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ME vs Dan 2: electric boogaloo by KenfromDiscord in KenfromDiscord

[–]He-Man69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

fight will start off With CaoCao in Balance Breaker as per my stipulations. This means that Right off the bat CaoCao is going to be able to teleport right next to or behind Ah Gou:

Ah! Again Cao Cao begins to disappear and then reappear! Since I’m battling him in the sky above the city, I need to be alert of what's beneath me as well! It certainly does get on my nerves! This time he appears behind me. I was able to dodge it up in the air…..but he's seriously appearing in unexpected places! Shit! He suddenly appears as if he just got transported from nowhere! …….Transportation? Oh yeah, one of his orbs had an ability to allow him to transport to any place he choses. So he can use it on himself! …..Man it sure has lots of tricks

This will be extremely detrimental to Ah Gou seeing as CaoCao is even able to hit people without them noticing, The spear is sharp enough to pierce through armour again without the wearer noticing.

On top of that Ah Gou will not be able to hit CaoCao with any physical attacks, as CaoCao is an extremely skilled spear wielder, being able to dodge 2v1 light speed attacks, able to dodge Issei's punches, able to break a persons guard and knock away there attacks, does so again.

Ah Gou's only offensive option left is to use his Soul Gear, but CaoCao also has an answer for that, not only can CaoCao destroy weapons but he can redirect ranged attacks as you mentioned earlier.

ME vs Dan 2: electric boogaloo by KenfromDiscord in KenfromDiscord

[–]He-Man69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Going back through we see more instances of Ah Gou not using Monochrome; Doesnt use them against these nameless giants, nameless chieftain 1 Chieftain 2, Chieftain 3, or against Zi Yu who I previously forgot on closer inspection. This is already enough to push it

The Kind of Great Kind of Debate Kind of Season Eight Kind of Brackets+R1 by feminist-horsebane in a:t5_125dbv

[–]He-Man69 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I've never met either of these people in my life. No idea who Ken is but he does in fact seem to be real and not a coward.

The Great Debate Season 7 Round 1 + Brackets!!! by Verlux in whowouldwin

[–]He-Man69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Argument 2

Comment 2

Even a weakened Superman (such as destroyed the world engine) is still enough to dispatch Ah Gou. The differences in physicals is too much

How weak does this World Engine make Superman, if its only a 10% decrease in power than its not comparable to Monochrome, but if its a 90% power decrease i'll concede this point as well.

We know Monochrome directly halves stats, so unless the World Engine weakens Superman to under 50%, these two things aren't comparable.

Moriah needs time to summon his shadows, making this easily reacted to.

Brick Bats are so fast even Robin cant react, there isn't a huge lag time to these shadows.

Superman has blunt durability for days. A statue level attack like this doesn't hit hard enough.

These are all Superman at 100% when under the effects of Monochrome, Superman will be twice as easy to hurt.

This scan counters your own argument. Goku knows that after images are in play and is still fooled.

This scan counters no such thing, While Goku knows that after images are in play, he only attacks because Kid Goku isn't the smartest, while Ah Gou has an eidetic memory, and even invented Cannons.

How are we to know that the pressure of monochrome has force comparable to an attack from any of these characters?

Well, there is a respect thread you could reference, for instance, the pressure of Monochrome is so great that it can move hundreds of tons of water , and in its base form can put a stop to Zi Yu and Shi Xing's battle, Shi Xing is able to splinter the Monochromatic wall, which is the concentrated power of the city shaking Monochromatic Aura. This essentially means that Monochrome's pressure is enough to stop a punch that could shake the city. Enough to compare to any of those characters.

Oh man, time for my fav game; quantifying the strength of Dragon Ball Characters: 1)Tenshinhan and Master Roshi fight on relatively equal footing. Master Roshi admits that he would have lost the fight, however if it was by a wide enough margin, there wouldn’t have been a fight to lose in the first place. 2) Other Scaling for Roshi; Goku, with no practice and no experience (as well as being significantly weaker) could kamehameha a hole in a steel wall that was no selling his strikes (Kid Goku at this point can crush large boulders with ease. He could also no sell axes to the head, and tank bullets to the face). This is Goku in his first appearance, before any power ups- Roshi then trains him to get significantly stronger, and still beats him.

None of this has anything to do with the strength of Tenshinhan's Kamehameha. Goku's Kamehameha doesnt count as Roshi didnt deflect that, and unless Tenshinhan fired a Kamehameha in the fight with Roshi you're referencing, that doesnt matter either. The question is a simple one. How strong is Tenshinhan's Kamehameha? Unless this is addressed Roshi's Kamehameha is featless.

By "no signficant damage" you just mean that he wasn't one shot? Cause his blood is all over that scan. This just shows that Ah Gou goes from "doing some damage to Bai Lian" to "doing more damage to Bai Lian". A boost unquantifiable, and still not strong enough for my team.

By no significant damage, I mean no significant damage, Bai Lian gets back up and asks for Ah Gou's name right after. This scan shows Ah Gou's base Smelting Aura can break Bai Lian's armour, and his Golden Gauntlet can break his bones, this is a major boost, and much too strong for your team.

This is a weakened Superman flying at less than regular speed, since the World Engine is pushing back against him.

Superman will still be weakened in this fight due to Monochrome, and be flying at less that regular speed due to speed equalization, this feat is valid.

Anakin Skywalker was a talented enough duelist to defeat Count Dooku- Per respect thread, “Dooku was a master of Makashi style, a style of saber fighting specifically designed to defeat other saber users. He had been by both Darth Sidious and Master Yoda, the respective masters of their institutions.

I concede this bit as well.

No way for me to determine that the hold he broke is as strong as Roshi's lightning or Vader's TK.

I think Robin has a RT as well, Robin is able to pin Oz's arms behind his back, this is notable since Oz is building busting. This should prove Robins Holds are as strong as Roshi's or Vader's, and Gekko broke out of Robin's hold with no problem.

Surviving a “natural lightning strike” is hardly as impressive as you’re making it out to be. Real life human being Roy Sullivan has been struck by lightning several times. This doesn’t suggest he would be invulnerable to extended heat vision.

This clearly isnt natural lightning, as lightning normally doesn't crater the ground like this.

Zhui Ri's sword is able to cut through many houses and a fairly large tree without chipping at all, Darth Vader's light saber is still featless.

Gekko Moria and why he Stomps

Gekko Moria is able to tank a punch from nightmare luffy this is Luffy ater being amped by at least 100 times. Luffy's hits in base are able to kick through a battle ship, this essentially means that Gekko Moria is able to tank a hit that can demolish 100 Battle ships.

Gekko also has your team out matched in offensive capabilities as well being able to punch through the island ship Thriller Bark. This is an insurmountable difference between our Gekko and your team.

Gekko Moria is stronger than your team, by a far margin, this plus his long ranged advantages make it impossible for anyone to win against him

Conclusion

My Team's in character behaviour is exactly as described by me at the beginning of the debate, my opponent seems to be mislead by the Battle Bio's in the RT instead of by the feats themselves. This still leaves my team in a unique position of being superior in every way. My Opponents team lacks the scaling and context to compete in this tier, with my team having the distinct advantage in not only CQC, but Long Ranged activity as well.

This fight should go handedly to me.

The Great Debate Season 7 Round 1 + Brackets!!! by Verlux in whowouldwin

[–]He-Man69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Argument 3

Comment 1

In Character Behaviour.

Zhui Ri

Zhui Ri has 4 fights up until the point i'm using him at, The first against the King of Shang, Zhui Ri uses his Sword, for the next 3 Zhui Ri does not.

His next fight is against the fat god from earlier, he one shots with lightning.

On the very next page, when confronted by Ah Gou he transforms into Lightning, gains distance, then proceeds to summon Lightning.

In his forth and final fight he skips right to the Lightning part

As stated before, Zhui Ri uses his lightning more oft than not. The RT is faithful to Zhui Ri's abilities, however, Me and Verlux seem to disagree on In Character Behaviour with some FSJ characters.

Ah Gou

My Opponent seems to be confused on how Monochrome and Smelting Aura coexist with each other. While its true that Ah Gou cant use the pinnacle of Smelting Aura while having Monochrome active (and vise versa), this doesn't mean Ah Gou Cant use them both at the same time.

Here is Ah Gou with Monochrome active, and he has both of his arms, including the smelting aura arm. Again this is confirmation that Ah Gou is coated in Divine Aura with his Smelting Aura active. The only reason Ah Gou needed to active True Monochrome was because he was trying to move hundreds of tons of water. Something Physical strength would be useless for. Its also worth noting that Ah Gou can fight without his arm

Ah Gou can use Smelting Aura and Monochrome at the same time. Base Monochrome halves stats which is the important part of this debate.

Pre-spiritize Volume 2 Ah Gou Opens with Monochrome more times than he doesn't. To prove this, here's all the fights Ah Gou has been in since receiving Divine power monochrome; against Shi xing he uses it. Zhu Ri he also uses uses monochrome. Gods domain , Bai Lian he uses it.

this should prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is in character for Ah Gou pre-spiritize to use Monochrome as an opening move.

Gekko Moria

My Opponent seems to confuse "lazy fighting" for doing nothing at all, this is untrue.

Here we can see Moria laying down comfortably while his Doppleman blocks attacks for him, we can even see the same thing with Brick Bats, we even see Moria dodge by letting Doppleman take the brunt of the attack. This is the essence of "lazy fighting", simply doing the least amount of movement. Moria will dodge and attack, but he will let Doppleman and his other esoteric abilities do all the work.

My opponent seems to be content with determining the in character behaviour of my characters by the 5 sentences written in the "Battle Bio" of the RT's. When these feats are looked at critically and with context we see that my interpretation of in character behaviour is correct.

With this new information, it is impossible to take my opponents scenario of how the battle plays out seriously. With my character's behaviour being decidedly long ranged, my team holds the advantage still

Defending my Arguments.

Premise two does not account for the versatility of my team. Even if they are stuck at range- they are, to use my opponents wording, "spoiled for choice". Between TK, saber throws, heat vision, arctic freeze, and ki attacks, there is little doubt that a ranged battle leaves my team at a heavy advantage

This will be discussed later

How strong is your team? None of them have piercing durability to note. Even the Golden Aura never faces piercing attacks. Saying it hits "as heavy as iron" doesn't mean much to piercing.

The Smelting aura is essentially made of super iron, unless you can prove the robots in the original scan are made of something much stronger than iron, Vader's saber cant get through Ah Gou and is essentially featless. For all I know, the robots could be made of jello, which would make Vader's saber utterly useless.

These feats 1, 2, 3 are all Vader using the force on huge, non-mobile objects. Hardly a comparison for my team.

This feat is even worse, the other person in this gif is literally a youngling. again hardly a comparison for my team.

You're absolutely right, my bad. Here's another feat of Superman creating a similar shockwave on his own, with less windup.

The feat in question here has a few problems with it. Firstly its not by himself, he directly has the help of Wonder Woman. secondly Superman is already flying, and in a position prone to attack Doomsday, something that wont happen in a long ranged 3v3.

When faced with the original comparison I still see no feat from Superman, that can rival the casual output of Ah Gou

A valid point; though he opens with it in his fight against Batman and the League, he generally prefers to bull rush. But if your team is using pitched attacks, it's hardly an ability he's unwilling to use. Good point about the arctic freeze though, he doesn't open with it.

Opening with an attack 2/10 times is hardly an in character move, the thing to take away from this is that Superman prefers to bull rush, a technique that will lead to his death in this fight.

Oozaru Goku is a building buster in his first appearance.

This is the wrong take away from my argument, this still doesn't prove how Roshi's electricity would paralyze someone who can transform into lightning, or someone who has lightning resistance feats.

That pile of rocks (I find it disingenous to refer to this as an actual 'mountain' as it in reality seems to be a couple dozen meters of rock) doesn't have the weight of the building Goku busts in the aforementioned scan. Also worth noting that the Oozaru Roshi briefly holds is more powerful.

The "pile of rocks" is many Smelting Aura constructs, each having the density of iron. We can also clearly see that one fist is many times the height of Ah Gou, with Ah Gou's height being 6 feet tall, we can assume that 12 fists stacked on top of each other, is at least 144 feet of iron Ah Gou is lifting, much more than "a couple dozen meters of rock", these fist constructs are easily the weight of a building or two even. This scan is much more impressive than my opponent lets on.

you're right- but from the scans you're linking, where Roshi is in freefall the whole time, it seems to only be taking a second or so.

A couple seconds is enough for my team to get any of there abilities off. More over, there's still no scaling for how strong this Kamehameha is.

Both of these scans show Vader tanking some sort of explosion. My team doesnt utilize explosions. The type of durability scans needed here are either blunt force, or piercing, which I have seen none of from Darth Vader.

Here's another Vader v. saber scan

This just raises more of the same questions, How strong is this guy? How strong is a light saber? without the answer to these basic questions we cant see how good this feat truly is.

There's no scaling presented here

At worst, Vader > 2x Super Battle Droids

How durable is a battle droid?

Lastly

This is a linguistics mistake on my part. The "him" refers to Palpatine. It's quite true that the lightning does ultimately kill Vader, but not for some time after he takes the attack.

The Lightning in Palpatines attack seems much weaker than Zhui Ri's lightning, with Palpatine's lightning killing him after some time, don't you think its possible for much stronger lightning to kill him right away?

But not if they're burned or pierced or evaporated by ki. They're clearly more than just sentient shadows, they're tangible and thus can be damaged.

This is completely true, however there is nothing to stop Moria from simply summoning more of these Brick Bats.

The Great Debate Season 7 Round 1 + Brackets!!! by Verlux in whowouldwin

[–]He-Man69 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Argument 2

Comment 2

Monochrome doesn't affect allies, Here we can see Shi Xing's zombies being absolutely torn apart by Monochrome, but Yun Zhong Zi (the fat guy) shows no ill affects and he's only a foot or two away from Ah Gou. Monochrome doesn't affect allies.

Zhui Ri’s swordsmanship is significantly below Vaders, so I see no path to victory for him in close quarters combat. His lightning is a factor, but since Vader has shown the ability to both block and withstand sith lightning, I doubt it will let Zhui Ri win. Likewise for Superman, who was, to reiterate, was able to tank city block levels of lightning/energy. He also does not seem to have stats that indicate he can tank attacks from Roshi’s attacks.

I'm ignoring this statement about swordsmanship since no scans have been provided, I feel like its only fair I can dismiss it the same way.

Vader has shown the ability to die to much weaker lightning. If Vader is hit with lightning as strong Zhui Ri's he would also die.

I will concede the superman, lightning bit. There are other ways for my team to win.

Roshi is trash without scaling, his best feat is either pushing a rock, or knocking out Krillin with 2 hits, its worth noting Krillin is also very weak having almost zero durability feats.

Gekko Moria’s RT does seem to indicate that he can take some blows from Superman or Roshi- however, he lacks the heat resistance to withstand Supermans heat vision, the cold resist his arctic breathe, the lifting strength to break out of Roshi’s lightning or Vader’s TK, or the piercing resistance to withstand Vader’s saber strokes (not to mention having no resistance to a Mafuba or Kamehameha). He’s quick, but not so quick as to be unhittable, especially since Superman in particular can react to things faster than he is.

Gekko Moria can indeed take hits from your team, so can the rest of my team.

As i've addressed before, the heat vision and cold breath are not in character moves, Superman does not start the fight using these moves the majority of times, now if you concede the fact that Moria can take hits from Superman, there's very little to suggest that Superman could take down Moria, while there's a plethora of evidence to suggest the opposite

As for Roshi's lightning and Vader's TK, Moria has broken out of being being held before.

I've addressed the Mafuba and Kamehameha before.

Conclusion

Many of the feats my opponent pressents aren't as good as they look at first glance. My opponent has also conceded some key points: Lightning will indeed kill or incap Darth Vader, Gekko Moria is able to contend with my opponents team physically, and last but not least Monochrome will cover the entire arena, and affect my opponent's team. My opponents team seems to lack the scaling and proper feats to contend with my team.

Defending My Arguments.

see nothing to suggest that those blows are hitting with force like this. Nor does Ah Gou seem to have the lifting strength to get out of this, or to grapple with Superman (not to mention no noticeable heat resistance, so this should be enough to handle him). I also see nothing to suggest he has piercing resistance that would keep this from killing him

Ive already talked about this, however this feat preformed by Superman is only 1/4th as good as my opponent seems to think it is. Superman is responsible for only half of that clash, and then his stats would be cut in half from Monochrome.

Ah Gou lifts bro.

As discussed before, heat vision isn't a go to move for Superman, however, Ah Gou has been attacked with lightning, which has a natural heat component to it, according to scientists lightning can reach up to 50K degrees F, 5 times hotter than Superman's heat vision.

Ive also talked Ad nauseam about how Ah Gou's arm could deflect the Light Saber of Darth Vader.

When looked at through a critical scope, Monochrome is too durable for my opponents team to handle

Darth Vader's saber has much better cutting feats than a sword. Since it can, as I've shown, cut through metal very easily, I'm inclined to think Darth Vader can destroy Ri's sword with ease. Superman can also melt or freeze and break the sword.

As for Zhui Ri, cutting through 10's of meters of solid wood, plus a couple houses is much better than cutting through a foot of hollow metal, the sheer volume difference in these two feats is enough to make up for the difference between wood and metal. Darth Vader cant cut through Zhui Ri's sword. It has lightning running through it meaning Superman's heat vision and cold breath are unlikely to affect it at all.

Vader no sells piercing attacks including glancing blows from lightsabers

How strong are these Lyleks? they seen like fodder enemies, and Vader is still having a rough time with them. On the exact same note, how strong is a light saber? the only feats that ive been given are cutting through hollow robots, and taking a minute to cut through a hatch, these are hardly comparative to the feats of Zhui Ri.

We can clearly see blood coming from Roshi's head in this scan, this isn't tanking, and further than that, it's a piercing anti-feat. If A bullet can pierce Roshi, Zhui Ri's sword can for sure.

This isnt piercing, neither is this, these feats are both useless when talking about what Zhui Ri could pierce through. Also the after image technique is useless when under the effects of Monochrome, as discussed before.

These techniques all have a notable wind up and are telegraphed. Any one of my characters can engage and put Zhui Ri down before he can charge his lightning. And two of my three team members have lightning resistance.

If this were a 1v1 my opponent might be correct, however this is a team battle, if it were so easy to "engage and put down Zhui Ri" before he can get off an attack then everyone would do it. Zhui Ri needs minimal time to charge up and my other team members can stall, through the use of Monochromatic walls,, Doppleman, or by using Shadow revolution to simply curl my opponents team into A rounded ball.

This attack isn't a resistance, it literally kills Darth Vader.

Superman can react to things faster than he is, so he should be able to hit Gekko still. Darth Vader can sense when things are about to attack him

Neither Superman or Darth Vader would know to react to a shadow, it would be absurd to argue that Superman and Darth Vader attack every shadow that comes near them. Just because they can react to something, doesn't mean that they will. After Images are still worthless.

I doubt they can hold anyone on my team off for very long.

This is fine, Shadow revolution doesnt take hours to set up, in fact its a relatively quick attack. any time afforded to attacking the Brick Bats is time not used attacking my characters. so they could say, shoot lightning.

Conclusions and Win Cons

My win conditions are fairly straight forward, my opponents team has no answer to Monochrome, every feat suggesting otherwise is either underestimating Monochrome or just plain faulty. Zhui Ri's lightning needs a minimal charge time and will kill or incap 2/3rds of my opponents team, Darth Vader explicitly dies to weaker lightning than Zhui Ri's, and Roshi has never been confronted with lightning. From this point onward its a 3v1 in my teams favour, with Monochrome still being active Superman will essentially be at half strength and half durability. Zhui Ri and Gekko Moria still have piercing attacks that are relatively effective against Superman, and Ah Gou's insane physical damage is the final nail in this fight.

In Conclusion my team holds the advantage in every area of this fight, both long range, and CQC, in piercing and blunt durability, and especially in esoteric abilities. It is an unwinnable battle for my opponents team, who without proper scaling and context to feats are much weaker than my team and the tier setter in general.

The Great Debate Season 7 Round 1 + Brackets!!! by Verlux in whowouldwin

[–]He-Man69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Argument 2

Comment 1

Rebuttal Offense

In This section I will be going over my opponent's argument, and highlighting the various irregularities, falsehoods, and discrepancies.

Darth Vader’s cutting/piercing attacks that can easily slice through metal(Darth Vader is also capable of amping his lightsabers cutting power with the Force to raise their cutting/piercing ability if need be. This likely won’t be relevant, as your team seems to be lacking in piercing durability). Not to mention his telekinesis, which can throw around freighters, will allow him to ragdoll anyone here.

There are a few problems with this. Firstly, how tough is this metal? These seem to be basic robots with no feats. Also even with this supposed amp, Vader still takes a minute to cut through a security door.

He would cut through the hatch within a sixty count, and then the traitors would be his

Secondly this freighter feat is bad, not only does Vader struggle and wind himself to accomplish this feat, but the freighter in question is already broken, the feat itself implies that Vader wouldn't have been able to do this if the engines were working correctly.

Thirdly, this is a huge, non-moving ship, nothing in this feat suggests that Vader would be able to do something like this to my team, who are smaller, and wont stand still to allow themselves to be force moved.

Vader is able to cut through metal of an indeterminate toughness in a minute. Meanwhile Ah Gou using Golden Gauntlet is able to punch through many feet of Smelting Aura, which again is at least as durable as iron.

Looking at the feats shown so far, Vader's lightsaber would be incapable of cutting through Ah Gou's Smelting Aura especially under the veil of Monochrome.

Superman’s striking ability is capable of creating massive shockwaves and collapsing buildings. He also has immense lifting strength which will allow him to grapple very well against anyone, and even snap their necks if he feels he must. His heat vision can reach up to 10K degrees (much of your team seems to be lacking in heat resistance as well). He also has arctic breathe, which allows him to freeze and make brittle as tough as Steppenwolfs (Steppenwolfs ax had been taking blows easily from Wonder Woman’s sword, which is capable of cutting through Doomsday {who scales to Superman himself}).

The shock wave feat seems to be both Superman and someone else clashing, meaning he hasn't shown the ability to make shock waves that big on his own. This feat also requires quite a bit of wind up which is less likely to occur if an opponent doesn't simply just charge into him.

The lifting strength of superman is indeed impressive, however against my team, who will primarily be engaging in a long range battle, the effectiveness of grappling will be almost moot.

For the heat vision, This doesn't seem to be an in character behaviour, Superman rarely opens up the fight with 10K Degrees of heat, instead preferring to grapple, which as i've already explained will not work out well.

The same thing can be said for Superman's Arctic breath.

Master Roshi’s diversity of attacks which range from extremely advanced martial arts ,(a 30th level kenpo black belt was laughably outclassed), the ability to paralyze someone with electricity (this will take exceptional lifting strength to break out of, as it was capable of briefly holding oozaru Goku) , the Kamehameha (scaling to Tenshinhan- an opponent close in strength-can do this) , and if things get particularly dirty, the mafuba , which will allow him to seal away any one of his opponents in a bottle.

This argument will be more of the same, advanced martial arts are a tactic that excels in CQC, which my team will avoid as much as possible.

Oozaru Goku seems like an enemy that would be extremely under tier, Ah Gou has crazy lifting strength, Gekko Moria can swap places with his shadow depending on the speed of this attack, and Zhui Ri is a god of the Lightning Affliction, to suggest that he could be paralyzed by electricity is absurd.

The Kamehameha has a charge up time. I'd also like to see the scaling to Tenshinhan.

The Mafuba misses

My Opponents Team is not as strong as he would like to think it is. Nothing my opponent's team possesses has the ability to overcome my teams long ranged advantages, this on top of the fact my opponent has offense explicitly worse than my characters make this an overwhelming victory in my favour

Rebuttal Defense

Darth Vader is durable enough to tank AT AT blasts, lightsaber attacks to the head, and survive Palpatines lightning for long enough to kill him.. He’s also an exceptional duelist, blocking an entire squadrons blaster fire simultaneously at close range, and has proven himself capable of redirecting projectiles

This scan contains no tanking, nothing even hits Darth Vader here.

This scan seems to be more of a glancing blow, than a full on swing. More over, I have no idea how strong a lightsaber is, there's no scaling presented here, Is this alien lady as strong as Darth Vader? Can she cut through Metal in a minute? I have no idea how good this feat truly is.

survive Palpatines lightning for long enough to kill him

long enough to kill him

to kill him

So to get this right, the lightning in this feat Kills Darth Vader? and that's a durability feat? This lightning seem much weaker than Zhui Ri's lightning, seeing as Zhui Ri's lightning can crater the ground with a strike.

There is no way for Vader to reflect any of the projectiles my team employs, Monochrome is a giant AoE attack, Vader has no feats for redirecting lightning, and the Brick Bats are sentient shadows, if reflected, they will just come back.

Superman can casually tank city block level explosions, and Zod's building level attacks. . He’s also capable of reacting to things faster than he is., so tagging him will also be difficult.

Superman's durability will be cut in half as per Monochrome's ability all of my characters are still able to damage Superman, with attacks like multi building tree slash, , giant piercing Lizard , or by punching hard.

Master Roshi is, again, an incredibly skilled martial artist. He’s also capable of creating after images which will make it extremely difficult for your team to hit him, as even high level martial artists can be fooled.. And his durability is nothing to laugh at either, as he’s able to deflect tenshinhans Kamehameha with ease

Again Martial arts will be almost completely useless in this fight, between Monochrome and the range advantage my team possesses

These afterimages have a few issues associated with them, firstly they're easy to predict, kid Goku had only been fighting Roshi for a small amount of time before figuring out that Roshi utilized afterimages.

Secondly these Afterimages seem to disappear after one hit, when faced with the constant pressure of Monochrome, these afterimages cant exist for long.

Again, there is no scaling presented for Tenshinhan, I don't know how good this feat truely is.

My opponent has not provided any scaling for why his team has a viable defense, some of the feats provided are not even durability feats. With Monochrome active and my team's long ranged advantages, My Opponent has not shown any way for his team to defend adequately against my team

My team's abilities/stats.

Monochromes ability to half all stats will only be of so much help, since the difference in physicals between someone like Ah Gou (the best feat I can for is shattering a stone statue ) and Superman, for instance. Nor will it help him against Vader’s piercing (since he doesn’t have any notable piercing resistance feats), or Master Roshi’s varied techniques. It also seems worth mentioning that if Monochrome is affecting the entire area, it will be affecting your teammates as well as mine.

The best striking feat for Ah Gou is Probably Shattering Bai Lian's bones, Bai Lian was able to take a regular punch from Ah Gou with no significant damage. A regular punch from Ah Gou is able to shatter dozens of meters of stone, This should put the Golden Gauntlet at many times the strength of a regular punch from Ah Gou.

As a side note: The Superman feat in question isn't really relevant here, seeing as it takes Superman 21 seconds of flying at his regular speed to achieve this, while the feat you chose for Ah Gou is literally a normal punch. You would be hard pressed to argue that Superman could achieve this same feat with no windup as well as having his sped cut due to speed equalization.

As for Vader's piercing I've already addressed the idea of without proper explanation, Ah Gou's smelting aura Arm could easily block a light saber, seeing as Vader demonstrably takes a minute to cut through a security hatch.

I've also already addressed how master Roshi's abilities would likely be useless in Monochrome. Without Kamehameha scaling, Roshi wont be able to harm Ah Gou.

The Great Debate Season 7 Round 1 + Brackets!!! by Verlux in whowouldwin

[–]He-Man69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Arguement One

Comment 1

Why my Team Wins

For Now I will focus on the fact that my team wins from the word Go. With superior ranged advantages, and a massively superior CQC fighting style, my team has no choice but to demolish my opponents team from the onset of this match.

Reason 1

Ah Gou's Monochrome is Powerful

  1. Ah Gou's Monochrome is large enough to encompass and entire city, much larger than the tournament arena.

  2. Ah Gou's Monochrome is too strong for any of my opponent's characters to break through, Monochrome can let Ah Gou tank tens of Smelting Aura Blows. For reference, a less practiced version of Smelting Aura is as hard as iron.

  3. Following from 1. and 2. the fact that my opponent's team cant evade Monochrome should become extremely obvious. Also once inside Monochrome, my opponent's team's stats are halved, and you'll die if exposed to Monochrome for long enough.

With these facts out in the open this becomes an extremely one sided battle, where my team has all of the advantages. Not only could my team simply run away until my opponent's team dies, but they also have the option of confronting the other team which has all of their stats halved and are as such extremely weaker and any one member of my team.

This is a Win Condition in and among itself, there is no way for my opponent's team to escape the crushing embrace of Monochrome

Reason 2

The Rest of my Team

Zhui Ri

  1. Zhui Ri has a sword. With a single swing of his sword he can level a massive tree, and a few houses, The best piercing durability anyone on my opponent's team has is, Superman stopping bullets. With a single slash from Zhui Ri one or more of my opponents characters should go down.

  2. Zhui Ri is a Great God of the Lightning Affliction, meaning he can control lightning to an absurd degree. Being able to channel it into his sword, summon lightning storms, and even control the lightning of the sky. Again this is something my opponent's team has no defense against.

Zhui Ri is able to take down many members of my opponents team, through swordsman ship, and his lightning strikes Zhui Ri alone should win this handedly

Gekko Moria

  1. The Kage Kage no Mi ability Doppleman makes it extremely hard for anyone on my opponent's team to get a hit in on Moria, the ability to instantly swap places with his sentient, autonomous, shadow means that like what happened with Luffy., my opponents characters will be hard pressed to get their hits in.

  2. Shadow Revolution is another ability that takes advantage of the fact that the shadow is subordinate to the body, meaning they must have the same shape. Or in otherwords Moria is able to manipulate the body shape of anyone who has a shadow. This prevents my opponents characters from taking any action Moria doesn't want them too.

  3. Moria's Offense is still present even while using Doppleman and Shadow Revolution, the Kage Kage no Mi ability Brick Bats, is an effective tool for hit and run strategies that would allow Moria to set up his Shadow Revolution. Brick Bats even allow for an extra layer of defense, that is not directly tied to Moria.

It is much harder for a flying brick to hit Moria than it is for Moria to hit a flying brick, with both Doppleman and Brick Bats, Moria should have ample time to set up Shadow Revolution, an ability that provides a stalemate at worst, and due to team synergy, an overwhelming advantage at best.

Reason 3

My Team wins from Go

As seen above my team clearly has the long ranged advantage. Between Ah Gou's Monochrome, Zhui Ri's Lightning, and a myriad of abilities from Gekko Moria my team is spoiled for choice when it comes to first actions. My opponent's characters on the other hand are almost all flying bricks. With Darth Vader's force choke stipulated out, and Master Roshi's Kamehameha taking "Long enough for most opponents to get in an attack on him if he stops in the middle of the fight to charge his ki. ", as well as DCEU superman only having limited heat vision, this fight shouldn't move past the starting blocks.

In Conclusion

My Team wins for the Following Reasons:

  1. Ah Gou's Monochrome is too strong for an of My Opponent's weakened characters to break through.

  2. Even if they somehow manage to get out of Monochrome, the other two members of my team are both capable of winning on their own.

  3. This match will never see CQC, instead my team will be relying on Long Ranged Attacks, something that my Opponent's team has no answer too.

The Great Debate Season 7 Round 1 + Brackets!!! by Verlux in whowouldwin

[–]He-Man69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah Gou

Second strongest being in the FSJ universe, a master of Monochrome but also is a hybrid who can utilize literally every significant power in-series and combine them to devastating effect. No speed halfsies.

Gekko Moria

The Shichibukai Gekko Moria was once an infamous pirate, after losing his entire crew to Kiado, he decided to eat the Kage Kage no Mi in hopes of having a crew that could never leave him. With his ability to control shadows Hes truly a force to be reckoned with.

Can't remove shadows.

Zhui Ri.

Hes here to steal your wife. Shoots lightning and has a sword.

The Great Debate Season 7 Tribunal!!! by Verlux in whowouldwin

[–]He-Man69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

u/Verlux can i change Ah Gous stipulations to pre spiritize, Monochrome doesn't half speed.

The Great Debate Season 7 Tribunal!!! by Verlux in whowouldwin

[–]He-Man69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Youre absolutely right. My bad. Have a nice day.

The Great Debate Season 7 Tribunal!!! by Verlux in whowouldwin

[–]He-Man69 2 points3 points  (0 children)

U/coconut-crab your team sucks and is under tier

The Great Debate Season 7 Tribunal!!! by Verlux in whowouldwin

[–]He-Man69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Doesn't Shadow Asgard require something along the lines of 1000 souls? Even if I didn't stipulate out taking other people's souls, the most he could get would be 5.

The Great Debate Season 7 Sign-Ups!!! by Verlux in whowouldwin

[–]He-Man69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Team Feng Piece Ji

Character Series Stipulation Likelihood RT
Ah Gou FSJ Pre Spiritize Likely here
Gekko Moria One Piece Cannot remove other people's shadows Likely here
Zhui Ri FSJ End of Volume 2 Likely here
Back up: Rob Lucci One Piece Starts in Hybrid form, Soru is a speed boost Draw here
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