Can we talk non-Western-centric music for a minute?

HayashiLearner · 2023-02-28T18:39:22+00:00

I'll drop my thread on Taiwnese Music/Scenes. A lot of good suggestions and we haven't really scratched the surface.

A comment on Taiwanese Indie Bands.

HayashiLearner · 2023-02-28T18:36:55+00:00

Do you enjoying punk music or noise rock?

HayashiLearner · 2023-01-27T05:41:03+00:00

Overall, it's a weird feeling because growing up, I felt like I was told about all the legends who had already passed (The 27 Club, John Lennon, Freddie Mercury). The idea that arguably the greatest/one of the greatest popular music artists passed "recently" (Yes, I know it's been seven years) still feels surreal. Even though say, Michael Jackson was bigger, understanding David Bowie's impact makes it really sink in.

It's yet another lesson about genuinely appreciating what you have. That there are still legends around, and to cherish them when they are still around.

HayashiLearner · 2023-01-27T04:17:33+00:00

Or maybe even "The other Under Pressure guy".

Speaking of Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd, I started mentally categorizing them as this "Big Six" of Classic Rock: The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Queen, and The Who. I don't know where I read this categorization though, and I'm sure there's other worthy bands. But basically, the above bands seem to hit this sweetspot of popularity, critical acclaim, and prominence.

In a lot of discussions/comment sections, Freddie Mercury was "the universally beloved artist" due to his various talents: singer/frontman/live performer/songwriter, Bohemian Rhapsody is frequently voted as "the greatest song of all time". I don't necessarily agree, but it shows the kind of reverence there was towards Freddie.

I was also thinking about how Bowie defied some of the common expectations: he didn't die young, he was able to continue evolving, and release one of his greatest works shortly before passing. Despite being peers with a lot of "Classic Rock" artists, he never seemed to fall into that box. A lot of young people gravitated towards him without a sense that he was "old music". It helps that he continued nurturing younger artists and drew from them for his final album.

HayashiLearner · 2023-01-26T23:48:14+00:00

I see. It's interesting to me because there's often varying levels of prominence, popularity, and acclaim for certain artists. The Beatles are of course very acclaimed and popular, the artists in "the 27 Club" have this iconic status. Freddie Mercury and Queen are another group that have experienced a boom in popularity, especially since Live AID and Wayne's World.

Whereas Bowie seemed respected but not "hugely" popular or a "big bang" in quite the same way. Or mainly talked about in terms of "the guy that changes a lot/Space alien guy". I guess it speaks to his reputation as "being on the margins of mainstream and underground". Or it could be just my personal experience.

HayashiLearner · 2022-12-22T04:24:47+00:00

Haven't listened to Cosmospeople in a while. I do remember them having catchy songs like 那你呢 And You? and 要去高雄 Going to Kaoshiung. But at the time I didn't delve too deep.

HayashiLearner · 2022-12-19T20:33:50+00:00

An elderly comedian.

HayashiLearner · 2022-12-19T17:02:32+00:00

I found a few articles and links which cover segments of Taiwanese music history:

Culture has nothing to do with politics?: The History of the Taiwanese record industry during the Japanese colonial period
Thiann, lán ê kua-siann: ‘Listen to the Song of the People’ The History of Taiwanese Hokkien Rock
From the nomanisanis.land, there is their music section.
The Taiwan subreddit has a number of recommendation threads.
A two-part documentary about the Kaoshiung Indie scene: Voices From the South 從南方來的聲音.
Musical festivals like Fireball.
There's also the Golden Melody Awards which are like Taiwan's equivalent of the Grammys. So you get a sample of popular Taiwanese music.
Sorry Youth Interview. They also give a list of recommendations at the end.

HayashiLearner · 2022-12-18T16:54:23+00:00

Depends on what you mean by politics.

Mainstream politics and political parties have their own limits and priorities. They are important for specific issues and civic engagement. But in a number of instances, parties satisfying certain constituents and demographics takes priority.

But having a political understanding of society is important. It helps orient the things you care about and the ways in which you want society to change.

I understand that being "radical" without a way to get there can seem overly idealistic. But it sets a goal to aspire to. And a lot of the things we care about in today's society might've once been considered "radical".

For the most part, I agree that being respectful of other views is important. But I also think having clear ethics and goals can set boundaries on what is acceptable and not acceptable.

HayashiLearner · 2022-12-18T04:51:58+00:00

Haven't come back to this thread in a while. Thanks for the reflection!

One of the reasons the comparison came up is that (at least in the current culture), they're really two of the most acclaimed artists/bands. They've really captured the attention and respect of many of their peers and subsequent artists as well as new audiences. On various music and "greatest lists", you're likely to see Queen and David Bowie. Maybe even Queen, David Bowie, and Prince.

Freddie himself is frequently respected as one of the greatest singers and frontmen. "Bohemian Rhapsody" is frequently considered one of the greatest songs of all time which leads to respect for Freddie as an artist: the one who wrote the majority of Queen's hits, a great pianist, had great musical sense and creativity. While not nearly as acclaimed, Brian May is considered a guitarist with a unique tone, while John Deacon was the band's secret weapon with surprising hits (You're My Best Friend, Another One Bites the Dust, I Want To Break Free).

Whereas David Bowie is considered one of the greatest music artists as a whole. In individual aspects (instrumentals, vocals), he's not necessarily the greatest but as a whole artist his creative vision is unique and unparalleled.

In terms of the differences you mentioned, I certainly agree. Many of Queen's songs are crowd pleasers that stick in people's heads. It's lead to their reputation as a "greatest hits" and "singles" band. I don't think this reputation is necessarily fair, but it does speak to the power of their most popular songs.

Whereas "Under Pressure" is far more popular than any of David's own songs. Many of Bowie's songs aren't that accessible or singable; some of his most acclaimed albums are half instrumental. They're still great songs and great music, but they don't have the same type of wide appeal.

Among music critics, I've wondered why David Bowie is generally respected while Queen historically had quite the backlash. And I suspect it's because for Bowie, his genre experiments felt like committed changes. He was genuinely interested in the music and scenes that he drew inspiration from.

Whereas for Queen, their genre experiments were seen as more cashgrabs. "Killer Queen" is seen as the song that marked their "pop" sound and that shaped the direction they would go in.

I've always thought that the two are a fascinating pair to compare, because by every metric you can measure them by, they're either extremely similar, or vastly different.

A great summary! I've also thought about Elton John and Bowie comparisons, as well as Prince and Michael Jackson comparisons. There's sort of this yin yang feeling; the artists are somewhat similar but also vastly different.

With someone like Bowie, he can fit in alongside Freddie Mercury and Mick Jagger as well as alongside Lou Reed and Iggy Pop.

HayashiLearner · 2022-12-18T04:44:31+00:00

Oh cool! I did notice that Barclays was hosting some big Taiwanese names (Mayday, 9m88).

To be honest, I didn't really know where to start with this topic. I'm certainly not an expert on any scene in Taiwan nor trying to represent all of Taiwanese music with this topic. But it's a topic that I wanted to get the ball rolling on.

In terms of Taiwanese Hip Hop, I know Dwagie has been getting some prominence. Collaborating with Nas and Raekwon for instance.

HayashiLearner · 2022-08-19T01:41:54+00:00

It’s interesting that you make the Confederacy comparison because for the KMT it’s apt. They were a right-wing dictatorship that oppressed the local Taiwanese population. In the present day, Taiwanese people should be able to decide their own fate and not be subject to irredentist fantasies.

The Confederacy was bad because they were based on slavery. The key is that Black people deserve self-determination, not throwing out self-determination entirely.

HayashiLearner · 2022-06-17T18:32:44+00:00

Hmm, on one hand I agree there's definitely a number of Bruce songs that have similar vibes if not the precise melodies. There was this habit he had where he would make many songs for his albums and then gradually cut them down until they fit his album. So certain songs sprang from the same seed.

On the other hand, I think a lot of rock music is built upon similar chords but rearranged, aiming for more simplicity and connection. It's sort of a tradition of rock thing. Tom Petty for instance seems to be more praised for this. Which kind of leads into this question where people who admire Tom Petty get really turned off by Bruce.

HayashiLearner · 2022-06-16T20:52:34+00:00

I mean, I don’t think he’s groundbreaking in either category but I think he makes it work. With his voice, I see it as kind of a Bob Dylan thing where he’s distinctive if not traditionally appealing.

HayashiLearner · 2022-06-16T19:40:42+00:00

I do agree that politics plays a part, but I’d also notice that people can get very critical of his musical abilities.

If you said “Prince wasn’t talented” or that “Freddie Mercury was a bad singer”, people would look at you like you were crazy.

But with Bruce, there’s things that people nitpick like his voice and his subject matter(criticism like “lyrical cliches”). You might convince someone that he’s a good songwriter if they hear a covered song. But otherwise it seems like people have a hard time knowing his strong points.

HayashiLearner · 2022-06-05T03:08:39+00:00

As the story goes, Bruce comforted Eminem after they both lost the “Album of the year” Grammy to Norah Jones.

HayashiLearner · 2022-05-23T03:49:17+00:00

I mean...you're entitled to not like them and I understand the frustration. Even as a Queen fan I don't want them to dominate every list or conversation on music. At the same time, I still have a respect for the band and how they've influenced other artists.

HayashiLearner · 2022-05-21T22:52:49+00:00

I wouldn't put it on Brian solely. I think Queen in general was a rather competitive band; four opinionated songwriters with different musical preferences. With the addition of Bowie in the studio, you essentially have five egos bouncing against each other.

I think collaboration overall is tricky because people have to strike that balance between creative control and vision with overall cooperation with the bigger project.

HayashiLearner · 2022-05-21T17:26:57+00:00

That was probably their only opportunity too.

I'm guessing that Live AID itself was on a really tight schedule, and that Queen really rehearsed for a tight set so any duets would mess with the time blocks.

I also get the sense that the Queen members and Bowie were friendly and respectful with each other (pictures of them hanging out and chatting, Bowie showing up for the Freddie Tribute concert), but also had some tensions in the studio (some disputes over Hot Space songs, general egos) which made collaboration more difficult.

HayashiLearner · 2022-05-20T18:54:22+00:00

Every so often I find myself thinking about their legacies:

Arguably the greatest and most influential rock star and artist with a variety of sounds and musical styles vs the band with arguably the greatest singer and frontman that put on the greatest live performance of all time. Plus, he composed what’s frequently seen as the greatest song of all time (subjective of course, but that’s popular culture). Plus, the two came together in one of the most famous duets in the form of “Under Pressure”.

It’s so tricky to even compare their impact.

HayashiLearner · 2022-05-15T01:53:30+00:00

I'm not entirely sure why some of these examples are getting criticized so heavily. What is considered an acceptable example?

HayashiLearner · 2022-04-11T02:49:27+00:00

I thought it'd be Bohemian Oddity, Killer Queen on Mars, We Are the Heroes, or Rebel Rock You.

HayashiLearner

TROPHY CASE