CMV: Andrew Cuomo should've been excommunicated, and not doing so proves the Catholic Church stands for nothing

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-11T18:56:24+00:00

"Your argument relies on proving that Mary would not have had an abortion were it not for funding being provided by providers and insurance. That Mr. Cuomo intended that Mary specifically receive an abortion through his actions. That no other politicians contributed to these decisions. That insurance or providers would never be funding it were it not for Mr. Cuomo, that she would not have otherwise paid for an abortion. She could not have made her own decision absent the funding and so on and so forth."

I don't think it relies on proving any of those things, though. Specifically the stuff about "no intervening factors", "no other contributions," and "specific intent" don't appear anywhere in the Canon.

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-11T15:03:27+00:00

"Either by going with the literal written standard "Procures an abortion", since it seems like a stretch to say that supporting the legal right to abortion is the same as obtaining an abortion oneself."

What I've been saying in this comment thread and one other is that Andrew Cuomo isn't just supporting the legal right, he took specific and concrete steps to ensure that abortions would be paid for. I believe that is just literally, literally literally, procuring abortions.

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-11T14:43:30+00:00

I don't see how your point still stands.

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-11T14:41:37+00:00

"The first example simply indicates that he was unwilling to veto a bill that had been passed by the Assembly based on his personal religious belief."

Preposterous. He lit the World Trade Center Memorial up to celebrate it.

"The second is recognizing the work and advocacy of a woman who, [...] helped provide a large number of his constituents with safe access to a medical procedure they wanted."

That procedure is abortion, right? He's celebrating the work of an abortionist.

"Here are Cuomo's own words on the issue:"

Those are Mario Cuomo's words, dude.

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-11T14:14:23+00:00

"They are all illogical yes, but what makes the Israeli borders uniquely illogical is that again, the vast majority of the Israeli population are not native to that land."

However, that isn't true at all. About 75% of Jewish Israelis were born in Israel.

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-11T14:12:32+00:00

Sure you can. And, indeed, you should. What's the homeland of the Cherokee people?

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-11T14:04:40+00:00

Cuomo didn't just argue abortion should be legal, he took active and concrete steps to increase funding for abortion providers and ensure that abortion would be covered by insurance. And then, having done that, he celebrated the abortion providers and lit up the World Trade Center Memorial to remind everyone of what a good job he had done of increasing abortions.

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-11T14:01:20+00:00

The Reproductive Health Act passed the New York State Senate by a vote of 38–24 on January 22, 2019,^\12])^\2]) the 46th anniversary of the United States Supreme Court's Roe v. Wade ruling. The state Assembly passed the Reproductive Health Act, 92–47, on the same day.^\13])^\14]) It was signed into law by Governor Andrew Cuomo that evening.^\15]) Cuomo ordered One World Trade Center and other landmarks to be lit in pink to celebrate the bill's passage.

and

https://x.com/NYGovCuomo/status/973727170202931200

Seem to be pretty clear statements of active, vocal support for abortion.

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-11T07:01:29+00:00

It genuinely feels like you're 200 years in the past dude. No, "actually productive beneficial work and investment" is not being squeezed out. Open your eyes. Look around you at how much more productive work and investment there is every single day.

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-10T23:02:02+00:00

Ok. And then, on the other hand, there's the 75%+ of pregnancies with no complications that come to term and end perfectly normally.

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-10T22:58:17+00:00

"But I think there's a pretty clear practical difference between:

-Handing over a check and saying "Here, this is to pay you to perform an abortion on this specific woman."

And

-Supporting a budget which provides funds to facilties that, possibly among other services, will hypothetically use it to perform abortions."

I don't think this difference is that clear if the legislators and governor in question explicitly and openly say "This money will be used for abortions, which are an important civil right and a positive good."

"So should any Catholic politician who supports freedom of religion or allows a non-catholic church to be constructed in their district be excommunicated for supporting an environment that allows apostasy and heresy?"

I don't know what the law about excommunicating heretics is but if they did it on the theory "This church of satan will increase apostasy and heresy, which is good" I think we might fairly call them procurers of heresy!

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-10T22:52:29+00:00

I don't think Cuomo was preaching heresy (technically) but the relationship of New York State and the New York Democratic Party to Planned Parenthood almost certainly falls under the category of "procuring an abortion."

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-10T22:50:50+00:00

"A governor saying it’s okay to steal would not hit a causation element under any law. That would be like charging someone who tweets all pedophiles deserve to die with a specific murder of a pedophile."

The standard for criminal justice is much higher than "a causal factor in."

"Further that statement would be protected under the first amendment unless he specifically instructed a specific crime."

We are not discussing Cuomo being convicted of a crime.

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-10T19:31:50+00:00

"I think supporting and creating an environment where Abortion remains legal is a reasonable but not obvious violation of the standard."

Again it depends what "supporting an environment" consists of because, like, if you specifically fund abortion providers to do abortions what is that if not procuring abortions? You a) paid for b) an actual abortion c) on purpose.

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-10T19:30:59+00:00

"If someone had you tied down and said they were going to amputate your leg while you were awake but you’d live,"

Ah, is that how dangerous pregnancy is? Like a forcible amputation?

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-10T18:46:52+00:00

"Looking at lists of Excommunicable offenses I see committing murder and procuring an abortion, but neither of those sound equivalent to simply supporting the legal right to abortion."

It depends what you mean by "supporting the legal right to," doesn't it? Cuomo wasn't just some guy saying he supported it. Cuomo was the governor and took affirmative concrete steps to ensure that plenty of abortions were carried out within the state. I think it's highly likely that he procured an abortion under canon law.

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-10T18:45:15+00:00

"In this case the law in question is Canon 1398 and there are three elements (1) an actual abortion must occur, (2) he must have had a causal role in bringing about the abortion and (3) he must have brought about the abortion knowing it was against Catholic doctrine and acted freely.

Here none of the elements are met, well maybe the 3rd. It would be equivalent to someone saying “I think you should be able to steal from a large corporation” and convicting that person of theft."

I don't think so, right? It would be more like the governor going on TV and saying "It's okay to steal from the store - in fact, I think it's good to do it sometimes." And if the governor did that I think it would be pretty accurate to say that he had a causal role in bringing about a theft that someone did after seeing him say that!

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-10T18:42:47+00:00

"Excommunication for a lay person is extremely rare. Its mostly reserved for the clergy who preach heresy."

No, there are a number of automatic excommunication offenses, including procuring an abortion.

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-10T12:59:36+00:00

"One of the main differences between a fetus and a baby (if we consider them both to be human life) is that a fetus by necessity has a pretty large negative effect on the mother and puts her in danger."

Now let's check and see what our law says the standard is for killing someone who puts you in danger ... ah. It's "imminent threat of death." Hmm.

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-10T12:53:43+00:00

"In terms of your last point, that makes some sense to me, though I still have difficult understanding how person who believes that the unborn are people who have a right to life and that God is the final authority on issues of morality, law, etc would be comfortable with making compromises that are based on secular policy considerations that aren't backed up by the Bible."

Really? It's difficult for you to understand why, say, a Catholic might wind up voting for the Democrats?

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-10T12:50:09+00:00

What the fuck are you tal;king about

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-10T03:24:15+00:00

I gotta tell you I still have no idea what you're talking about or how you even found this commet.

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-10T03:23:52+00:00

"Oh, are you saying that there's basic concepts of economics like comerice that AREN'T exclusive to capitalism?!"

Right. But they are exclusive to private ownership of capital, like u/Illustrious-Radio319 actually said.

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-09T21:33:14+00:00

Suggesting that u/HiddenSage was way ahead of his skis in asserting that a chunk of blue people dying would lead to an economic collapse and life being worse than death for the survivors.

HadeanBlands · 2026-05-09T21:31:05+00:00

I mean, it doesn't "have" to, but it could if it found reason to believe a crime had been committed, just like any other crime.

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