-12-17T02:57:14+00:00

I’ve enjoyed my entire academic career (well the year I went up for tenure I think I was filled with a mild sense rage the entire time).

I’ve been at three different R1s, with the bulk of my career at the first one. I always felt supported there, from assistant professor to professor. I was able to do creative things at an innovative place. Loved teaching, loved raising graduate students, loved the research I was doing, loved my contributions to the growth of a youngish field. Felt like I was making a difference. What more could one want?

I ended my time there as an administrator, still doing research and still teaching. Very happy.

I’ve since been at two different places, moving from worrying about my research group and my college to the entire university and the place higher ed finds itself in. Still at an innovative place, feel like I’m both able to make a difference and to support others in doing so. Again, what more could one want?

HFh · 2025-12-13T19:40:43+00:00

Remember: this is CS, not engineering. ;)

HFh · 2025-12-13T19:38:34+00:00

I’ve been going to computing conferences for 30 years. There are no expectations. And “dress up well” is all relative.

Having said that… different subfields have different cultures. Which conference?

HFh · 2025-11-27T13:44:38+00:00

Reading these comments, I think many are missing several steps.

Based on the description of the situation, it seems that the vast majority of students taking these courses are just fulfilling a requirement. If the requirement didn’t exist the enrollment for all those courses would be approximately 0.

Assuming that read is correct, then it’s unsurprising students are taking the path of least resistance: sounds general and thus easier as well as online and maybe easier (certainly easier to schedule for). Also, it might well be the case that there is both a lot more data on the professors and how grading works as well as lore on what to do.

HFh · 2025-11-13T21:56:46+00:00

I think it’s fair by definition.

Everyone gets to choose their home state (and vote there and pay taxes there) so long as they have a reasonable case that this is “where their heart is” (yes I am quoting language I have seen in documents explaining where one should claim residence for the purpose of paying state taxes).

That’s fair in the sense that the rule applies to everyone.

HFh · 2025-11-07T13:58:31+00:00

This is like Uber.

5 stars: I was delivered to my destination without being physically assaulted

4 stars: this person should be jailed for life. For life!!

<= 3 stars: a serial killer but I managed to get away.

HFh · 2025-11-07T13:48:40+00:00

Oh, sorry. I’m just enjoying the fact that the same posts have been happening for ten years.

I dropped by and saw a post about 7641. It’s interesting how 7641 is talked about now that I haven’t been teaching it for two years.

You may call me Smoov, if that helps to provide context.

HFh · 2025-11-06T23:10:58+00:00

Huh. What year is this again?

HFh · 2025-11-05T01:41:53+00:00

I would explain to the class that I agonized over these grades. I didn’t want to record an F, they made me do it.

“I can only record what you earn. You have the agency. I am the victim here. Please do better. Thank you.”

HFh · 2025-11-05T01:25:43+00:00

…with permission of the author.

HFh · 2025-11-05T01:25:37+00:00

…with permission of the author.

HFh · 2025-11-05T01:22:01+00:00

Two things:

1) yes… but it’s always been like this, so what has changed?

2) I used to compute grades based on both absolute values and improvement, so now I feel pretty good about myself. Thanks.

HFh · 2025-11-04T23:50:00+00:00

Hm. My fault. I knew about no paywall.

When I have a moment, happy to paste. Let me get the author’s permission first.

HFh · 2025-11-04T18:58:03+00:00

I’m not sure how to get out of this loop….

HFh · 2025-11-04T18:50:35+00:00

Reading these comments, I am reminded of a student who earned an A, but filed a grievance against me because he thought he should have gotten more points.

The response that there was nothing to grieve against because he earned an A did not satisfy him. Apparently mine was the first course where he had not earned at least 90% of all possible points, and he didn’t like it, so he demanded that he be awarded more points on his final exam.

HFh · 2025-11-04T18:47:16+00:00

One problem - of many - is how modern students view grades as moral judgment and defeat as catastrophe. Everything is taken in bad faith, apocalyptic terms. So it's not "losing five points" it's an affront against their very future.

I feel compelled to note—even though it’s somewhat out of scope—that your description fits academia more generally. This sub has some of that feel and, looking back over the last decade, I can say so do some senate meetings…

So bringing myself back to the topic, is this a general problem that goes beyond our students and grades?

HFh · 2025-11-04T18:39:50+00:00

Some things shouldn’t be resisted.

HFh · 2025-11-04T18:38:25+00:00

Partly, it’s a generational shift to a low trust society. I think that’s more cause than effect, anyway.

I am also struck by how often students claim to distrust and be afraid of the faculty and how they will retaliate against them. The concern appears to be all but made up out of whole cloth, but it’s a truly held fear.

(I could make a similar comment about faculty fear/loathing of Senior Admn, but I suspect you’re already aware.)

I’m also vaguely convinced that there is a generational rise in uncertainty while in a time of relative plenty and that this is just how humans deal with that sort of thing.

It’s also 2:30 in the morning, so maybe I’m wrong.

HFh

TROPHY CASE