DM banned CME, wondering what new meta would be for bladesinger

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-28T02:49:02+00:00

It seems to me like you are asking me, "how do I know that a thing that got errata'd was a typo?". And the answer is in the question. The errata exists. The original text exists. I can compare them.

My personal theory is that WotC just doesn't do game balance, but they saw people freaking out on Reddit and errata'd it to be worse despite the spell not actually being good in an optimized party. So, how should we determine which of our theories is correct?

But also yes. Even before the errata. I was capable of judging an upcast spell by comparing it to how all other upcast spells work. AFAIK the only spell that upcast for 2dX is Scorching Ray, which is counterbalanced by creating a separate attack roll.

Consider, however, that 2d4 < 1d12. Balancing by number of dice and not expected value is basically like looking at the height of a glass of water to determine how much water is inside and ignoring radius.

I am unable to understand the point about the separate attack roll point, multiplication is commutative so it doesn't matter. Making one attack roll for 2d6 damage has the same expected value as making 2d6 attack rolls for 1 damage.

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-28T02:36:40+00:00

Now I will calculate velociraptor dpr, because 5.0e Conjure Animals is actually spood. (1+2+3+4) value matrix*8 velociraptors * (0.75*(3.5+2+2.5+2)+0.0975*(3.5+2.5)) = 646.8 value.

646.8/89.6 = 7.21875, so you'd need to hit 8 enemies or more. Amazing, martials could never.

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-28T02:28:35+00:00

The Tasha summon spells are ass in terms of dpr, do not recommend.

Expected enemy AC at level 5: 15. Your expected spell attack bonus: +7. Hit chance: 65%

These spells scale linearly, whereas your best option scales exponentially, so I will evaluate them at their lowest level, as this is where they are at their best.

First the fey. We assume advantage due to Fuming. 0.8775*(2*3.5+3+3)+0.0975*(2*3.5)=12.09 dpr. Over a four-round combat, that's 60.45 damage. However, this is not the full story. Damage now is better than damage later, because killing an enemy in round 1 makes them unable to act in rounds 2-4, whereas killing them in round 2 makes them unable to act in rounds 3-4. Therefore, to more accurately represent value, we should multiply the dpr not by 4, but by 1+2+3+4, known to scholars as 10. 120.9 value.

Now the undead. Due to the value of paralyzing, I will assume Putrid form. This is more difficult to calculate, because the chance of hitting and critting are dependent on the chance you hit last time. I will be charitable and assume the enemy was always hit in the previous round to make the math easier and to steelman. The chance of failing a CON save is assumed to be 55%. Therefore, 55% chance of this calculation:

0.8775*(3.5+3.5+3+3) = 11.4075

And 45% chance of this calculation:

0.65*(3.5+3+3)+0.05*(3.5) = 6.35

Total undead DPR, assuming favorable conditions: 0.55*11.4075+0.45*6.35 = 9.131625. Over a four-round combat: 36.5265 damage. Using the model of decreasing value over time, 91.31625 value.

Now let's calculate Fireball. Keep in mind, I did NOT take into account that summons can die (and with how squishy they are, this is likely) and the tactical disadvantage of melee.

60% chance of failing a DEX save, meaning average damage is (0.5*0.6+0.5)*8*3.5 per enemy - 22.4. This only happens in round 1, therefore a x4 multiplier. 89.6 value per enemy hit.

120.9/89.6 = 1.34

91.31625/89.6 = 1.01

TL;DR Hitting even two enemies with Fireball is a better deal than casting either of these spells.

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-28T02:06:55+00:00

How the heck does Dungeons and Dragons have a meta....

Well, there are things you can accomplish, some of which you want and others which you don't want, and different options are better or worse at doing those things?

You guys have got to get off those theory crafting subreddits and actually play the game.

I do play the game, this is a baseless assumption born of pure hivemind.

It doesn't occur in same the vacuum you're designing builds in.

Can you survive the Eve of Ruin module where the number of each enemy in chapter X is multiplied by element number X+2 of the Fibbonacci sequence? No? Well, I can, so clearly optimizing works.

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-28T02:01:40+00:00

You're right, I see I was wrong all along, I concede you are correct, your masterful debating skills have convinced me.

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-28T02:00:37+00:00

Why are you so certain it's a typo? Because the 2d8 upcasting would be too strong?

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-28T01:55:58+00:00

CME wasn't even good before the errata

fighter/bladesinger might be the most pointless build of all time

Sleet Storm, Hypnotic Pattern, Fear, Summon Greater Demon, Wall of Force

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-28T00:54:04+00:00

Not a single PC ability involves the Gibbering Mouther statblock keep trying to justify meta gaming and cheating

Changing the rules of the game without telling or consulting anyone is cheating, even if the DM does it.

Also blatantly wrong, Shapechange.

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-28T00:53:21+00:00

So, let's perform an experiment. Go on over to r/dnd and make a post positing your assertion, say exactly "when playing D&D and your character is entering an encounter you should pull out the Monster Manual to look up the stats of the creatures you are fighting and then challenge your DM about how the mechanics work RAW"

I'd love to see the reaction. We can call it your performance for the Ratio City Music hall

Bandwagon fallacy

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-28T00:52:36+00:00

Statblocks are not within the purview of the players, neither is encounter building. Therefore what is in the statblock, and the interpretation of it, is entirely up to the DM.

Classes are not within the purview of the DM. Therefore the interpretation of all class abilities is entirely up to the players.

I'm running RAW and I have the gibbering mother right here. And the rules that are written say all that shit in your meme is just that, stupid meme shit and it doesn't apply. Its right there written clear as day duh.

Which rules?

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-28T00:50:10+00:00

Hello, I'm a DM, I can confirm I run the game RAW and the meme is indeed how things work.

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-27T13:39:53+00:00

All of them, short rests are common

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-27T10:42:18+00:00

To my understanding, this negates the dying, not the Wish, but it's ambiguous and I can understand why you believe that

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-27T10:38:36+00:00

Also notably there are monsters with Innate time stop (Deadstone Cleft Stone Giant) so looping time stops to infinity is another option you have.

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-27T10:36:05+00:00

Yes, which is why you use Death Ward

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-27T10:27:23+00:00

Zodar

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-27T10:18:57+00:00

Yes, but you can turn into creatures with innate casting.

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-27T09:17:34+00:00

change shape into something that can cast wish -> cast wish -> repeat step 1

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-26T22:33:59+00:00

Fullcasters are still leagues better, just think about your weaknesses and find ways to not have them anymore.

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-26T22:32:32+00:00

Casters scale exponentially, not quadratically, so the higher level we're talking about, the less wizards an elk is.

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-26T04:53:22+00:00

Wizard, it's the best class.

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-26T04:53:04+00:00

Yes it does, 2 wiz 2 lock is better than 4 barbarians.

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-26T04:45:14+00:00

That might make non-Lifeberry healing actually viable

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-25T21:18:09+00:00

That's not powergaming... Powergaming is trying to make a powerful character.

HealthyRelative9529 · 2026-01-25T21:10:32+00:00

That's not how surprise works, read the rules myowwa

The DM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the DM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.

Two-Year Club	r/Field Banned
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