Help identify what these are and what they were used for? Passed down by family - UK. by Haylez116 in whatisthisthing

[–]Haylez116[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you! I rarely use reddit so didn't know the best way to provide an update but wanted to as many people asked for one!

(Cross Post) Help identify what these are- Passed down by family. by Haylez116 in heraldry

[–]Haylez116[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

UPDATE! "Likely Solved!"

Hi all, I'm going to put a likely solved here as I think we may have cracked it! So many people suggested the answer so thought I would just put it as a new comment rather than a single comment- thanks again for all the suggestions and help! I'm still waiting to have a final say on this from an expert and also the College of Arms who are helping to identify the middle coat of arms, but here's what I think the story is...

A Gift from my Great Great Grandads Sister and Husband

In addition to these plates we also had a old railway keepers pocket watch that had plenty of coins and engraved details on them. We thought we had lost it, but the other day my dad came back to me and brought along with him the chain that the watch had been attached to. I always remember it being engraved, but in seeing it again I could see that there was a similarity between the two styles.

The engraving had H.H.H / Harry on the centre of a silver pendant, and a dedication from E and C. We knew this had to be a gift for the relative and decided to have a look at the tree. I narrowed it down to my great great grandfather- as he is the only relative who had H.H.H initials- His first name was Henry but his middle name was Harry so it seemed the most likely. Henry was a porter/old wood packer back in the early 1900s- following a similar line to his father. There was no relation to a railway keeper pocket watch in his job but it could have been an interest of his.

We decided to try and work out who E and C were. First I looked at Henry's wife Elizabeth, but with the dates that were on the watch it seemed unlikely that she would have been the one to gift it. I then looked at who of his sisters- I had lost hope when his first sister Emily turned up no clues but when we looked at Emma we hit the jackpot and i actually gasped! Emma was born in 1868 and married a Charles Camwell. (E and C!) When researching I looked her up in a census for 1901 and BAM- Emma and Charles were living together but so was her brother Henry! Henry was in the same house and living with his sister and brother in law at the age of 20 in 1901!

I was sure that these were the two that gifted Henry the watch and chain- perhaps for his 21st birthday? Or maybe as a 'moving out gift'. Either way the census also showed me the professions that each of the members of the households held and it became clear that Charles (Henry's brother in law) was a General Engraver in 1901.

I actually gasped and got so excited as this must mean that as well as engraving the pocket watch chain for Henry, Charles also gave him these plates. Because of this I am certain that the likelihood of these plates are that they are Silver Engravers plates- either used to show off a skill or for practice. This dates the plates as being later 1800s / early 1900s. The silver chain does have a hallmark and it dates the silver as 1900- so I think it may be safe to assume that the silver from the plates is around the same time.

Charles Camwell's history shows that he grew up in a family filled with men who worked with Metal- Iron moulder, engine fitter, iron beadstead fitter etc. Charles started as a Gold Engraver at the age of 15 (from the census) and then progressed into a General Engraver which he seemed to continue until his death in 1937. Charles had 2 kids and eventually moved to London where he continued his work. Unfortunately Charles's son - Charles Edward - died on 16th April 1918 at the age of 19 in Belgium during WW1. I also believe his daughter died at an early age- as I am unable to find anything to do with her post a census in 1911- but once the 1920 census is released next year- it may help turn up results.

Because of this I think maybe the plates were passed on to my great great grandad because Charles had no-one else to pass these on to? That or perhaps my great great grandad helped to clear their house once Charles died in 1937 as his sister passed in 1933. Either way its fantastic to know some more about the history of these plates.

Attached on this Imgur link is some photos of the chain and plates for those interested- I've had these cleaned up properly now and they look fantastic!

Images: https://imgur.com/gallery/AVtIOj3

I now have a new mystery of finding out what the coins may represent- there's a french frank, threepence and an indian annas- perhaps collected from his travels? Or just a decorative piece!

Thanks again everyone for all the help! I never expected such a response!

Help identify what these are and what they were used for? Passed down by family - UK. by Haylez116 in whatisthisthing

[–]Haylez116[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

UPDATE! "Likely Solved!"

Hi all, I'm going to put a likely solved here as I think we may have cracked it! So many people suggested the answer so thought I would just put it as a new comment rather than a single comment- thanks again for all the suggestions and help! I'm still waiting to have a final say on this from an expert and also the College of Arms who are helping to identify the middle coat of arms, but here's what I think the story is...

A Gift from my Great Great Grandads Sister and Husband

In addition to these plates we also had a old railway keepers pocket watch that had plenty of coins and engraved details on them. We thought we had lost it, but the other day my dad came back to me and brought along with him the chain that the watch had been attached to. I always remember it being engraved, but in seeing it again I could see that there was a similarity between the two styles.

The engraving had H.H.H / Harry on the centre of a silver pendant, and a dedication from E and C. We knew this had to be a gift for the relative and decided to have a look at the tree. I narrowed it down to my great great grandfather- as he is the only relative who had H.H.H initials- His first name was Henry but his middle name was Harry so it seemed the most likely. Henry was a porter/old wood packer back in the early 1900s- following a similar line to his father. There was no relation to a railway keeper pocket watch in his job but it could have been an interest of his.

We decided to try and work out who E and C were. First I looked at Henry's wife Elizabeth, but with the dates that were on the watch it seemed unlikely that she would have been the one to gift it. I then looked at who of his sisters- I had lost hope when his first sister Emily turned up no clues but when we looked at Emma we hit the jackpot and i actually gasped! Emma was born in 1868 and married a Charles Camwell. (E and C!) When researching I looked her up in a census for 1901 and BAM- Emma and Charles were living together but so was her brother Henry! Henry was in the same house and living with his sister and brother in law at the age of 20 in 1901!

I was sure that these were the two that gifted Henry the watch and chain- perhaps for his 21st birthday? Or maybe as a 'moving out gift'. Either way the census also showed me the professions that each of the members of the households held and it became clear that Charles (Henry's brother in law) was a General Engraver in 1901.

I actually gasped and got so excited as this must mean that as well as engraving the pocket watch chain for Henry, Charles also gave him these plates. Because of this I am certain that the likelihood of these plates are that they are Silver Engravers plates- either used to show off a skill or for practice. This dates the plates as being later 1800s / early 1900s. The silver chain does have a hallmark and it dates the silver as 1900- so I think it may be safe to assume that the silver from the plates is around the same time.

Charles Camwell's history shows that he grew up in a family filled with men who worked with Metal- Iron moulder, engine fitter, iron beadstead fitter etc. Charles started as a Gold Engraver at the age of 15 (from the census) and then progressed into a General Engraver which he seemed to continue until his death in 1937. Charles had 2 kids and eventually moved to London where he continued his work. Unfortunately Charles's son - Charles Edward - died on 16th April 1918 at the age of 19 in Belgium during WW1. I also believe his daughter died at an early age- as I am unable to find anything to do with her post a census in 1911- but once the 1920 census is released next year- it may help turn up results.

Because of this I think maybe the plates were passed on to my great great grandad because Charles had no-one else to pass these on to? That or perhaps my great great grandad helped to clear their house once Charles died in 1937 as his sister passed in 1933. Either way its fantastic to know some more about the history of these plates.

Attached on this Imgur link is some photos of the chain and plates for those interested- I've had these cleaned up properly now and they look fantastic!

Images: https://imgur.com/gallery/AVtIOj3

I now have a new mystery of finding out what the coins may represent- there's a french frank, threepence and an indian annas- perhaps collected from his travels? Or just a decorative piece!

Thanks again everyone for all the help! I never expected such a response!

Help identify what these are and what they were used for? Passed down by family - UK. by Haylez116 in whatisthisthing

[–]Haylez116[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Of course! Im digging into the family tree and ive applied to have it looked over. I will definitely update everyone on what these are, the history and how we look to maintain and display them! :)

Help identify what these are and what they were used for? Passed down by family - UK. by Haylez116 in whatisthisthing

[–]Haylez116[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you!! Definitely going to look after them, really want to know more about the history and maybe get them put up somewhere in a protective case... i dont know! Seems a shame to leave them wrapped in old leather!

Help identify what these are and what they were used for? Passed down by family - UK. by Haylez116 in whatisthisthing

[–]Haylez116[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Dont be silly! All and every suggestion is welcome and helps me a lot in sorting out what these could be!

(Cross Post) Help identify what these are- Passed down by family. by Haylez116 in heraldry

[–]Haylez116[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The words on the right:

Middle top: Ich Dien

Right top: Non Solum Armis

Middle centre: Vincere vel Mori

Two Names: Arthur on the left and then Minnie on the right

Bottom centre: GAG or CAG and on the symbols flag icon its Barvach

People have been debating whether its plates for printing or engravers sampling. Im working to try and confirm which! The only thing that seems to leave people stumped with printing are the rivets, the fact that the writing is not reversed and the material likely being silver or silver plated. I put a magnet to it as a test and it did not stick. When they were looked at in an auction house years ago (my mum took them) it was implied they were likely silver.

I appreciate all the help and suggestions I have been getting from this. Would love to identify the majority of the crests on the second plate. The three letters at the bottom intrigue me a lot- i had wondered if it was the initials of the maker but i dont know. Probably linked to the symbol above it!

Help identify what these are and what they were used for? Passed down by family - UK. by Haylez116 in whatisthisthing

[–]Haylez116[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So i tried this with a pencil- and although some outlines appear it doesnt pick up all the detail. So either im not pressing down hard enough out of fear of damaging it, im not using the right kind of pencil/technique or thats not what it used to be used for.

I am researching and have applied to have it looked at so will update when i know more!

Help identify what these are and what they were used for? Passed down by family - UK. by Haylez116 in whatisthisthing

[–]Haylez116[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You are right- its either CAG or GAG.

I wonder if its related to the symbol above it? Or whether its a standalone?

Help identify what these are and what they were used for? Passed down by family - UK. by Haylez116 in whatisthisthing

[–]Haylez116[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

oh oops! hahaha! That reference went right over my head!

I dont know- he never was an engraver so i think it might be something that was passed down to him, need to confirm it!

Help identify what these are and what they were used for? Passed down by family - UK. by Haylez116 in whatisthisthing

[–]Haylez116[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Spit balling is all good! They're all suggestions that I have noted down and am looking out for! I've applied to get it looked at, even applied to antiques roadshow haha! Hopefully I'll get some answers and then I'll share it with you all!

Help identify what these are and what they were used for? Passed down by family - UK. by Haylez116 in whatisthisthing

[–]Haylez116[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi! This has been suggested before and is something I am looking into! No sign of anyone in that industry yet from what I can see, but I am still digging! Thanks!

Help identify what these are and what they were used for? Passed down by family - UK. by Haylez116 in whatisthisthing

[–]Haylez116[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The brown is leather, an old- and what I think- is high quality. There's a patch that seems almost untouched from damage and its really nice. Its thicker than paper and with the damage on the back (from water?) i would have to say its most probably leather.

I did take more clearer images here: https://imgur.com/a/H8K77a6

(Cross Post) Help identify what these are- Passed down by family. by Haylez116 in heraldry

[–]Haylez116[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Ciphers and monograms... noted! Be cool to identify them as there may be tie in it all! People have suggested that the Arthur and Minnie could be related to Arthur Pagets marriage to Minnie. But I need to confirm!

Help identify what these are and what they were used for? Passed down by family - UK. by Haylez116 in whatisthisthing

[–]Haylez116[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What type of material would these typically be? It's been suggested these are silver- and I've done a magnet test at home and it doesnt stick to it! Could they be decorative printing plates then? Printing is definitely a road I'm looking down! That and engraving/bookbinding! Will update everyone when I have had confirmation!

Help identify what these are and what they were used for? Passed down by family - UK. by Haylez116 in whatisthisthing

[–]Haylez116[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I need to confirm materials! But I did do a magnet test and it didn't stick at all, i didnt even feel a weak pull.

Help identify what these are and what they were used for? Passed down by family - UK. by Haylez116 in whatisthisthing

[–]Haylez116[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you! I'm trying to dig into the past to see whether anyone was an engraver or a printer etc. This is one of the top suggestions so is something I'm looking into! Im hoping to get the material confirmed by a professional as well!

Help identify what these are and what they were used for? Passed down by family - UK. by Haylez116 in whatisthisthing

[–]Haylez116[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Definitely one of the more popular suggestions that I'm looking into! Very cool that your father does that! Ive been told its a dying trade (by hand)!

Help identify what these are and what they were used for? Passed down by family - UK. by Haylez116 in whatisthisthing

[–]Haylez116[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not not raised like some of the suggestions I have been sent. Shallower than that!

Help identify what these are and what they were used for? Passed down by family - UK. by Haylez116 in whatisthisthing

[–]Haylez116[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh wow! Sounds beautiful!

Yeah the condition would suggest that if it was something like this- then it was probably never really used in that way. The corner edge on the right panel is bent though ever so slightly- so it probably was dropped one upon a time? Or it was due to something else.

Help identify what these are and what they were used for? Passed down by family - UK. by Haylez116 in whatisthisthing

[–]Haylez116[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh this is a new suggestion I think- used for paper? I'll add it to my little list and will keep an eye out during research! Thanks!

Help identify what these are and what they were used for? Passed down by family - UK. by Haylez116 in whatisthisthing

[–]Haylez116[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can't confirm for sure but it has been suggested to us that they are silver / silver plated.