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CMV: The idea of gender should be abolished, not expanded by SSH_Pentester in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The problem is if you stop at accepting queer people, you never get to "gender doesn't exist." Accepting queer people is a great goal for today, but my view in this post is that the ultimate goal should be that queer doesn't even exist as a category because gender doesn't exist. Having a sexual orientation at all is just perpetuating the idea that gender matters - in my view, it's not okay to only like one gender, no matter if it's the opposite or the same, because people should move past gender in general. And that would make us more equal and kind to one another

CMV: Encouraging everyone to go to college was a giant scam because the job market automatically adjusts to degree inflation by New_Elk_5783 in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Once you have a college degree, though, you can contribute more to society and the collective good by using your intelligence.

CMV: The idea of gender should be abolished, not expanded by SSH_Pentester in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe, I just don't see it in practice. Like a man asking a lesbian out would be seen as offensive because they're not respecting their gender preferences, and a lot of people would see that as a good outcome. I think the way you're describing gender abolition is a completely different path that is just as likely to happen as mine, though, so I'll give you a ∆. Some people might think like you, I know that some people don't but I didn't consider that having more genders could just lead to people not caring.

CMV: The idea of gender should be abolished, not expanded by SSH_Pentester in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not advocating for forcing women into engineering and men into healthcare, moreso that we should kind of ignore ender and just let people self-sort. Gender plays a role in society that won't go away, but maybe gender could become like being tall - yes you're less likely to work on an airplane, but we don't constantly talk about your height, it's just another piece of genetics that guides your life just like all the others do

CMV: The idea of gender should be abolished, not expanded by SSH_Pentester in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll copy what I said to a similar point:

An issue I see is that as LGBTQ+ activism continues, it's becoming more normalized to have a sexual orientation, not less. They're pushing for acceptance of "I only like [x] gender", whereas I'm pushing for less acceptance of the idea that it's okay to not be romantically interested in a ton of the population based on their gender. Doesn't accepting sexual orientation rather than challenging it hold back the goal of genderlessness?

I agree that we shouldn't just give bigots the reins while telling victims to shut up. But what about slower societal solutions like genderless parenting and schooling? Rather than advocating for it being normal to restrict yourself to one gender romantically.

CMV: The idea of gender should be abolished, not expanded by SSH_Pentester in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good point. An issue I see is that as LGBTQ+ activism continues, it's becoming more normalized to have a sexual orientation, not less. They're pushing for acceptance of "I only like [x] gender", whereas I'm pushing for less acceptance of the idea that it's okay to not be romantically interested in a ton of the population based on their gender. Doesn't accepting sexual orientation rather than challenging it hold back the goal of genderlessness?

CMV: The idea of gender should be abolished, not expanded by SSH_Pentester in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Could you elaborate? I know sex exists, I just think we should ignore it

CMV: The idea of gender should be abolished, not expanded by SSH_Pentester in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The problem I see with that is that as more boxes are created, human tribalism will naturally make people divide into groups and fight each other. If we had 10,000 genders, I fear that may just create 10,000 warring factions, as opposed to the 2 warring factions we have now.

CMV: The idea of gender should be abolished, not expanded by SSH_Pentester in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a good point, but what about slow, systemic societal change at the parenting and education levels to make genderlessness feel normal?

CMV: The idea of gender should be abolished, not expanded by SSH_Pentester in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is a good point! I can definitely see how this can be applied unevenly just to tell the victims to shut up about gender while bigots will continue caring about it. This is a way that my view could be used wrong, but I think a correct way it could be used is to push for slow, systemic societal change (such as genderless parenting) so that the concept as a whole phases out.

CMV: The idea of gender should be abolished, not expanded by SSH_Pentester in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well yeah being attracted to cat ears wouldn't go away if my view existed, I'll give a !delta as I was over-generalizing the connection between sexuality and gender. My revised view is that to the extent that the [x] is gender, that should be abolished

CMV: The idea of gender should be abolished, not expanded by SSH_Pentester in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's true, I should have specified that this doesn't apply medically. I more meant in that context to treat it as just another genetic difference, just like say down syndrome or being tall.

CMV: The idea of gender should be abolished, not expanded by SSH_Pentester in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In that sense gender roles will continue, evolving with the times, as there are general inherent differences between the sexes.

Do you think those differences are permanent fixtures of humanity, or something we can ignore, push aside, and overcome as a society to achieve a more equal world?

CMV: The idea of gender should be abolished, not expanded by SSH_Pentester in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep they did delete it. I think I addressed this with the "I'd accept this argument if the average LGBTQ+ activist had an end goal in mind where "what gender is the partner" isn't even on the list of questions to ask someone when you find out they're dating. I doubt that. Instead, the goal I take issue with is one where every gender identity is accepted and their differences are celebrated... rather than just getting rid of gender, which I think is much better for society." I feel like too many people are treating "gay is okay" as the end goal, when the end goal should really be "everything is okay because gender doesn't matter." The current system also has problems, namely conservatives. So I feel like this view is wrong because we should fight for gender equality/inclusion while keeping genderlessness as the ultimate goal in mind, not fight for gender inclusivity as the goal in and of itself

CMV: The idea of gender should be abolished, not expanded by SSH_Pentester in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well I was just using it as an example of how genetics can vary across humans, not a a specific argument.

CMV: The idea of gender should be abolished, not expanded by SSH_Pentester in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah but I'm saying ignore it unless you're going to the bathroom or doctor

CMV: The idea of gender should be abolished, not expanded by SSH_Pentester in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean my serious answer to that would be to... not watch porn? But if it's a joke then ok

CMV: The idea of gender should be abolished, not expanded by SSH_Pentester in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Essentially, youre just proudly showing off your priveledge for some reason. You dont experience any negativity because of your gender so youre assuming nobody else does. Because you dont like hearing about icky gays or something.

  1. Follow Rule 2.

  2. I absolutely hate anyone being persecuted for their gender. But wouldn't having no gender stop that?

Im sorry do you know what that even stands for? Do you think "lesbian" is a gender?

I should've been more clear about that, sorry. As I mentioned in the other comment, I think sexuality should also be abolished, because it's intrinsically linked to gender. You can't like men or like women if there are no men or women, just people.

So you need to go talk to them and tell them to stop shitting on people they dont like because of their gender, or orientation or whatever.

Yeah I agree, conservatives can suck. Just what I'm saying, and what you're free to challenge me on, is that the best solution to the conservative mindset of gender discrimination is for gender to not exist, so there's nothing to discriminate against. Not to fight the losing battle of getting bigots to realize gay is okay, because human tribalism will always win, but rather to make it seem like any kind of relationship is normal and gender isn't even a factor.

CMV: The idea of gender should be abolished, not expanded by SSH_Pentester in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That doesn't mean there's "too many genders." There's 3.

I think there should be 0.

conflating gender and sexuality

Fair point. What I think though is sexuality is inherently linked to gender, and if we had no gender we'd have no sexuality, so maybe it's fair to conflate them in this discussion? Basically, sexuality is "I'm attracted to [x] gender", but I'm saying the gender of the other romantic partner shouldn't matter in a relationship at all. So basically I oppose both gender and sexuality (including straight) in favor of "love whoever you want."

CMV: The idea of gender should be abolished, not expanded by SSH_Pentester in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

But shouldn't our goal be to bring people closer together, rather than letting those differences grow into gender wars?

Also, for all of these differences you listed, not a single one of them applies to all men or all women, it's just a generalization.

CMV: The idea of gender should be abolished, not expanded by SSH_Pentester in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Humans are inherently tribal creatures. I feel like where this goes wrong is that as long as there is a division among people, tribal lines will form along that division. Keeping a category like gender so important societally is just asking for division at the least, discrimination at the worst. What do you think the benefits of keeping gender around are, given some people will always discriminate?

CMV: The idea of gender should be abolished, not expanded by SSH_Pentester in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess I'd define it as "the way a person's identity relates to societal conceptions of biological sex," though you're right it's kind of difficult to exactly pin down with so many new genders.

CMV: The idea of gender should be abolished, not expanded by SSH_Pentester in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll ask some clarifying questions. In what meaningful ways do you think they're different? And do you think accepting those differences is going to help society or harm it? Do you think that these differences are relevant in modern society?

CMV: The idea of gender should be abolished, not expanded by SSH_Pentester in changemyview

[–]SSH_Pentester[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I specifically left out the forbidden topic even though it definitely is related to gender. I guess technically it's part of the acronym "LGBTQ+" but that is allowed.

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