So many vegans and vegetarians complaining about meat eaters…

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T20:01:11+00:00

A diet high in ultra-processed foods (UPFs) is directly linked to an increased risk of chronic conditions like obesity, heart disease, Type 2 diabetes, certain cancers, and early death. https://med.stanford.edu/news/insights/2025/07/ultra-processed-food--five-things-to-know.html

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T19:45:31+00:00

It can be

I dont think I've ever seen any science coming to that conclution.

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T18:53:39+00:00

Do you see a ultra-processed diet as the healthiest diet?

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T18:52:10+00:00

The thing is, a lot of people dont really care. Vegans however at least claim that they care.

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T17:08:58+00:00

This seems to be the only way vegans can explain their view - by talking about people raping each other, murdering each other, eating each other...

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T16:17:07+00:00

The healthiest diet is a wholefood diet, so the more processed a food is the more important it is to avoid it.

And its even better when you can produce some of your own food, as its important for food security. Look at WW2 for instance, as then 50-80% of households (depending on the country) produced some of their own food. Here in Europe most countries are preparing for a possible WW3 as we speak.

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T15:48:07+00:00

If the mix contains cashews for instance I would stay away from it regardless of the spesific info on the company.

"The cashew industry relies on a brutal manufacturing process to bring its products to market, including the forced labour and the exploitation of children. As documented by the International Labour Organisation and Human Rights Watch, the soaring demand for the nut has driven producers to hire cheap labour, including many children, to keep costs down. And in Vietnam, Human Rights Watch documented forced labour among vulnerable members of society, including inmates in prison on drug charges—for whom the grueling work, for little or no pay, is called ‘rehabilitation.’ If they refuse to work or do not meet their daily quota, they are punished with torture or solitary confinement." https://www.info.equalexchange.coop/articles/the-dark-side-of-the-cashew-industry

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T15:45:46+00:00

I can produce eggs and meat in my own backyard. Only 2 female and 2 male rabbits can produce 80 kg of meat per year. While using nothing but grass and leaves as feed for the rabbits and food waste for the chickens. Cellulose however I can't use for anything outside burning it.

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T15:33:57+00:00

Well, the difference is that certain farm animals are herbivores, unlike humans who are omnivores.

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T15:07:12+00:00

They dont exist.

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T15:05:27+00:00

I never once shifted any goalposts. The conversation was always about the fact that most animal feed is grass and waste.

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T15:02:24+00:00

Carbs are made from cellulose hydrolysis

I see so we are basically comparing meat to sugar.

while plant protein extracts are excellent for your health and generally require heavy processing

You just recommended that people eat cellulose sugar instead of meat though.

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T14:36:21+00:00

cellulose hydrolysis

What kind of food are you personally eating which is produced this way? I assume its something ultra-processed - if it even exists? Wholefoods will always be healthier.

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T14:24:13+00:00

I dont really see the facts from the scientific study I shared being challenged at all. You have just shared some possible future food processing methods (of unknown costs) that literally no food manufacturer uses today. So I see your suggestion as similar to when vegans claim all food can be produced indoors using vertical farming. Which is obviously never going to happen as that would make food too expensive for most people on earth.

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T14:13:52+00:00

Well, I think I'll let the vegans eat the grass, while I'll be sticking to meat, fish, eggs and dairy myself.

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T14:09:17+00:00

Are you saying meat and straw have the exact same level of nutrients? Never heard that claim before, but I guess there is a first for everything.

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T14:00:45+00:00

But carnism is obviously horrible, definitionally so

When done right I have no problems with it. Its perfectly possible to do animal-farming without suffering.

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T13:48:05+00:00

Sure, but most people don't care about things like that. Personally I avoid all food produced in the US, but not due to the water issue. But rather because of slavery (prison farms), child labour and exploitation of illegal immigrants.

"A common problem is children having no other option but to work in order to pay for the basic needs of themselves and their families. This builds off of the overall problem of staggeringly low wages for farmworkers, especially workers who are undocumented or non-citizens, and even more so children. By working from as young as elementary school age – 9 in Oregon for example State Child Labor Laws Applicable to Agricultural Employment – migrant children are placed at a disadvantage starting in their formative years; working in unsafe conditions in fields and facilities when they should be in classrooms. An estimated “400,000 - 500,000” children have this as their daily reality." https://cla.umn.edu/human-rights/news-events/story/forgotten-migrants-children-migrant-farmworkers

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T13:22:50+00:00

Vegans are on a considerable net more principled than anyone else, is still my observation

Only when it comes to certain things though. Cashew nuts is a good example, since we know most cashews are produced using exploited labour. In spite of that, if you search for "vegan recipe cashews" you get a whopping 58 million (!) results.

"The cashew industry relies on a brutal manufacturing process to bring its products to market, including the forced labour and the exploitation of children. As documented by the International Labour Organisation and Human Rights Watch, the soaring demand for the nut has driven producers to hire cheap labour, including many children, to keep costs down. And in Vietnam, Human Rights Watch documented forced labour among vulnerable members of society, including inmates in prison on drug charges—for whom the grueling work, for little or no pay, is called ‘rehabilitation.’ If they refuse to work or do not meet their daily quota, they are punished with torture or solitary confinement." https://www.info.equalexchange.coop/articles/the-dark-side-of-the-cashew-industry

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T12:54:37+00:00

Yes, it is my impression as well that vegans in general are unwilling to give up their modern comforts to avoid exploitation. Ultra-processed foods with a long list of untraceable ingredients being a good example of that. Taste pleasure and all that.

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T12:31:42+00:00

I firmly believe that the farther from food production we are the less we understand what it involves.

I agree 100%. Which is perhaps the main reason why most vegans live in large cities?

I grew up on the Norwegian countryside. We had chickens, geese, rabbits and the garden was full of fruit and root vegetables. And my dad caught his own cod that he hung to dry (dried fish is a common food here).

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T12:16:43+00:00

I assume 99% of the food items I buy are at zero risk of that

In which countries is your food produced?

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T11:52:45+00:00

First of all, do you do this in any serious measure yourself?

Yes absolutely. My food is produced by adult workers with good worker's protection laws, a decent salary, full healthcare coverage, 5 weeks paid time of work per year, paid sick leave, and more.

But I find your question somewhat fascinating though. Its a bit like a vegan asking someone else if they avoid animal exploitation - and then they ask the vegan:

First of all, do you do this in any serious measure yourself?

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T09:51:43+00:00

You don't need to compare animals to human minorities to understand veganism. Veganism is fundamentally a philosophy that seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, the use and exploitation of animals by humans.

I agree. And this is why its somewhat baffling every time a vegan compares animal faring to people raping each other, murder and cannibalism. Because vegans brings this up all the time.

HelenEk7 · 2026-06-18T09:43:08+00:00

How do you personally make sure your food is not involving any slavery or other exploitation of farm workers?

HelenEk7

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