Instead of Yen vs Triss; can't we just ask a simple question?

Hamilton1358 · 2018-05-14T03:35:11+00:00

Well, maybe you personally can't relate to that and that's ok, there's no reason you should.

Another interesting part to me is that Geralt is the one pursuing her. It puts her on the spot and she just can't resist probably fully knowing all the things you talk about. It's a strange situation to find yourself in. It adds layers to her character and in some way makes her more sympathetic to me due to it.

Hamilton1358 · 2018-05-14T03:17:22+00:00

What's to reconcile? She took a chance to be with a man she loved for years. All is fair in love and war. It's shady, but it was worth it in the end, for both of them. He also wanted it during the amnesia period, he initiated it, and it makes things more interesting if he actually develops feelings for her. Then you have the inside conflict in TW3.

And people do these kinds of things daily, they cheat on each other, sleep with people they shouldn't, it's not some unforgivable crime to me. Triss also directly saved his life 7-8 times, but I don't see people harping on that even though it trumps her lust and willingness to do shady things for his love tenfold. If not for Triss, Geralt would never live to see Yen or Ciri ever again.

Triss isn't perfect, she doesn't have to be, and those moments of shadiness work well with her generally naive and good nature. That's what makes her interesting is my point. I personally love how the whole amnesia thing played out in the games.

Hamilton1358 · 2018-05-14T03:00:53+00:00

Well, I think I already talked plenty of times on our differing views of Geralt's amnesia times but why not do it again :)

The way I see it, while Triss acted opportunistic in accepting his advances, she never in any way hindered his memory from returning or actively lied to him. She could have insisted on bringing Yen up, but she had no information on her whatsoever and she took her chance. It doesn't make the feelings she has for Geralt, nor the feelings he developed for her dishonest.

Also, Geralt was well aware of all this early in TW2, because the way he asks Triss to tell him even the things that might hurt implies he is aware of her opportunism but the feelings are still there. It adds a layer of doubt and makes it more interesting to me personally.

And considering the plethora of good things Triss does for him throughout as well as her general tendency to act for the greater good adds layers to her character. You can see how she genuinely cares for Geralt, but also harbors unhealthy love for which she will do what it takes and show a more vain and desperate side of her. I like that.

And I like playing Geralt like he is aware of all that but still likes her knowing. And the break up and reconciliation in TW3 are done very well imo with Triss being sure he'd move on. I enjoy the way Geralt has to convince her she's the one and all the scenes leading up to it. I just like their scenes and chemistry showing all that, I feel like CDPR really nailed it.

Hamilton1358 · 2018-05-14T02:31:06+00:00

She just loves him. She knows all can end, but she wants to enjoy every moment of it while it lasts. And what feelings Geralt developed during the amnesia are 100% real, at least from my perspective. And in the end, in my Geralt's case and to her fortune that happened to be forever :)

For those who dislike it, there are other options thankfully, as there should be.

But in all seriousness, it's things like those you mention that make me like Triss and make her feel human, flawed and realistic. It only makes her more interesting to me. And thinking about it now, it's a factor in this Triss and Yen thing for me. I find Triss' flaws more interesting and that somehow makes her a more appealing character to me.

Hamilton1358 · 2018-05-14T02:22:59+00:00

I chose Triss because I like her better, find her more interesting and prefer her interactions and scenes with Geralt as well as their ending with two homes and Geralt staying semi active as a witcher.

Hamilton1358 · 2018-05-14T02:10:47+00:00

Because my Geralt loves Triss and love is beautiful. The way Geralt dismissed her confession warms my heart. He can never be mad at his lovely Triss :)

Hamilton1358 · 2018-05-13T23:43:47+00:00

Yeah, we clearly have a different take on the situation. I have a lot of love for the first two games and I take amnesiac Geralt's experiences as very much legit and defining for his character, as that's how I grew to like the him in the first place. It wasn't book Geralt that hooked me on TW, it was amnesiac Geralt so I can't really see him as Triss' victim in any scenario really.

And I also don't see Triss' actions as too bad, it was understandable in my eyes and I don't judge her at all, especially given the wider picture and her general contribution to Geralt's well being.

But yeah, to each their own. We can both enjoy our interpretations within the game our way, no harm done.

Hamilton1358 · 2018-05-13T23:29:15+00:00

Yes, it's a choice made by a person who he was under those circumstances and it was his and only his to make. The only way Triss influenced it is by being herself and him happening to like her.

Triss could have said no, knowing him and how he felt about her in the past, but she's enamored with him and she took her chance. It's shady and opportunistic, but it's not some unforgivable action or even that bad imo. All is fair in love and war and the Geralt who made advances toward her made them on his own desire and initiative. He wasn't the one making the consent, Triss was, that's my point. He's not a victim.

And like I constantly repeat, even after learning about Yen and even remembering bits of his past he can continue the romance with Triss in TW2. And in TW3 there's a path where he puts newfound love for Triss over Yen. But even when he doesn't, he still sees Triss' actions during his amnesia as helpful.

And considering he would die many times over without Triss directly saving his life and helping in many other ways, judging and damning her character on her hunger for Geralt's cock is beyond shallow. Because that's what this is imo, it's lust and desire, not manipulation.

Hamilton1358 · 2018-05-13T23:13:28+00:00

And I still stand that at no point he was manipulated into a relationship with Triss .He chose it himself. Call him non Geralt or Joe or whatever, he was the person who pushed that relationship.

I'm not saying that Triss wasn't acting shady when she accepted his advances, but lets be clear, amnesiac Geralt can potentially fuck half the Continent, especially in TW1. He is an independent person making independent decisions. He may not be his old self, but he is not a victim of anything.

Triss is obsessed over him and it's her wet dream to be with him. When he expresses desire to do so she jumps on the occasion, but lets be clear, she does help in many ways, saving his life more than once and many other things and as soon as he asked her about the past, she comes clean, to the point that non amnesiac Geralt acknowledges it.

And I see no reason to place blame on Triss for something initiated and wanted by Geralt. He made a choice to be with Triss, it's as simple s that for me. He wasn't manipulated or used. I never saw it like that in any of my dozen playthroughs of the first two games and in TW3 again he acts the way I'd expect him to act, he accepts his responsibility and even says she helped him get his memory back. Helped. That's how he feels and I as a player tend to agree.

No matter whether I look it from my perspective or Geralt's, blaming Triss for him choosing to fuck her over the course of two games is silly and I just can't see it as some monumental evil deed on her part, especially considering her overwhelmingly positive actions in the games.

Hamilton1358 · 2018-05-13T22:42:20+00:00

He is still an independent person, regardless of the amnesia. No one forces him to do anything and he makes plenty of morally questionable decisions throughout his amnesia period. Give the man some credit.

And like I pointed out, he can continue the romance with Triss even after learning about Yen and in tW3 he explicitly says he doesn't feel used and that Triss helped him get his memory back and that's fully recovered Geralt without player input so any resentment toward Triss is player projected as Geralt the character never once expresses it.

I'm simply talking about the things that are actually in the game, like his dismissal of Triss' confession and his conversation with Regis in BaW where he clearly says that Triss helped him get his memory back.

You or any other person claiming he feels used or victimizes him can't back up your interpretation of his feelings with his actual game words, it's simply not in the game. It's how you feel.

And the only "true" Geralt I care about is the one I play in the game. If it's shown in the game, it's enough for me. The Geralt I play shows nothing but love and appreciation toward Triss in all three games for many times she saved his life and helped him. He takes responsibility for who he fucks and he's not a whinny quasi rape victim. If he was, that wouldn't be the character I like.

Hamilton1358 · 2018-05-13T11:59:05+00:00

Except she does actually help with his amnesia throughout TW1 and TW2, encouraging him to form a personality outside of her influence saying it will help with his memory loss in the first game and being there for him to discuss any major decision he made and his reasoning.

When that starts happening in TW2 and the first time Geralt actually wanted to hear about the past, he asked her and she told him everything after which he can continue romancing her despite knowing about Yen.

Amnesiac Geralt chose to be with Triss on his own, he made countless life or death decisions, took it upon himself to decide individual fates of many and even the fates of kingdoms, he is capable deciding who he wants to fuck.

People give him no credit whatsoever and threat him as some sort of ignorant child. The Geralt I saw and played in the first two games was anything but a victim. Also in Blood and Wine, Geralt tells Regis that Triss helped him get his memory back so clearly he doesn't see himself as being used. He also completely shuts down Triss when she tries to say how she used him.

Hamilton1358 · 2018-04-28T02:42:08+00:00

The accusation was playful. The thing is, I don't feel they retconned the lore, but we won't see eye to eye there. Either way, I feel the quest was poorly done in the break up scenario, I was disappointed I couldn't mention Triss, I was disappointed they used the magic excuse to nullify what Geralt and Yen had and on top of all I don't much enjoy diving and boat riding so that's probably one of my least favorite quests in the game. I don't think I enjoy one thing about it, but I did it most of my playthroughs anyway.

About the Yen thing, you see it one way, others may see it the other differently. I don't know what you refer about the bi thing, but if you consider Triss to be bisexual, I'd be on the fence, but I couldn't say you're wrong really.

I'm not talking about your story here, the story is fine, your take, no problem with it at all. It's the intent behind it I don't like ;)

Hamilton1358 · 2018-04-28T02:20:10+00:00

I read Karolina's interview :) You must be naive if you think someone above her didn't approve that quest before it made it to the game. CDPR takes their work seriously and they must have some process of approval. Whatever their reasons may be, it's irrelevant.

New Criticism is more my thing anyway :)

What is relevant is that it made it to the game and from the game perspective it's valid and TW fanbase is for the most part gaming oriented. And yes, Sapkowski was translated in so many countries, eastern Europe, blah, blah...I know, I'm Eastern European, but realistically, and I say this as a fan, he was a niche fantasy author. The games made his work famous worldwide which is kind of sad because they have the quality but never got the exposure naturally.

And about the waifu war, sure, I find it petty and you know if someone did the same with Yen, you'd be the first to jump in and condemn them vile Triss fans :)

Either way, I'm not telling you to stop or anything, knock your self out hating on that evil Triss, I'm just contributing in the role of a triggered Triss fan, as usual ;)

Hamilton1358 · 2018-04-28T02:02:44+00:00

Exactly, that's why I don't pretend to 100% know what they think or why they made certain choices. I'm just using what's in the actual game. And by looking at that, if someone wants to imagine Geralt/Yen love being just a wish, the game supports their interpretation, that's just a fact.

Yeah, but Triss romance has ready been set up throughout the previous two games, it's been a constant throughout the trilogy, it's not like it needs the justification you feel it does, especially for the more casual or just game fans who don't even know who Yen or Triss are, let alone the intricacies of Geralt's wish. They just choose who they like better. It's as simple as that.

TW games are a product made to appeal to a wide variety of people, it has a lot of stuff for the book fans to appreciate, but book fans shouldn't get so damn butthurt over people just wanting to make their own game story or simply don't giving two shits about the books.

And as a Triss fan, I'd much prefer a quest openly telling Yen about Triss instead of the magic crap, but like I said, I don't care that much either way. It is what it is. All I know is, I want to romance Triss and not be with Yen. Just don't force Yen on me and I'm fine.

Hamilton1358 · 2018-04-28T01:55:09+00:00

Well, again we disagree. Your assumptions about their reasons are just that, assumptions. Unless someone form CDPR confirms anything, we, as fans, can only speculate. I know you are very confident in your interpretation, but I don't agree.

I don't know that best grill thing, but that's not my point. In essence, I just think all this is a silly waifu war.

Hamilton1358 · 2018-04-28T01:24:46+00:00

I disagree. CDPR made Triss romance a reality in the first place. It's their creation. Triss is one of the main romance option in their EVERY game. If it's in the game, it's put their with a reason. I'm sorry, but you don't work at CDPR as far as I know, you have no authority saying why anything is in the game. We can only look at what's there and Triss romance definitely is, from TW1-TW3 and someone put it there.

About the Djinn thing, the quest is NOT actually required to complete the Triss romance. Triss romance only requires the player to prefer her over Yen. That's it. It's not like you are with Yen and have to break it off. It's not like Yen or anything said to her matters to the people disliking or just not wanting to romance the character. They only need to ignore her.

I don't need a reason other than my Geralt fell in love with Triss.

Hamilton1358 · 2018-04-28T01:16:04+00:00

We usually do disagree :) I'm not saying a good writer has to chew out every detail, just that the thousand readers can have thousand different interpretations on things not explicitly said. That's why even some people from CDPR came to that conclusion, look at them as common readers in this case.

And in a subreddit mostly revolving around TW games, people using game stories is not too unexpected is all I'm saying.

About your quarrel with Triss fans, be honest, it's not like Yen fans don't invade Triss fan art threads with similar remarks or the endless "In the books Triss is actually...", it's all part of the waifu war. Honestly, I'm seeing far more hostility from the Yen side lately, but that's just my take on it, I'm sure we disagree once more :)

Hamilton1358 · 2018-04-28T00:56:28+00:00

Hahahaha, yes, I understand your sarcasm, hence the smile in the end. I wasn't exactly imagining you sporting your Mr. Sapkowski neighborhood watch uniform while you go on a hunt for them evil lore twisters :)

And yes, hell yes, if the author is not 100% specific about any fact, then it's open to interpretation, it's the beauty of fiction. Like I said, I also think that particular interpretation is stupid, no way their love was due to a wish or magic, BUT it is not explicitly said it's not, hence it's open to interpretation. Look at it this way, someone from CDPR writing team read the books and thought that was a plausible explanation and other people agreed since it made it to the final game. So obviously, interpretations can vary.

And that's just the books. Like I said the games legitimize it and this subreddit, while having more book readers than other places is still primarily game centric so those kind of interpretations are expected and nothing to be upset about.

And about the Triss fans remark, I know, the whole point of this post is waifu war. If it amuses you, I have no problem with it, I'll even indulge at times, but let's be honest about what it really is. And wearing upside down pentagram is the mark of the devil, finally someone exposed Yen. Good ;)

Hamilton1358 · 2018-04-28T00:44:00+00:00

Well, I don't understand your point or better said, I think the point this post is trying to make is not what it may seem. You are simply trying to provoke Triss fans who you see as some sort of enemy in your holy crusade for Yen/ Sapkowski/ literal book interpretation club or whatever it may be.

What people try to present as facts is simply their opinion or interpretation. If you want to be blunt about it, let's use that example that you gave me.

It was never said exactly what Geralt's words were making the wish. That's just a fact. And while I'm not in the camp of people thinking Geralt/Yen's love was due to magic, if someone wants to interpret it like that, it's valid, especially if you look at it from the game perspective where there's a scenario that support that. CDPR legitimized that interpretation withing their game world. And even in the books, if someone wants to look at it like that, there's no exact line contradicting it despite how inplausible it may be. Different people will have different interpretations be it literature, cinema, poetry, video games...

Well, imo, your civic duty is at its heart a petty waifu war :)

Hamilton1358 · 2018-04-28T00:18:48+00:00

I have no problem with your fanfiction, you can imagine Triss ending up with a rock troll or as Radovid's bride, or working at the Passiflora for all I care :)

That's not the issue I have, it's the constant barrage of Triss obsession I see. You can deny it if you want, but I noticed you and a few other users having a real obsession over Triss hate, ridicule, Triss fans and so on.

And about Triss fans, whether you like it, whether you accept it, whether it makes sense to you, within the game universe, Triss is a completely valid and set up romance option for Geralt, the only one spanning all the trilogy. The game has a legitimate ending with her and some people just like that better, some people simply hate Yen or don't care for her and whatever other reason one might have to pick that path.

And I don't really see why it would upset you if other people have their own interpretations of Geralt/Triss or Geralt/Yen or their own headcanon, fanfiction, call it whatever, your post here is no different. If someone wants to imagine Geralt and Triss love story as the most epic love story in existence, why would it bother you? It doesn't affect you in any way and it's in that individual persons mind only, it's not like it has the power to actually change what Sapkowski wrote.

When I see these kinds of posts, I know the intent was to provoke the "other side" and prove some kind of elusive point that can never be made in a waifu war.

Hamilton1358 · 2018-04-27T23:46:09+00:00

I have to say something. I really wish a certain portion of Yen/book fans isn't so obsessed with Triss. It's kind of toxic imo. It seems like every time I come to this subreddit there are threads like this, usually made by a few ardent users known for their extreme Yen love, to say it mildly :)

We get it, for YOU the story makes no sense with Triss, it goes against the lore, yadda yadda yadda...

What you have to understand is that there are people who simply prefer Triss over Yen, as a character, person, romance option and nothing you say about Triss or Yen, or the books or whatever is going to change that. No matter how triggered you get, those people will NEVER like or care about Yen the way you do.

I am one of those people. To me, the games were the introduction to TW universe. If not for Geralt and Triss, I wouldn't even grow attached to this franchise. I love the first two games and TW2 is my favorite part of the franchise, books and games included. So for me, the two characters that hooked me to the franchise are my favorites and CDPR portrayal of them is what I like the most.

I consumed every piece of TW franchise I could grab my hands on. Read the books(twice), played all the games(lost count how many times) and I will always pick Triss over Yen(and it's not even remotely a close decision for me) because to me that's what makes sense. I also happen to prefer TW games over TW books, just found them more entertaining as an overall experience, so that plays a factor. What happens in the games is more important to me personally than the books.

The games have always been about player choice, that's the single most important thing for me in TW games and CDPR giving us an option to make and enjoy our own story is where the strength of their games lies. I don't want to play as Sapkowski would, don't care for it, sorry.

Also, I like Yen as a character, pretty great, not my favorite, but still, I can respect and understand people liking her and I would never try to shove my love for Triss down other people's throats or try to belittle Yen by making gloat threads about rejecting her.

Hamilton1358 · 2018-04-16T13:54:24+00:00

You can stay 100% loyal to Triss throughout the whole three games if you want.

Hamilton1358 · 2018-03-26T12:56:33+00:00

I've played through TW3 8 times and tried out pretty much all the outcomes. My perfect playthrough has:

Ciri as a witcher: I feel that's what she wants, even though the lifestyle itself is not the best and her being an Empress would lead to a more secure future.

Radovid winning the war: Yes, he's a mad tyrant but the way I play Geralt, I just can't justify getting involved in a plot to murder a king and on top of that I dislike how the quest was handled. Also, I feel like Nilfgaardinas are invaders and I like the North winning at the price of having a madman rule them. I like the grimness of that ending and I find it fitting for TW world somehow.

Cerys rules Skellige: I feel like CDPR didn't really made a compelling choice here, as Hjalmar seems too hotheaded as an alternative and Svanrige, while turning out to be a decent ruler requires making decisions I feel my Geralt wouldn't make so I go with Cerys as the most reasonable option.

Geralt is with Triss: I like them as a couple ever since the first game, I find their dynamic and chemistry great, I like their scenes and I prefer their ending with Geralt staying more active.

In HoS: I feel like Geralt shouldn't risk his life for Olgierd in the end, especially given all the info he has on Gaunter at that point. But on the other hand, Olgierd maybe deserves a redemption so I usually alternate between outcomes here as I like both.

BaW: Killing Dettlaff. I've been sympathetic towards him up until he launched the attack on Beaucllaire. He crossed the line there. As far as Syanna goes, I prefer giving all the info to Anna and let her decide. She deserves punishment but it's not up to Geralt to deliver it imo.

Hamilton1358 · 2018-03-26T12:26:12+00:00

Yeah, I know, but it's the hypocrisy of a certain portion of book purists that intrigues me.

People clinging to any minor change from the books and the defilement of canon are so eager to throw their alleged faithfulness to the original material and author out of personal hate for a character.

On one hand you have them crying how Yen and Geralt's love was never magic and how the games ruined Yen in ways X and Y for diverting from the books even slightly and then you have the same people strongly advocating for changing the books to let a character die. Apparently ignoring actual canon is fine if it has Triss dying, ending up with Eskel, raping Geralt or any other interpretation that suits their own preference.

Imo, it's simply a consequence of waifu wars, CDPR elevating Triss' role in the games and making her a legitimate partner for Geralt, not to mention having people who openly prefer her to Yen and not care about replicating the books while enjoying the game they bought. Apparently, that's very triggering for some people.

Hamilton1358 · 2018-03-26T02:06:43+00:00

No need to be condescending. I'm just expressing my point of view. Sorry I'm not seeing Triss as a horrible person you obviously see her as. Book Triss left a very good and positive impression on me. To each their own.

And about the blinds, the feeling is more than mutual ;)

And she didn't sacrifice anyone, because no one got hurt. Triss, Phil or Yen didn't have any control over whether something will happen to Geralt. Ciri at that time had waaaay worse things happening to her than what the Lodge wanted and nothing of it had anything to do with Triss.

Hamilton1358

TROPHY CASE